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Canon's latest horror: Black pixels in 5D II

 
 
RichA
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      12-09-2008, 02:43 PM
Now this is one odd looking problem. Notice the black blocks that
appear to the right of the lights in this shot? Anyone know what this
is? (not my shot). Apparently, this is showing up in the new 5D II.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30287334
 
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RichA
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      12-09-2008, 07:58 PM
On Dec 9, 11:29 am, "G Paleologopoulos" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:
> "RichA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrotenews:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
>
> > Now this is one odd looking problem. Notice the black blocks that
> > appear to the right of the lights in this shot? Anyone know what this
> > is? (not my shot). Apparently, this is showing up in the new 5D II.

>
> >http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30287334

>
> I see a lot of specular internal reflection from the lens, if that's what
> you're talking about.
> Very difficult subject.


No, actual black spots (smaller than the images of the lights) on the
right hand side of each light image. More visible on the lights in
the middle and on the right of the image.
 
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Paul Furman
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      12-09-2008, 08:09 PM
G Paleologopoulos wrote:
> "RichA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> Now this is one odd looking problem. Notice the black blocks that
>> appear to the right of the lights in this shot? Anyone know what this
>> is? (not my shot). Apparently, this is showing up in the new 5D II.
>>
>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30287334

>
> I see a lot of specular internal reflection from the lens, if that's
> what you're talking about.
> Very difficult subject.


The strange thing is square highlights on the x-mas lights. It looks to
me like the 85/1.2L's even-counted non-rounded 8 aperture blades are
doing funny things and that causes the black spots. It is a challenging
scene.

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

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Colin.D
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      12-09-2008, 09:45 PM
RichA wrote:
> Now this is one odd looking problem. Notice the black blocks that
> appear to the right of the lights in this shot? Anyone know what this
> is? (not my shot). Apparently, this is showing up in the new 5D II.
>
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30287334


This effect may be present in other cameras as well, but just not
discovered yet.

It looks to me like the saturated highlights are causing linearity
problems in the pixel amplifiers, depressing the following pixels
towards black until the amplifiers recover a few pixels later.

If so, I think this is a major, as I believe the amplifiers are part of
the CMOS sensor design.

Colin D.
 
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RichA
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      12-09-2008, 10:47 PM
On Dec 9, 4:52 pm, "Larry Thong" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> RichA wrote:
> > Now this is one odd looking problem. Notice the black blocks that
> > appear to the right of the lights in this shot? Anyone know what this
> > is? (not my shot). Apparently, this is showing up in the new 5D II.

>
> >http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30287334

>
> I would suspect this is a bad lens! The square lights are a dead giveaway.
> Canon's 85/1.2L II is still considered a piece of ****. Not sure why Canon
> persists in using 8-blades instead of nine? I would suspect if he puts an
> 85/1.4 Nikkor on the 5D2 the shot would be sweet with round lights and no
> black spots.


That is, if it didn't appear with other lenses, which it does.
Interesting effect, whatever the cause.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30276248
 
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RichA
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      12-09-2008, 11:33 PM
On Dec 9, 6:09 pm, "Larry Thong" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> RichA wrote:
> >> I would suspect this is a bad lens! The square lights are a dead
> >> giveaway. Canon's 85/1.2L II is still considered a piece of ****.
> >> Not sure why Canon persists in using 8-blades instead of nine? I
> >> would suspect if he puts an 85/1.4 Nikkor on the 5D2 the shot would
> >> be sweet with round lights and no black spots.

>
> > That is, if it didn't appear with other lenses, which it does.
> > Interesting effect, whatever the cause.

>
> >http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30276248

>
> Let's see, some idiots that have too much time on their hands pixel peep at
> 200% looking for problems, any problems, find an anomaly and now it is going
> to be parroted over the internet for all the other idiots to get this
> problem by osmosis. This non-issue will be fixed in the first of many
> firmware updates to come down the pike. For Christ's sake the 5D2 is a
> $3,000 powerhouse and a bargain. Some people just don't deserve the 5D2.


When did you buy one?
 
