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Hi,

I am looking into digital cameras. Previously I owned a Canon Powershot
G3. After I sold that, my wife and I got a Powershot SD1000 as a gift.
Now I am looking around again for camera that I like.

At the time I got Powershot G3, it was considered a "Prosumer" camera.
Now, when I searched for a "prosumer camera", I get a listing of Digital
SLR cameras too. I am trying to stay with "point and shoot" although I
do love some of the SLR cameras that I found (which are out of my price
range now).

I do like the Canon Powershot G10. Considering it's lineage, I would
consider it as a prosumer camera. Where do the experts in the field
create the demarcation for point-and-shoot cameras between the consumer,
prosumer, professional cameras?

My second question is, What other brands are out there that are
competing for the Canon G10 consumers? (looking for prosumer
point-and-shoot cameras list only). This way I can compare them and buy
the one that fits my needs.

Thank you in advance for any information and advice.

NJ

"Neil Jones" <castellan2004-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hyr2l.10135$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi,
>
> At the time I got Powershot G3, it was considered a "Prosumer" camera.
> Now, when I searched for a "prosumer camera", I get a listing of Digital
> SLR cameras too. I am trying to stay with "point and shoot" although I
> do love some of the SLR cameras that I found (which are out of my price
> range now).
>
What the Hell is a "prosumer" camera, the G3 is a "point and shoot" the word
"prosumer" is an incorrect term. Technically a Canon 40D is a "prosumer"
camera, as it has pro features in a consumer price point. Video cameras seem
to started the therm "prosumer" with cameras like the Canon GL2.

Hi Neal,

"Neil Jones" wrote:
> I do like the Canon Powershot G10. Considering it's lineage, I would
> consider it as a prosumer camera. Where do the experts in the field
> create the demarcation for point-and-shoot cameras between the consumer,
> prosumer, professional cameras?
In the compact class, prosumer defines a camera with full manual control of
settings like aperture, shutter speed and so on. Also, it normally has
additional features like external flash shoe, a good fast lens, maybe tilt
and swivel LCD, iintegrated ND filter and so on. Yes, the G series has
always be regarded as a prosumer cam. Unfortunately, the G10 does not have a
swivel lcd and fast lens anymore (G6 was the last one), but has a wider zoom
range and IS now. And lots of megapixels. See
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong10/ for a full review. I don´t like
the samples much. There is too much smearing of details even at iso 80.

> My second question is, What other brands are out there that are
> competing for the Canon G10 consumers? (looking for prosumer
> point-and-shoot cameras list only). This way I can compare them and buy
> the one that fits my needs.
A similar camera s the Nikon Coolpix P6000

Also look for those so called "bridge cams" or slr-lke superzoom cams that
have a very
wide stabilized zoom range like the Canon SX10, Panasonic Lumix FZ50,
Olympus SP-570UZ or Fuji Finepix S9100.
You can try to search via http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp for
the features you need.

HTH,
Markus

Neil Jones wrote:

> [...]
> I do like the Canon Powershot G10. Considering it's lineage, I would
> consider it as a prosumer camera. Where do the experts in the field
> create the demarcation for point-and-shoot cameras between the consumer,
> prosumer, professional cameras?
>
The G10 isn't that bad! But what about the
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FX37 (5x) from 25 - 125 mm?
Or:
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3?
It has a _very fine_ Lens (2.5x) equiv. to 24 - 60 mm.
For me it would be my one (Fine distortion, Noise levels, external
Flash, ...) but for now I've got the Fujifilm F30 which is better than any
other none DSLR <:-D.


> [...]
>
Look at dpreview.com and see the differences ;-)

--
Grüße ins Netz

Hans

"Markus Fuenfrocken" <mar...@fuenfrocken.de> wrote:
> Hi Neal,
>
> "Neil Jones" wrote:
> > I do like the Canon Powershot G10. *Considering it's lineage, I would
> > consider it as a prosumer camera. *Where do the experts in the field
> > create the demarcation for point-and-shoot cameras between the consumer,
> > prosumer, professional cameras?
>
> In the compact class, prosumer defines a camera with full manual control of
> settings like aperture, shutter speed and so on. Also, it normally has
> additional features like external flash shoe, a good fast lens, maybe tilt
> and swivel LCD, iintegrated *ND filter and so on. Yes, the G series has
> always be regarded as a prosumer cam. Unfortunately, the G10 does not
> have a swivel lcd and fast lens anymore (G6 was the last one), but has
> a wider zoom range and IS now. And lots of megapixels.

