«

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:39:52 -0500, Alan Browne
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>John A. wrote:
>
>> We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel
>> appliances. She says magnets don't stick.
>
>Then it's not stainless steel.

Some grades of stainless steel aren't magnetic. Depends on how much
nickel is in it, I gather.

John A. wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:39:52 -0500, Alan Browne
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> John A. wrote:
>>
>>> We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel
>>> appliances. She says magnets don't stick.
>>
>> Then it's not stainless steel.
>
> Some grades of stainless steel aren't magnetic. Depends on how much
> nickel is in it, I gather.

At one time, before alloys that were magnetic become commonplace, the
standard test was to apply a magnet--if it didn't stick the part was
steel (aluminum and magnesium you could tell by weight, and titanium,
well, it didn't exist commercially).

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:59:47 -0500, Alan Browne, who is determined
to show that he knows all of the answers, wrote:

>>> Then it's not stainless steel.
>>
>> Some grades of stainless steel aren't magnetic. Depends on how much
>> nickel is in it, I gather.
>
> Yes, you're right there is type of stainless called "Austenitic" that,
> in the right conditions, is non magnetic. Slap it with a hammer (or
> other tooling) and it becomes quite attracted to magnets, however.

I've an old KitchenAid pot that's been knocked around and banged
up for years. "Stainless Steel" is stamped on the bottom and
there's no noticeable attraction by strong magnets. Did you just
google "Stainless Steel" and discover the word "Austenitic"?

> In general, the higher the proportion of chromium, the stronger the
> corrosion resistance of the steel. In addition to chromium, other
> metals are added to give the steel particular properties such as
> strength and malleability. Specifically nickel is used to strengthen
> the oxide layer.
>
> As for whether they are magnetic, the answer is that it depends.
> There are several families of stainless steels with different physical
> properties. A basic stainless steel has a 'ferritic' structure and is
> magnetic. These are formed from the addition of chromium and
> can be hardened through the addition of carbon (making them
> 'martensitic') and are often used in cutlery. However, the most
> common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher
> chromium content and nickel is also added. It is the nickel which
> modifies the physical structure of the steel and makes it non-magnetic.
>
> So the answer is yes, the magnetic properties of stainless steel are
> very dependent on the elements added into the alloy, and specifically
> the addition of nickel can change the structure from magnetic to non-magnetic.

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae546.cfm


If you have non-magnetic stainless steel and you "Slap it with a
hammer", does that knock the nickel out of the steel, leaving a
powdery residue? Is this the famous "plugged nickel" that is used
to measure your theories' values? How hard does a pot have to be
slapped to change the steel's structure and make it non-magnetic?
Can it be done easily in a kitchen or is a machine shop's equipment
sufficient? Reheating the pot to a very high temperature will
return it to its non-magnetic state. Isn't the internet great?

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:24:15 -0600, "mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY
REACH ME"@scs.uiuc.edu wrote:

>>> Some grades of stainless steel aren't magnetic. Depends on how much
>>> nickel is in it, I gather.
>
> No, how much chromium. Low chromium makes it magnetic.

No, back atcha! Unlike humans, steel that's got the hots is
non-magnetic. Nickel makes the non-magnetic state stable at low
temperatures. This is shown in the quote below. If chromium also
has this property, it's probably less effective than nickel. The
same web page notes that to increase the corrosion resistance of
steel, chromium is added.

> At room temperature Mild Steel is magnetic - the atoms are arranged
> to form a structure that is predominantly ferrite. Ferrite is magnetic.
> Once steel is heated to above 730°C the atoms will tend to rearrange
> into a phase called Austenite. Austenite is non-magnetic. So very hot
> steel is not magnetic….who cares!
>
> An interesting fact is that some alloy additions will encourage Austenite
> to be stable at room temperature, the result being a steel which is
> non-magnetic at room temperature. One such alloy is Nickel. The 300
> series of stainless steels contain sufficient Nickel to render them
> non-magnetic. As 316/L & 304/L are the most common stainless steel
> grades used, they are the grades that most people are familiar with.
> All of the stainless steels from the 300 series are non-magnetic. This has
> resulted in the misconception that all stainless steels are non-magnetic.
> But the fact remains that stainless steels from the other series such as
> 200, 400, PH, duplex etc have higher percentages of ferrite and are
> therefore magnetic. Some of these “magnetic� stainless steels have
> superior strength and corrosion resistance than those of the 300 series.

