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city streets/nightime

 
 
beaver
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      03-07-2005, 11:11 AM
I want to get some good shots of city streets at night using an
OlympusC5000z.

I've got the streets, regular nightimes and the camera however it seems that
whatever settings I use the image is getting flooded with yellow from the
sodium lighting. When I try to correct them afterwards (PS7) there is simply
not enough blue channel content to get a balanced image

any advice would be very welcome

as you've probably guessed...newbie!

thanks

B


 
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secheese
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      03-07-2005, 11:31 AM
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:11:11 -0000, "beaver" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I want to get some good shots of city streets at night using an
>OlympusC5000z.
>
>I've got the streets, regular nightimes and the camera however it seems that
>whatever settings I use the image is getting flooded with yellow from the
>sodium lighting. When I try to correct them afterwards (PS7) there is simply
>not enough blue channel content to get a balanced image
>
>any advice would be very welcome


Can your camera do 'Custom White Balance'? If so, that should solve
your problem.

 
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BG250
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      03-07-2005, 12:23 PM
"beaver" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:d0hcsa$i3u$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I want to get some good shots of city streets at night using an
> OlympusC5000z.
>
> I've got the streets, regular nightimes and the camera however it seems

that
> whatever settings I use the image is getting flooded with yellow from the
> sodium lighting. When I try to correct them afterwards (PS7) there is

simply
> not enough blue channel content to get a balanced image
>
> any advice would be very welcome
>
> as you've probably guessed...newbie!
>
> thanks
>
> B
>

You cannot white balance sodium lighting. The spectrum from sodium contains
mostly yellow orange bands of light. Low pressure sodium is completely
monochromatic light. High pressure has a few other color bands, but is
dominated by the yellow-orange bands. Google CRI for more info.

If you're in to experimentation, try this simple test. Take a compact disk
and reflect the light from a distant sodium street light on to the surface
of the disk so it is broken up into the spectral emission lines. You should
notice spectral lines made by the glowing gasses within the lamp. Ideally,
the spectrum would be continuous and even for pure white light but arc lamps
don't produce that.
bg


 
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Larry
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      03-07-2005, 02:36 PM
In article <cuYWd.15620$(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
> beaver wrote:
> > I want to get some good shots of city streets at night using an
> > OlympusC5000z.
> >
> > I've got the streets, regular nightimes and the camera however it
> > seems that whatever settings I use the image is getting flooded with
> > yellow from the sodium lighting. When I try to correct them
> > afterwards (PS7) there is simply not enough blue channel content to
> > get a balanced image
> >
> > any advice would be very welcome
> >
> > as you've probably guessed...newbie!
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > B

>
> Those lights are almost impossible to make look normal. There are two
> parts to the problem. First they are very yellow, but even more important
> they are very limited bright line, which means they don't emit a full set of
> colors, only a few. If they don't emit blue light, then anything blue will
> turn out as black.
>
> There are two kinds of those lights as well. There are high pressure
> (more reddish orange) and then there are low pressure (very yellow) In
> either case you can try using your camera's white balance to correct, but
> don't expect perfection.
>
> You can also decide that it is not a problem, but an opportunity to
> produce images making use of the unique properties of the lights and not try
> to make them look "normal."
>
> If the situation allows, you may want to try using flash. It may work
> in some situations. You can also try using filters, but again don't expect
> too much.
>
>
>


I have that problem in one of the horse areans I shoot in. On cloudy days
and at night it is lit by old fashioned vapor lamps (the blue/green type that
looks like "Mercury Vapor Lamps"), which have a terrible spectrum,at least
until they have been on for an hour, during which the spectrum changes as the
lamps warm up, and I must use several different "manual white balance"
settings depending on where I am in the area, and how much light is coming
from the lamps.

It can be a nightmare, when people are wearing bright colorfull custom made
clothing, and the colors arent "spot on" in the print.

After losing several sales due to "color matching" problems Ive learned to
use Manual White Balance a LOT! (I carry a neutral grey card, and a white
card in the big pocket in the back of my "shooting vest" and just drop it in
the light, do the balance, and "hope for the best", usually it works).