I've been doing a fairly similar search and have been a bit
disappointed with how limited the selections are getting for something
that's not completely "dumbed down" through deletion of elements such
as manual controls, Aperture priority, etc. In short, all the
features that our 5 year old Canon A80 came with.

Within the Canon line, my short personal list is non-proprietary
batteries (ie, runs on AAs) and while maintaining a compact size (A80
footprint), the only acceptable product for me appears to be the A590
IS. The A1000 and A2000 cameras come close, but lack some controls.
And unfortunately, none of these have a tilt-swivel LCD.

For other brands, I think the Panasonic LZ8 or LZ10 may be fairly
comparable? Not sure about Nikon (haven't looked).


> > My second question is, What other brands are out there that are
> > competing for the Canon G10 consumers? (looking for prosumer
> > point-and-shoot cameras list only). *This way I can compare them and buy
> > the one that fits my needs.
>
> A similar camera is the Nikon Coolpix P6000

(just looked specifically at the P6000)
Specs look promising for me, except for my desire of AA batteries.


> Also look for those so called "bridge cams" or slr-lke
> superzoom cams ...

The general challenge with this class of cameras is in their size
(form factor): they've grown just enough such that they're not really
a "pocketable".

The question of 'pocketability' kind of comes down to two tiers, which
are along the lines of "short pocket" versus "pants pocket" (or
jacket). For the latter, I'd say that something in the general
dimensions of 4.5" x 2.5" and 1.25"-1.5" thick is probably the
practical limit. There is some lattitude for a 'chunky handle grip',
but I think that it starts to be borderline when the thickness has
both a grip bulge and a lens bulge. Its not a particularly relishing
trade-space.

Each time I start to look in earnest, I seem to end up on eBay,
looking for older, discontinued models.

-hh

The gal or guy pushing the shutter button determines if a camera is amateur
or professional.

No doubt that almost all professionals use DSLRs as their main bodies, but
some use higher-end compacts (point and shoots) as backups. Some use those
super-zooms.

"Prosumer" is a messy tag that will never be agreed upon as to what the hell
it exactly means. A "bridge camera" is another fuzzy term.

Just define your goals and do your homework and forget about the stupid
labels.

"Grey Cleason" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:59:50 -0500, "Charles" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>The gal or guy pushing the shutter button determines if a camera is
>>amateur
>>or professional.
>>
>>No doubt that almost all professionals use DSLRs as their main bodies,
>
> And you base your findings on what? You interviewed every last one of
> them? Or
> was it from reading posts from pretend-photographer idiots in newsgroups
> that
> keep spewing misinformation and lies to try to support their own
> ignorance-based
> beliefs?
>
> You could never be so wrong.

You and your dozens of clones have lost all traction here.

> "If even 5 billion people are saying and doing a foolish thing, it remains
> a
> foolish thing."

If the same nonsense is reposted hundreds of times, it remains nonsense.

cpinternet.com is a domain controlled by two nameservers at cpinternet.com
themselves. They are on the same IP network. Incoming mail for
cpinternet.com is handled by one mailserver which are also at
cpinternet.com. cpinternet.com has one IP record. www.cpinternet.com cnames
to this hostname. www.isd.net, cptelecom.net and www.cptelecom.net point to
the same IP. 209.240.224.117 reverses to this hostname. isd.net, clh.net,
nsvh.com, daar.com, lrvc.net and at least 100 other hosts share nameservers
with this domain. isd.net, cmjt.net, nsvh.com, daar.com, saly.com and at
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dnr.cpinternet.com, ips.cpinternet.com, dev.cpinternet.com,
ns2.cpinternet.com and at least 100 other hosts are subdomains to this
hostname.

There is movement afoot to take you off the air.

