Photogtaphy Forums

Photography Forums > Photography Newsgroups > Software Archive > Amateur Video Production > The limit for DVD video

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes

The limit for DVD video

 
 
Brian
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      05-14-2011, 11:28 PM
Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
useful.
The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
problems.

Regards Brian


 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Mike S.
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      05-14-2011, 11:36 PM

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
>useful.
>The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
>cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
>A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
>written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
>problems.
>
>Regards Brian


http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html

Maximum video bit rate is 9.8 Mbps. The "average" video bit rate is
around 4 Mbps but depends entirely on the length, quality, amount of
audio, etc. This is a 31:1 reduction from uncompressed 124 Mbps video
source (or a 25:1 reduction from 100 Mbps film source). Raw channel
data is read off the disc at a constant 26.16 Mbps. After 8/16
demodulation it's down to 13.08 Mbps. After error correction the user
data stream goes into the track buffer at a constant 11.08 Mbps. The
track buffer feeds system stream data out at a variable rate of up to
10.08 Mbps. After system overhead, the maximum rate of combined
elementary streams (audio + video + subpicture) is 10.08. MPEG-1 video
rate is limited to 1.856 Mbps with a typical rate of 1.15 Mbps.

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Frank
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      05-15-2011, 02:07 AM
On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:28:31 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <The limit for DVD video>,
Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
>useful.
>The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
>cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
>A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
>written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
>problems.



Not sure from where you got this 17 Mbps figure, Brian, but it really
depends upon just what you mean by "DVD disc".

If you're referring to a DVD-Video disc that's intended for playback
in an ordinary television-attached DVD player, you had better keep the
maximum data rate under 9 Mbps, with an average in the 4 to 6 Mbps
range, else what you will have created is an invalid disc, compared to
the DVD-Video disc standard, and it will definitely *not* play back
correctly, if at all.

In fact, there's probably little to no DVD-Video disc authoring
software out there that would allow you to create a DVD-Video disc
with a 17 Mbps video data rate, given that 17 Mbps is w-a-y above the
maximum permitted rate.

OTOH, if you're referring to simply storing video files (in
arbitrarily chosen file formats and using arbitrarily chosen codecs)
on a DVD disc, that's a different story.

In that situation, the ability to smoothly play back the files (on a
computer, not in a standalone DVD-Video disc player) is primarily
going to be a function of the speed of the drive (DVD or BD) in which
the disc has been placed. Of course, even if the drive can't keep up
with the data rate, you can always copy the files to your computer's
hard disk drive and play them back from there.

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].
 
Reply With Quote
 
Brian
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      05-15-2011, 07:07 AM
Frank <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:28:31 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
>in article <The limit for DVD video>,
>Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
>>useful.
>>The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
>>cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
>>A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
>>written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
>>problems.

>
>
>Not sure from where you got this 17 Mbps figure, Brian, but it really
>depends upon just what you mean by "DVD disc".
>
>If you're referring to a DVD-Video disc that's intended for playback
>in an ordinary television-attached DVD player, you had better keep the
>maximum data rate under 9 Mbps, with an average in the 4 to 6 Mbps
>range, else what you will have created is an invalid disc, compared to
>the DVD-Video disc standard, and it will definitely *not* play back
>correctly, if at all.
>
>In fact, there's probably little to no DVD-Video disc authoring
>software out there that would allow you to create a DVD-Video disc
>with a 17 Mbps video data rate, given that 17 Mbps is w-a-y above the
>maximum permitted rate.
>
>OTOH, if you're referring to simply storing video files (in
>arbitrarily chosen file formats and using arbitrarily chosen codecs)
>on a DVD disc, that's a different story.
>
>In that situation, the ability to smoothly play back the files (on a
>computer, not in a standalone DVD-Video disc player) is primarily
>going to be a function of the speed of the drive (DVD or BD) in which
>the disc has been placed. Of course, even if the drive can't keep up
>with the data rate, you can always copy the files to your computer's
>hard disk drive and play them back from there.


