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Need a low shutter lag point and shoot digital

 
 
Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)
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      11-14-2004, 07:24 PM
Hi. I need some help. I want to get a small
point and shoot digital camera, but I am concerned
about the shutter lag. Please do not recommend a
DSLR, as I have a Canon 1D Mark II and 10D cameras
and plenty of lenses to go with them. I'm looking
for something small, some specs that are important
to me:

5 megapixels or larger,
auto, manual, aperture priority modes,
3x optical zoom minimum, with autofocus,
built in flash,
compact flash I (and type II would be nice) cards,
under about $500,
reasonably low shutter lag for this type of camera.

Nice but not necessary: raw mode output.

The question is, what is a reasonably low shutter
lag on such cameras these days? I can't seem to find
many specs. Lag only seems to be mentioned rarely
in reviews, and the manufacturers do not seem to
give it. Does someone know of a site (especially a
table that compares the lag times, measured in a uniform
way) with lag times? I want lag time from shutter press,
autofocus, exposure calculation to release of the shutter,
and I do not consider lag time with manual focus to be
relevant for my purposes.

I have a Canon G1 and shutter lag is awful. It often seems
to take 0.5 to 1 second or longer to acquire focus and shoot.
(Of course this is quite maddening after using the 1D Mark II
with its 40 millisecond lag ;-).

One camera that I am looking at is the Canon A95, but I
can not find shutter lag info. It also only uses
compact flash type I.

Any help would be appreciated,
Thanks in advance,

Roger
photography, digital info at: http://www.clarkvision.com

 
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Ed Ruf
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      11-14-2004, 09:03 PM
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:24:10 -0700, in rec.photo.digital "Roger N. Clark
(change username to rnclark)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>The question is, what is a reasonably low shutter
>lag on such cameras these days? I can't seem to find
>many specs. Lag only seems to be mentioned rarely
>in reviews, and the manufacturers do not seem to
>give it. Does someone know of a site (especially a
>table that compares the lag times, measured in a uniform
>way) with lag times? I want lag time from shutter press,
>autofocus, exposure calculation to release of the shutter,
>and I do not consider lag time with manual focus to be
>relevant for my purposes.


Table no, but I believe all the reviews at http://www.dpreview have the
results of lag time tests.
__________________________________________________ ______
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ((E-Mail Removed))
http://EdwardGRuf.com
 
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Alain
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      11-14-2004, 10:52 PM
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
> Hi. I need some help. I want to get a small
> point and shoot digital camera, but I am concerned
> about the shutter lag. Please do not recommend a
> DSLR, as I have a Canon 1D Mark II and 10D cameras
> and plenty of lenses to go with them. I'm looking
> for something small, some specs that are important
> to me:
>
> 5 megapixels or larger,
> auto, manual, aperture priority modes,
> 3x optical zoom minimum, with autofocus,
> built in flash,
> compact flash I (and type II would be nice) cards,
> under about $500,
> reasonably low shutter lag for this type of camera.
>
> Nice but not necessary: raw mode output.
>
> The question is, what is a reasonably low shutter
> lag on such cameras these days? I can't seem to find
> many specs. Lag only seems to be mentioned rarely
> in reviews, and the manufacturers do not seem to
> give it. Does someone know of a site (especially a
> table that compares the lag times, measured in a uniform
> way) with lag times? I want lag time from shutter press,
> autofocus, exposure calculation to release of the shutter,
> and I do not consider lag time with manual focus to be
> relevant for my purposes.
>
> I have a Canon G1 and shutter lag is awful. It often seems
> to take 0.5 to 1 second or longer to acquire focus and shoot.
> (Of course this is quite maddening after using the 1D Mark II
> with its 40 millisecond lag ;-).
>
> One camera that I am looking at is the Canon A95, but I
> can not find shutter lag info. It also only uses
> compact flash type I.
>
> Any help would be appreciated,
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Roger
> photography, digital info at: http://www.clarkvision.com
>
>

Not really what you're specs are but you could also look at the
KonicaMinolta G530 or (G500 or G600). The shutter lag is almost
unnoticable after focus. No CF card, but SD...
Also quite a nr of manual setting possible, no RAW output.

Alain
 
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David J. Littleboy
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      11-14-2004, 11:58 PM

"Roger N. Clark wrote:
>
> I have a Canon G1 and shutter lag is awful. It often seems
> to take 0.5 to 1 second or longer to acquire focus and shoot.
> (Of course this is quite maddening after using the 1D Mark II
> with its 40 millisecond lag ;-).


Even if you can find the specs, the formal definition of shutter lag
excludes the AF time.

The P&S cameras use the CCD for AF and have to read out several frames to
focus. So the fastest P&S is going to be a lot slower than the slowest dSLR.

Even worse, the CCD-based AF systems often focus on something contrasty in
the background instead of your subject. This makes the EVF cameras
attractive, since you can see when the AF is messing up.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan



 
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David J. Littleboy
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      11-15-2004, 12:44 AM

"Roy Smith" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> "David J. Littleboy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> > Even worse, the CCD-based AF systems often focus on something contrasty

in
> > the background instead of your subject.