Markus Fuenfrocken wrote:
> Hi Neal,
>
> "Neil Jones" wrote:
>> I do like the Canon Powershot G10. Considering it's lineage, I would
>> consider it as a prosumer camera. Where do the experts in the field
>> create the demarcation for point-and-shoot cameras between the consumer,
>> prosumer, professional cameras?
> In the compact class, prosumer defines a camera with full manual control of
> settings like aperture, shutter speed and so on. Also, it normally has
> additional features like external flash shoe, a good fast lens, maybe tilt
> and swivel LCD, iintegrated ND filter and so on. Yes, the G series has
> always be regarded as a prosumer cam. Unfortunately, the G10 does not have a
> swivel lcd and fast lens anymore (G6 was the last one), but has a wider zoom
> range and IS now. And lots of megapixels. See
> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong10/ for a full review. I don´t like
> the samples much. There is too much smearing of details even at iso 80.
>
>> My second question is, What other brands are out there that are
>> competing for the Canon G10 consumers? (looking for prosumer
>> point-and-shoot cameras list only). This way I can compare them and buy
>> the one that fits my needs.
> A similar camera s the Nikon Coolpix P6000
>
> Also look for those so called "bridge cams" or slr-lke superzoom cams that
> have a very
> wide stabilized zoom range like the Canon SX10, Panasonic Lumix FZ50,
> Olympus SP-570UZ or Fuji Finepix S9100.
> You can try to search via http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp for
> the features you need.
>
> HTH,
> Markus
>
>

Thank you for replying. This explanation is very helpful. When I
bought my Powershot G3 in late 2004, the term "Prosumer" was used a lot
since, at that time it was one of the high-end P&S cameras. Technology
has evolved a lot and now I am hearing other terms as SuperZooms,
MegaZooms and Micro Four Thirds (that is something I learned today).

I love SLRs (still have the Nikon Film SLR) but would try to avoid them
as an amateur photographer. They get more and more expensive with the
lenses and other supporting equipment. The worst part of DSLR cameras
is that they are NOT convenient for vacation travels. A good P&S is
great for travel. However you (atleast me) do want almost SLR like
features. This is where I am fitting into the camera landscape.

Most of the current cameras have video recording capabilities. While it
is not most important thing for me, I have been checking/comparing
cameras that fall in the G10(Prosumer or whatever) class of cameras.

The battery life is another thing that is very important for me as well.
I have ruled out Canon Powershot SX10 IS, since they take AA batteries
(but recommend NiMH).

Based on the research using this criteria, the Panasonic Lumix DMC FZ28
and Canon Powershot G10 are looking good. I will see what Santa will
bring. :-)

Thank you once again for replying.

NJ

Neil Jones wrote:

> I love SLRs (still have the Nikon Film SLR) but would try to avoid them
> as an amateur photographer. They get more and more expensive with the
> lenses and other supporting equipment. The worst part of DSLR cameras
> is that they are NOT convenient for vacation travels. A good P&S is
> great for travel. However you (atleast me) do want almost SLR like
> features. This is where I am fitting into the camera landscape.

Depends on the vacation. I take my D-SLR on some vacations. Yeah, it's
not as convenient as the P&S but some vacations are better enjoyed with
the capabilities of a D-SLR (i.e. Alaska, trips to national parks). By
the time you've loaded up your day pack with two liters of water, lunch,
etc., the added weight and bulk of a D-SLR is lost in the noise.
Remember, you don't have to take every lens you own, one or two lenses
is sufficient.

"SLR-Like" is really misleading. Does that mean interchangeable lenses?
Then only the Panasonic Lumix G1 qualifies. Does it mean no AF lag? Then
no P&S qualifies. Does it mean wide dynamic range? Then no P&S
qualifies. Does it mean good wide angle and telephoto capability with
quality glass? Then no P&S qualifies.

What you should do is to buy the smallest D-SLR, the Olympus E-420. It's
not much larger than a super-zoom (smaller in some cases) and will
perform far, far better.
"http://reviews.photographyreview.com/files/2008/05/olympus_e-420_inhand.jpg"

> The battery life is another thing that is very important for me as well.
> I have ruled out Canon Powershot SX10 IS, since they take AA batteries
> (but recommend NiMH).

Yes, it's really too bad that Canon cheaped out in that way. Yet AA
batteries aren't as bad as they were in the past with the advent of
Eneloop cells with low self-discharge.