I think I got this information from a Sony camera manual.
If like you say you can't copy a 17Mbps video to a DVD then how do you
play it back on a TV? The manual says the camera will record AVCHD
1920 x 1080 (50i) at 17Mbps.
However at this data rate I would not be able to store much video on a
DVD as it needs 8Gb's of space for 1 hour of video. The other option
is to copy the video to a Blu-ray disc.

Some of the Sony camera's will now record at 28 Mbps. There must be a
limit where a higher video data rate is a waste of time.

Regards Brian


 
Reply With Quote
 
Frank
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      05-15-2011, 10:16 AM
On Sun, 15 May 2011 19:07:23 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: The limit for DVD video>,
Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Frank <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:28:31 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
>>in article <The limit for DVD video>,
>>Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
>>>useful.
>>>The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
>>>cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
>>>A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
>>>written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
>>>problems.

>>
>>
>>Not sure from where you got this 17 Mbps figure, Brian, but it really
>>depends upon just what you mean by "DVD disc".
>>
>>If you're referring to a DVD-Video disc that's intended for playback
>>in an ordinary television-attached DVD player, you had better keep the
>>maximum data rate under 9 Mbps, with an average in the 4 to 6 Mbps
>>range, else what you will have created is an invalid disc, compared to
>>the DVD-Video disc standard, and it will definitely *not* play back
>>correctly, if at all.
>>
>>In fact, there's probably little to no DVD-Video disc authoring
>>software out there that would allow you to create a DVD-Video disc
>>with a 17 Mbps video data rate, given that 17 Mbps is w-a-y above the
>>maximum permitted rate.
>>
>>OTOH, if you're referring to simply storing video files (in
>>arbitrarily chosen file formats and using arbitrarily chosen codecs)
>>on a DVD disc, that's a different story.
>>
>>In that situation, the ability to smoothly play back the files (on a
>>computer, not in a standalone DVD-Video disc player) is primarily
>>going to be a function of the speed of the drive (DVD or BD) in which
>>the disc has been placed. Of course, even if the drive can't keep up
>>with the data rate, you can always copy the files to your computer's
>>hard disk drive and play them back from there.

>
>I think I got this information from a Sony camera manual.
>If like you say you can't copy a 17Mbps video to a DVD


I did not say that. I said that you could not create a playable, valid
DVD-Video disc using data at that data rate. I also said that you
could create a DVD data disc using any data rate video files that you
wanted.

Those are two very different types of discs, although you would use
the exact same kind of blanks in either case. It's what you put on the
disc that makes all the difference in the world.

> then how do you
>play it back on a TV? The manual says the camera will record AVCHD
>1920 x 1080 (50i) at 17Mbps.


Right, that's AVCHD. You can create BDs (Blu-ray Discs) or burn the
files to a DVD. In either case, you'll be playing the disc back in a
BD player, not in a DVD player.

Note that not all BD players support "AVCHD on DVD" discs. Read the
specs carefully prior to purchase.

>However at this data rate I would not be able to store much video on a
>DVD as it needs 8Gb's of space for 1 hour of video. The other option
>is to copy the video to a Blu-ray disc.


Right.

>Some of the Sony camera's will now record at 28 Mbps. There must be a
>limit where a higher video data rate is a waste of time.


Sure, but the exact point of no return, or diminishing returns,
depends upon the format, and lots of other variables including the
resolving power of the lens, etc.

Sony has been making HDCAM SR camcorders that record 880 Mbps MPEG-4
Part 2 intra-frame video for years now, Panasonic offers camcorders
that utilize its AVC-Intra 100 codec that records intra-frame MPEG-4
Part 10 at 100 Mbps and there are pros who record uncompressed video
at a 1.5 Gbps data rate. Convergent Designs' upcoming Gemini will be
able to record uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 at a very
reasonable price.

