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HDV ... true HD Image Sensors ... ie 1440 x 1080 is NOT 1920 x 1080

 
 
bobby.kurtz@gmail.com
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      08-22-2006, 02:21 PM
Can anyone explain to me something thats been bugging me ever since the
appearence of HDV cams on the market.

Most of the HDV cams I have seen are using CCD's of resolutions or 1440
x 1080 instead of the full 1920 x 1080 required for HD. One example
being the $6k Canon X1 H1. Is there a specific reason for this. Its
like the whole streched 16:9 mode of DV cameras, which I thought was
something that we would never see again with the square pixel 2
resolution HD standards.
Meanwhile Canon is about to release a $1200 HV10 CMOS censor HDV cam
that has a true 1920 x 1080 optical sensor. This makes absolutely ZERO
sense to me. Don't get me wrong, the HV10 is a great deal, but why
does the $5000 X1 H1 not have the full resolution.

That being said in a similar note, no cameras seem to support 1280 x
720 / 24p or at least that feature may be downplayed in specifications
I am seeing ... they almost all seem to do some kind of propriatary
1080i variations.

 
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Jim
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      08-22-2006, 05:42 PM
JVC GY-HD100 is 720P

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<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ps.com...
> Can anyone explain to me something thats been bugging me ever since the
> appearence of HDV cams on the market.
>
> Most of the HDV cams I have seen are using CCD's of resolutions or 1440
> x 1080 instead of the full 1920 x 1080 required for HD. One example
> being the $6k Canon X1 H1. Is there a specific reason for this. Its
> like the whole streched 16:9 mode of DV cameras, which I thought was
> something that we would never see again with the square pixel 2
> resolution HD standards.
> Meanwhile Canon is about to release a $1200 HV10 CMOS censor HDV cam
> that has a true 1920 x 1080 optical sensor. This makes absolutely ZERO
> sense to me. Don't get me wrong, the HV10 is a great deal, but why
> does the $5000 X1 H1 not have the full resolution.
>
> That being said in a similar note, no cameras seem to support 1280 x
> 720 / 24p or at least that feature may be downplayed in specifications
> I am seeing ... they almost all seem to do some kind of propriatary
> 1080i variations.
>



 
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Frank
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      08-22-2006, 06:30 PM
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:42:52 GMT, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: HDV ... true HD Image Sensors ... ie 1440 x 1080 is
NOT 1920 x 1080>,
"Jim" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>JVC GY-HD100 is 720P



All JVC HDV products (camcorders and VCRs) are 720p.

All Sony HDV products (camcorders and VCRs) and Canon HDV camcorders
(Canon doesn't offer an HDV VCR) are 1080i.

The GY-HD100U (North America) has been replaced by the GY-HD110U.

The GY-HD100E (Europe) has been replaced by the GY-HD110E.

The GY-HD101E (Europe) has been replaced by the GY-HD111E.

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
 
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Frank
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      08-23-2006, 01:51 AM
On 22 Aug 2006 07:21:35 -0700, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <HDV ... true HD Image Sensors ... ie 1440 x 1080 is NOT
1920 x 1080>,
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Can anyone explain to me something thats been bugging me ever since the
>appearence of HDV cams on the market.
>
>Most of the HDV cams I have seen are using CCD's of resolutions or 1440
>x 1080 instead of the full 1920 x 1080 required for HD. One example
>being the $6k Canon X1 H1.


The Canon XL H1 is $9K, not $6K.

>Is there a specific reason for this.


Cost, availability of sensors in a certain size, and the fact that in
the 1080i HDV format only 1440 pixels per scan line are written to
tape anyway--not the full 1920. And to some degree, market perception
and the need to develop a product that can sell at a certain price
point.

>Its
>like the whole streched 16:9 mode of DV cameras, which I thought was
>something that we would never see again with the square pixel 2
>resolution HD standards.


16:9 aspect ratio 1920 x 1080 1080i HDV is anamorphically squeezed to
4:3 1440 x 1080 for storage and transmission. Many if not most 1080i
formats are treated this same way. It conserves bandwidth and storage.

All HD formats do have certain things in common, but the use of square
pixels isn't one of them.

>Meanwhile Canon is about to release a $1200 HV10 CMOS censor HDV cam
>that has a true 1920 x 1080 optical sensor. This makes absolutely ZERO
>sense to me. Don't get me wrong, the HV10 is a great deal,


We have different ideas of what constitutes a "great deal".
Personally, I would decline a truckload of free HV10's, but I wouldn't
say no to an XH G1.

>but why does the $5000 X1 H1 not have the full resolution.


It's still writing the same 1440 by 1080 frames to tape.

>That being said in a similar note, no cameras seem to support 1280 x
>720 / 24p or at least that feature may be downplayed in specifications
>I am seeing ... they almost all seem to do some kind of propriatary
>1080i variations.


JVC produces 720p HDV camcorders. Sony and Canon are in the 1080i HDV
camp.

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
 
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Steve Roberts
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      08-23-2006, 12:10 PM
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 01:51:24 GMT, Frank
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Cost, availability of sensors in a certain size, and the fact that in
>the 1080i HDV format only 1440 pixels per scan line are written to
>tape anyway--not the full 1920.


It's also worth pointing out that the majority of HD transmissions are
from Sony HDCam tape at the moment, which similarly only records 1440
pixels to tape.

Steve

The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
http://www.restoration-team.co.uk
 
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David Chien
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      08-30-2006, 05:46 PM
> Most of the HDV cams I have seen are using CCD's of resolutions or 1440
> x 1080 instead of the full 1920 x 1080 required for HD. One example
> being the $6k Canon X1 H1. Is there a specific reason for this. Its
> like the whole streched 16:9 mode of DV cameras, which I thought was


Simple, in the past, making a true 1920x1080 sensor that's capable
of 30fps output simply wasn't possible/cheap for a consumer level
camcorder. Technology moves fast, and the latest will always improve
upon the prior releases.

That's why the initial release of HDV camcorders from JVC, Sony,
etc. all didn't use a true 1920x1080 sensor (or even have true 1080 output).

This year, the first batch of second generation HDV camcorders are
out, and that's why you see such from Canon, etc. having true 1920x1080
sensors.

That said, it's a good time to hold off on the purchase until the
Canon comes out, and reviews are in. Figure if you're going to drop
$1000+ on a camcorder, might as well see if their true 1920x1080 sensor
is light years ahead of the competition, or simply marketing hype.

---
 
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