>
> I've seen my Canon PS-400 do exactly the opposite; focus on something in
> the foreground when my subject was further away.


Well, yes. I should have said "focus on something other than the subject
when the subject has relatively low contrast". It's _really_ irritating.

As I understand it, the dSLRs can do that also, but the AF sensors are quite
a bit smaller so it's much less of a problem (if you select the AF sensor
manually<g>).

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan



 
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YAG-ART
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      11-15-2004, 12:47 AM
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:11:46 -0500, Roy Smith <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>In article <cn8rbk$oj5$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> "David J. Littleboy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>
>> Even worse, the CCD-based AF systems often focus on something contrasty in
>> the background instead of your subject.

>
>I've seen my Canon PS-400 do exactly the opposite; focus on something in
>the foreground when my subject was further away.



Remember the camrera doent know what the subject is, only the
photogrpaher does.
 
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David J. Littleboy
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      11-15-2004, 01:28 AM

"YAG-ART" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:11:46 -0500, Roy Smith <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >In article <cn8rbk$oj5$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> > "David J. Littleboy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Even worse, the CCD-based AF systems often focus on something contrasty

in
> >> the background instead of your subject.

> >
> >I've seen my Canon PS-400 do exactly the opposite; focus on something in
> >the foreground when my subject was further away.


Come to think of it, My S85 used to do that for landscape shots. It would
focus on the pavement at my feet even though the center 1/3 of the image was
all a long way away.

> Remember the camrera doent know what the subject is, only the
> photogrpaher does.


Yes, but that's not the only/major problem. You careful place the (single)
AF point over the subject but the camera finds something in the background
or foreground to focus on. The focus area in a lot of P&S cameras is just
too large.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan




 
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YAG-ART
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      11-15-2004, 02:00 AM
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:28:33 +0900, "David J. Littleboy"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"YAG-ART" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:11:46 -0500, Roy Smith <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <cn8rbk$oj5$(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> > "David J. Littleboy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Even worse, the CCD-based AF systems often focus on something contrasty

>in
>> >> the background instead of your subject.
>> >
>> >I've seen my Canon PS-400 do exactly the opposite; focus on something in
>> >the foreground when my subject was further away.

>
>Come to think of it, My S85 used to do that for landscape shots. It would
>focus on the pavement at my feet even though the center 1/3 of the image was
>all a long way away.
>
>> Remember the camrera doent know what the subject is, only the
>> photogrpaher does.

>
>Yes, but that's not the only/major problem. You careful place the (single)
>AF point over the subject but the camera finds something in the background
>or foreground to focus on. The focus area in a lot of P&S cameras is just
>too large.


I didn't know that. Shooting a DSLR I guess the p&s just don't come
close.
 
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David J Taylor
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      11-15-2004, 09:19 AM
David J. Littleboy wrote:
[]
> The P&S cameras use the CCD for AF and have to read out several
> frames to focus. So the fastest P&S is going to be a lot slower than
> the slowest dSLR.
>
> Even worse, the CCD-based AF systems often focus on something
> contrasty in the background instead of your subject. This makes the
> EVF cameras attractive, since you can see when the AF is messing up.


The Nikon 8400 includes an additional focus sensor in addition to contrast
detection and is much faster in focussing.

In the Nikon 990 (IIRC) the logic is to focus on the nearer part of the
scene. On the Nikon 5700 and 8400 you can get a red rectangle showing to
highlight the actual area of the scene which has been used for focus - I
always have this enabled and find it invaluable.

Later cameras offer you the optional choice of scene area to focus on,
just like an SLR.

David


 
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David J. Littleboy
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      11-15-2004, 03:21 PM

"David J Taylor" <david-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> David J. Littleboy wrote:
> []
> > The P&S cameras use the CCD for AF and have to read out several
> > frames to focus. So the fastest P&S is going to be a lot slower than
> > the slowest dSLR.
> >
> > Even worse, the CCD-based AF systems often focus on something
> > contrasty in the background instead of your subject. This makes the
> > EVF cameras attractive, since you can see when the AF is messing up.

>
> The Nikon 8400 includes an additional focus sensor in addition to contrast
> detection and is much faster in focussing.


It seems you are wrong on this.

"A half-press of the shutter release results in focus lock in just under
half a second in most cases. It can take around a second or so in more
difficult focusing situations. Low light focusing was better than average
(thanks to the AF-assist lamp), but not the best I've seen."

In other words, a lot slower than the slowest dSLR.

> In the Nikon 990 (IIRC) the logic is to focus on the nearer part of the
> scene.


That only works if some sensor area actually finds the nearest part of the
scene. The problem is that contrast detection finds contrast in the
sensitive area, and the sensitive areas tend to be too large. The general
recommendation (even with dSLRs) is to only use one AF sensor, point at the
subject, half press, and recompose.

> On the Nikon 5700 and 8400 you can get a red rectangle showing to
> highlight the actual area of the scene which has been used for focus - I
> always have this enabled and find it invaluable.
>
> Later cameras offer you the optional choice of scene area to focus on,
> just like an SLR.


If you think there is _anything_ about small-sensor cameras that is "just
like an SLR", I've got a bridge to sell you.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan




 
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