Regards,

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].
 
Reply With Quote
 
HerHusband
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      05-15-2011, 04:05 PM
Brian,

> If like you say you can't copy a 17Mbps video to a DVD
> then how do you play it back on a TV?


If you want a video DVD that you can give to family and friends, you need
to convert your original AVCHD video to MPEG2 with a maximum combined
bitrate (audio and video) under 9Mbps. I usually just use a constant video
bitrate of 6Mbps.

You can save AVCHD clips to a "data" DVD, but I think you're limited to
something like 15-20 minutes. You will also only be able to play these on
specific Blu-Ray players that support those kinds of discs.

Or, you can use a media player like the Tvix 6600N, Popcorn Hour, etc. to
play back your videos. I have the Tvix 6600N and stream the videos I keep
on my computer hard drive so I can watch them in the living room. I
convert my original AVCHD clips to MPEG2 at 30Mpbs, but you could use MP4
or other formats as well.

As mentioned in a recent discussion in this newsgroup, I keep my original
HD footage to archive and watch at home, then downsize to standard MPEG2
for DVD's I send to family.

Anthony Watson
Mountain Software
www.mountain-software.com/videos.htm
 
Reply With Quote
 
CLicker@invalid.org
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      05-15-2011, 05:30 PM
On Sat, 14 May 2011 22:07:38 -0400, Frank
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:28:31 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
>in article <The limit for DVD video>,
>Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
>>useful.
>>The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
>>cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
>>A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
>>written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
>>problems.

>
>
>Not sure from where you got this 17 Mbps figure, Brian, but it really
>depends upon just what you mean by "DVD disc".
>
>If you're referring to a DVD-Video disc that's intended for playback
>in an ordinary television-attached DVD player, you had better keep the
>maximum data rate under 9 Mbps, with an average in the 4 to 6 Mbps
>range, else what you will have created is an invalid disc, compared to
>the DVD-Video disc standard, and it will definitely *not* play back
>correctly, if at all.
>
>In fact, there's probably little to no DVD-Video disc authoring
>software out there that would allow you to create a DVD-Video disc
>with a 17 Mbps video data rate, given that 17 Mbps is w-a-y above the
>maximum permitted rate.
>
>OTOH, if you're referring to simply storing video files (in
>arbitrarily chosen file formats and using arbitrarily chosen codecs)
>on a DVD disc, that's a different story.
>
>In that situation, the ability to smoothly play back the files (on a
>computer, not in a standalone DVD-Video disc player) is primarily
>going to be a function of the speed of the drive (DVD or BD) in which
>the disc has been placed. Of course, even if the drive can't keep up
>with the data rate, you can always copy the files to your computer's
>hard disk drive and play them back from there.


It's unfortunate, Frank, that the semanticists of the time could not
think of a name for the optical medium which was/is different than the
video it was intended to contain.

Clearly optical discs of 5, 9, and greater GB capacity can be used to
store DVD a/v/g as well as text, photos, other formats of video and
audio with or without embedded subtitles, etc.

The x rates of 5 and 9 GB optical media are calculated based on the 10
mbps specified for DVDs and figured to one hour of play time at that
rate for the 5 (4.7) GB capacity disc. The ancient optical drives in
the PC I'm using to write this will write to the appropriate 4.7 GB
capacity optical media at 16x, or 1/16 hour to fill the disc; that's
160 mbps, though they more typically averaged 8-9x in practice when I
last used them a few years ago.

Contemporary stand alone players are less inhibited by the DVD
standard, now well into its second decade of existence, and will play
most, if not all, of the presently popular a/v encodings from whatever
medium was used at any speed required by the content. Here, we're
using Dune HD players and have OPPO and Philips sitting on a shelf.
These are all aimed at the under-the-set market with features formerly
found only in desk top PCs.