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RichA
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      12-09-2008, 11:47 PM
On Dec 9, 4:39 pm, "G Paleologopoulos" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> "RichA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrotenews:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 9, 11:29 am, "G Paleologopoulos" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> > wrote:
> >> "RichA" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> >> wrotenews:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> >> > Now this is one odd looking problem. Notice the black blocks that
> >> > appear to the right of the lights in this shot? Anyone know what this
> >> > is? (not my shot). Apparently, this is showing up in the new 5D II.

>
> >> >http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30287334

>
> >> I see a lot of specular internal reflection from the lens, if that's what
> >> you're talking about.
> >> Very difficult subject.

>
> > No, actual black spots (smaller than the images of the lights) on the
> > right hand side of each light image. More visible on the lights in
> > the middle and on the right of the image.

>
> Zoomed-in and saw what you meant.
> To me, the spots look like a suppression of some sort because if you look
> very closely they flare up and down, giving the overall impression that some
> kind of ghosting was inaccurately suppressed. Sure, I make a lot of
> sense............8-))


Check this out:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30277522
 
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RichA
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      12-09-2008, 11:54 PM
On Dec 9, 6:47 pm, RichA <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Dec 9, 4:39 pm, "G Paleologopoulos" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "RichA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrotenews:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> > > On Dec 9, 11:29 am, "G Paleologopoulos" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> > > wrote:
> > >> "RichA" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> > >> wrotenews:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> > >> > Now this is one odd looking problem. Notice the black blocks that
> > >> > appear to the right of the lights in this shot? Anyone know what this
> > >> > is? (not my shot). Apparently, this is showing up in the new 5D II.

>
> > >> >http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30287334

>
> > >> I see a lot of specular internal reflection from the lens, if that's what
> > >> you're talking about.
> > >> Very difficult subject.

>
> > > No, actual black spots (smaller than the images of the lights) on the
> > > right hand side of each light image. More visible on the lights in
> > > the middle and on the right of the image.

>
> > Zoomed-in and saw what you meant.
> > To me, the spots look like a suppression of some sort because if you look
> > very closely they flare up and down, giving the overall impression that some
> > kind of ghosting was inaccurately suppressed. Sure, I make a lot of
> > sense............8-))

>
> Check this out:
>
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30277522


Still more, hardly pixel-peeping in that first shot. This is a real
issue.

http://www.andrewyip.com/blog/2008/1...mark-ii-images

 
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ASAAR
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      12-10-2008, 05:28 PM
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:22:10 +0200, G Paleologopoulos wrote:

> "Alan Browne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
> news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
>>
>> G Paleologopoulos wrote:
>>> "RichA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

>>...............................
>> .................................
>> Please use plain text in postings, not HTML.

>
>
> I thought I did [[confused]]
> Sorry.


No need to apologize. Sometimes replies contain plain text and an
HTML copy of same. My newsreader is configured to display the text
and represent the HTML portion with an icon which can be expanded
into text if desired. I checked all three of your replies in this
thread (including the one Alan replied to) and none showed any HTML
or an HTML icon. If you read enough of his replies you'll see that
he is extremely quick to criticize others. Alan's request for you
to stop using HTML may be due to an accidentally triggered knee-jerk
reflex, or possibly due to his computer being infected by a virus.

Or maybe my computer has been infected and the virus is stripping
HTML out of newsgroup articles. Maybe some others will describe
what they saw in your message that supposedly contains HTML.

 
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Paul Furman
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      12-11-2008, 02:24 AM
Richard J Kinch wrote:
> writes:
>
>> The problem is almost certainly a problem on the chip itself involving
>> overloaded pixels and the way the amplifiers work.

>
> That sort of overloading is what causes afterimages.
> So the behavior could still involve a delay effect that showed up from
> slight camera motions. You overload certain pixels with this type of
> pinpoint lighting scene, and then camera shakes a few pixels one way or the
> other when you snap the shutter. But this would require live view mode
> since the sensor presumably isn't pre-exposed otherwise.


I've seen multiple examples with the black dot on the right. It does
seem to be a sensor reading/processing issue not optical as I'd thought.

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam
 
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