http://www.supremesteel.co.nz/articl...l_magnetic.php

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:12:14 -0500, ASAAR <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:24:15 -0600, "mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY
>REACH ME"@scs.uiuc.edu wrote:
>
>>>> Some grades of stainless steel aren't magnetic. Depends on how much
>>>> nickel is in it, I gather.
>>
>> No, how much chromium. Low chromium makes it magnetic.
>
> No, back atcha! Unlike humans, steel that's got the hots is
>non-magnetic. Nickel makes the non-magnetic state stable at low
>temperatures. This is shown in the quote below. If chromium also
>has this property, it's probably less effective than nickel. The
>same web page notes that to increase the corrosion resistance of
>steel, chromium is added.

Gosh! With all this metallurgical discussion in a photography group
you'd think the P&S guy would jump in to chastise us "resident-trolls"
for our off-topic posts.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:51:04 -0600, Ron Hunter wrote:

>> We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel
>> appliances. She says magnets don't stick.
>
> If a magnet doesn't stick to it, then it is NOT really stainless steel.
> More likely brushed aluminum.

This might be one of the areas where your wife could teach you a
thing or two. Or not. There are many types of stainless steel
cookware, and many of them don't work on induction ranges.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:22:42 -0500, Alan Browne, the one and only,
wrote:

====================================
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:39:52 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

>> We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel
>> appliances. She says magnets don't stick.
>
> Then it's not stainless steel.
====================================

> Ron Hunter wrote:
>> John A. wrote:
>
>>> We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel
>>> appliances. She says magnets don't stick.
>>
>> If a magnet doesn't stick to it, then it is NOT really stainless steel.
>> More likely brushed aluminum.
>
> ... will somebody...

Tell Ron that he made the same mistake that you, Alan Browne, made
earlier this A.M.! I wonder if he'll also then acknowledge his
mistake in a followup reply while making a show of how much he
*really* knows about the magnetic properties of stainless steel, as
you did?

In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Alan Browne <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Ron Hunter wrote:
>> John A. wrote:

>>> We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel
>>> appliances. She says magnets don't stick.
>>
>> If a magnet doesn't stick to it, then it is NOT really stainless steel.
>> More likely brushed aluminum.

> ... will somebody...

I'd be surprised if anyone posting in this thread doesn't have in
their house a magnet and both kinds of stainless steel. The standard
of empirical enquiry in this newsgroup is very disappointing. And
everyone posting here has trivially easy access to google. The
standard of research is pretty disappointing too. No wonder so many
are puzzled by their cameras :-)

--
Chris Malcolm

Chris Malcolm wrote:
> In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Alan Browne <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Ron Hunter wrote:
>>> John A. wrote:
>
>>>> We have an employee with some of those fancy stainless steel
>>>> appliances. She says magnets don't stick.
>>> If a magnet doesn't stick to it, then it is NOT really stainless steel.
>>> More likely brushed aluminum.
>
>> ... will somebody...
>
> I'd be surprised if anyone posting in this thread doesn't have in
> their house a magnet and both kinds of stainless steel. The standard
> of empirical enquiry in this newsgroup is very disappointing. And
> everyone posting here has trivially easy access to google. The
> standard of research is pretty disappointing too. No wonder so many
> are puzzled by their cameras :-)

You seem to have overlooked those of us who don't much care whether
stainless is magnetizable or not......Though I am open to be persuaded
why I should be. :-)

--
john mcwilliams

John McWilliams wrote:
> Chris Malcolm wrote:
>> I'd be surprised if anyone posting in this thread doesn't have in
>> their house a magnet and both kinds of stainless steel. The standard
>> of empirical enquiry in this newsgroup is very disappointing. And
>> everyone posting here has trivially easy access to google. The
>> standard of research is pretty disappointing too. No wonder so many
>> are puzzled by their cameras :-)
>
> You seem to have overlooked those of us who don't much care whether
> stainless is magnetizable or not......Though I am open to be persuaded
> why I should be. :-)
>
Imagine this scenario, John.

Your family life revolves around the fridge - there are messages,
calendars, sentimental trinkets, witty sayings, obscene little trolls
(why did I think of that?), dreamcatchers, reminders, ads for essential
services like Jeff's AirCon Regas, all safe and secure with their little
magnetized backs....

Then one fateful day, you decide to upgrade to the latest SS fridge, and
then invite all of the family to an event where it gets installed and
all of the above gets transferred. Imagine your embarrassment..


...no?

Well, I tried.