Many stand alone player owners have little or no idea of the
capabilities of their devices, so it's a safe bet, for at least
another decade or two, that DVD formatted optical media will play. And
for all that time folks will still be confusing DVD as a format with
DVD as a medium.
 
Reply With Quote
 
Brian
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      05-15-2011, 11:22 PM
"(E-Mail Removed)" <CLicker> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 May 2011 22:07:38 -0400, Frank
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:28:31 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
>>in article <The limit for DVD video>,
>>Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
>>>useful.
>>>The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
>>>cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
>>>A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
>>>written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
>>>problems.

>>
>>
>>Not sure from where you got this 17 Mbps figure, Brian, but it really
>>depends upon just what you mean by "DVD disc".
>>
>>If you're referring to a DVD-Video disc that's intended for playback
>>in an ordinary television-attached DVD player, you had better keep the
>>maximum data rate under 9 Mbps, with an average in the 4 to 6 Mbps
>>range, else what you will have created is an invalid disc, compared to
>>the DVD-Video disc standard, and it will definitely *not* play back
>>correctly, if at all.
>>
>>In fact, there's probably little to no DVD-Video disc authoring
>>software out there that would allow you to create a DVD-Video disc
>>with a 17 Mbps video data rate, given that 17 Mbps is w-a-y above the
>>maximum permitted rate.
>>
>>OTOH, if you're referring to simply storing video files (in
>>arbitrarily chosen file formats and using arbitrarily chosen codecs)
>>on a DVD disc, that's a different story.
>>
>>In that situation, the ability to smoothly play back the files (on a
>>computer, not in a standalone DVD-Video disc player) is primarily
>>going to be a function of the speed of the drive (DVD or BD) in which
>>the disc has been placed. Of course, even if the drive can't keep up
>>with the data rate, you can always copy the files to your computer's
>>hard disk drive and play them back from there.

>
>It's unfortunate, Frank, that the semanticists of the time could not
>think of a name for the optical medium which was/is different than the
>video it was intended to contain.
>
>Clearly optical discs of 5, 9, and greater GB capacity can be used to
>store DVD a/v/g as well as text, photos, other formats of video and
>audio with or without embedded subtitles, etc.
>
>The x rates of 5 and 9 GB optical media are calculated based on the 10
>mbps specified for DVDs and figured to one hour of play time at that
>rate for the 5 (4.7) GB capacity disc. The ancient optical drives in
>the PC I'm using to write this will write to the appropriate 4.7 GB
>capacity optical media at 16x, or 1/16 hour to fill the disc; that's
>160 mbps, though they more typically averaged 8-9x in practice when I
>last used them a few years ago.
>
>Contemporary stand alone players are less inhibited by the DVD
>standard, now well into its second decade of existence, and will play
>most, if not all, of the presently popular a/v encodings from whatever
>medium was used at any speed required by the content. Here, we're
>using Dune HD players and have OPPO and Philips sitting on a shelf.
>These are all aimed at the under-the-set market with features formerly
>found only in desk top PCs.
>
>Many stand alone player owners have little or no idea of the
>capabilities of their devices, so it's a safe bet, for at least
>another decade or two, that DVD formatted optical media will play. And
>for all that time folks will still be confusing DVD as a format with
>DVD as a medium.


Thanks HerHusband and Clicker (and others) for the useful information.
At the momet I'm transferring the original video on to an external
hard drive and are using my WD Media player to pay the video on TV.
I might experiement to find out what my DVD player is capable of
playing like you suggested.

Regards Brian
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
video video video video video video 0021275831620 Martin Heffels Amateur Video Production 1 12-13-2006 07:12 PM
TMPGenc DVD Author - "Add DVD Video" Limit Kevin Amateur Video Production 1 04-26-2006 01:37 AM
Video capture 4GB limit incubus! chebba@hbci.com Amateur Video Production 11 06-03-2004 04:36 PM
Panasonic PV-DV202 30 second video capture limit? Dave Amateur Video Production 3 04-28-2004 05:45 PM