If your camera doesn't have a "Manual" white balance setting, I would sugest
you shop for one that does, if you wish to correct this particular problem,
or continue the project you have started.

My other solution is to shoot B&W under those lights, but it sometimes takes
a LOT of convincing to get a customer to believe what they REALLY want is a
B&W print, (and its usually a PITA for me to get it done).




--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
 
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beaver
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      03-07-2005, 03:34 PM

"Larry" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) T...
> In article <cuYWd.15620$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> (E-Mail Removed) says...
> > beaver wrote:
> > > I want to get some good shots of city streets at night using an
> > > OlympusC5000z.
> > >
> > > I've got the streets, regular nightimes and the camera however it
> > > seems that whatever settings I use the image is getting flooded with
> > > yellow from the sodium lighting. When I try to correct them
> > > afterwards (PS7) there is simply not enough blue channel content to
> > > get a balanced image
> > >
> > > any advice would be very welcome
> > >
> > > as you've probably guessed...newbie!
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > B

> >
> > Those lights are almost impossible to make look normal. There are

two
> > parts to the problem. First they are very yellow, but even more

important
> > they are very limited bright line, which means they don't emit a full

set of
> > colors, only a few. If they don't emit blue light, then anything blue

will
> > turn out as black.
> >
> > There are two kinds of those lights as well. There are high

pressure
> > (more reddish orange) and then there are low pressure (very yellow) In
> > either case you can try using your camera's white balance to correct,

but
> > don't expect perfection.
> >
> > You can also decide that it is not a problem, but an opportunity to
> > produce images making use of the unique properties of the lights and not

try
> > to make them look "normal."
> >
> > If the situation allows, you may want to try using flash. It may

work
> > in some situations. You can also try using filters, but again don't

expect
> > too much.
> >
> >
> >

>
> I have that problem in one of the horse areans I shoot in. On cloudy days
> and at night it is lit by old fashioned vapor lamps (the blue/green type

that
> looks like "Mercury Vapor Lamps"), which have a terrible spectrum,at least
> until they have been on for an hour, during which the spectrum changes as

the
> lamps warm up, and I must use several different "manual white balance"
> settings depending on where I am in the area, and how much light is coming
> from the lamps.
>
> It can be a nightmare, when people are wearing bright colorfull custom

made
> clothing, and the colors arent "spot on" in the print.
>
> After losing several sales due to "color matching" problems Ive learned to
> use Manual White Balance a LOT! (I carry a neutral grey card, and a white
> card in the big pocket in the back of my "shooting vest" and just drop it

in
> the light, do the balance, and "hope for the best", usually it works).
>
> If your camera doesn't have a "Manual" white balance setting, I would

sugest
> you shop for one that does, if you wish to correct this particular

problem,
> or continue the project you have started.
>
> My other solution is to shoot B&W under those lights, but it sometimes

takes
> a LOT of convincing to get a customer to believe what they REALLY want is

a
> B&W print, (and its usually a PITA for me to get it done).
>
>
>
>
> --
> Larry Lynch
> Mystic, Ct.


Many thanks to all of you, I will digest those answers that I can
understand, ponder the rest and go experiment again. I do have manual
settings on the c5000z and also a manual white balance. I will post a link
here to the next batch just in case someone else is going to encounter the
same situation in the future

again, thanks to you all

B


 
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secheese
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      03-08-2005, 12:06 AM
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:34:56 -0000, "beaver" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Many thanks to all of you, I will digest those answers that I can
>understand, ponder the rest and go experiment again. I do have manual
>settings on the c5000z and also a manual white balance. I will post a link
>here to the next batch just in case someone else is going to encounter the
>same situation in the future


Don't forget; I'd be interested in how well they turn out.

 
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JPS@no.komm
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      03-08-2005, 04:03 AM
In message <422c4724$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"BG250" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>If you're in to experimentation, try this simple test. Take a compact disk
>and reflect the light from a distant sodium street light on to the surface
>of the disk so it is broken up into the spectral emission lines.


So that's why AOL keeps mailing me those CDs!
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <(E-Mail Removed)>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><

 
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