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Nikon F2as and pre AI lenses

 
 
goldtech
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      04-03-2009, 04:33 AM
Hi,

Been trying to understand the compatibility issues of nikkor lens/
nikon camers.

Say I have a Nikon f2as DP-12 finder. If I use a pre AI lens it would
work but I would have stop-down light metering?

But if I used a pre-AI lens on a Nikon F Photomic then the metering
would be that the lens would be largest F-stop until I shoot? Or would
it be stop-down as I meter?

What would hapen if i put a Photomic finder on the F2as body?

....but the pre-AI could be serviced to make it AI?

thanks,

Lee G.
 
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Apteryx
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      04-04-2009, 06:59 AM
goldtech wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Been trying to understand the compatibility issues of nikkor lens/
> nikon camers.
>
> Say I have a Nikon f2as DP-12 finder. If I use a pre AI lens it would
> work but I would have stop-down light metering?


Yes. At least I think so. I have an F2AS, but no pre AI lenses. The
finder allows you to flip up the AI metering tab so as to mount a pre AI
lens without damage, but has no prong to be captured by the pre AI
lens's metering fork to tell the camera what aperture has been pre-set
on the lens.

> But if I used a pre-AI lens on a Nikon F Photomic then the metering
> would be that the lens would be largest F-stop until I shoot? Or would
> it be stop-down as I meter?


I think the former - since I believe the F's Photomic finder (and some
older finders has the necessary prong that the F2AS lacks (but I've
never owned an F)

> What would hapen if i put a Photomic finder on the F2as body?


The DP-12 finder that makes an F2 an F2AS is also described as a
Photomic finder. But if you mean one of the Photomic finders designed
for the F, then my first guess would be that you would break one of
them... probably the finder, because it would be hard to break an F2 body.

> ...but the pre-AI could be serviced to make it AI?


Yes, if you can still find someone to do it.

Apteryx
 
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Robert Coe
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      04-04-2009, 11:55 AM
On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 19:59:43 +1300, Apteryx <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: goldtech wrote:
: > Hi,
: >
: > Been trying to understand the compatibility issues of nikkor lens/
: > nikon camers.
: >
: > Say I have a Nikon f2as DP-12 finder. If I use a pre AI lens it would
: > work but I would have stop-down light metering?
:
: Yes. At least I think so. I have an F2AS, but no pre AI lenses. The
: finder allows you to flip up the AI metering tab so as to mount a pre AI
: lens without damage, but has no prong to be captured by the pre AI
: lens's metering fork to tell the camera what aperture has been pre-set
: on the lens.
:
: > But if I used a pre-AI lens on a Nikon F Photomic then the metering
: > would be that the lens would be largest F-stop until I shoot? Or would
: > it be stop-down as I meter?
:
: I think the former - since I believe the F's Photomic finder (and some
: older finders has the necessary prong that the F2AS lacks (but I've
: never owned an F)

I never owned an F either, but my F2 did have a prong to engage the fork on
the lens, which remained at full aperture until the shutter button was pressed
(and returned to full aperture as soon as the exposure was complete). That
feature may have been new on the F2; my recollection is that the front
overhang that contained the prong didn't exist on the F's finder. But that
recollection could well be wrong.

One thing I am sure of is that you had to be careful how you mounted the lens.
If the prong was in the wrong position, the fork could push it out of the way
without engaging it, and the aperture settings wouldn't get passed to the
finder.

Bob
 
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Rol_Lei Nut
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      04-04-2009, 01:48 PM
Robert Coe wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 19:59:43 +1300, Apteryx <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> : goldtech wrote:
> : > Hi,
> : >
> : > Been trying to understand the compatibility issues of nikkor lens/
> : > nikon camers.
> : >
> : > Say I have a Nikon f2as DP-12 finder. If I use a pre AI lens it would
> : > work but I would have stop-down light metering?
> :
> : Yes. At least I think so. I have an F2AS, but no pre AI lenses. The
> : finder allows you to flip up the AI metering tab so as to mount a pre AI
> : lens without damage, but has no prong to be captured by the pre AI
> : lens's metering fork to tell the camera what aperture has been pre-set
> : on the lens.
> :
> : > But if I used a pre-AI lens on a Nikon F Photomic then the metering
> : > would be that the lens would be largest F-stop until I shoot? Or would
> : > it be stop-down as I meter?
> :
> : I think the former - since I believe the F's Photomic finder (and some
> : older finders has the necessary prong that the F2AS lacks (but I've
> : never owned an F)
>
> I never owned an F either, but my F2 did have a prong to engage the fork on
> the lens, which remained at full aperture until the shutter button was pressed
> (and returned to full aperture as soon as the exposure was complete). That
> feature may have been new on the F2; my recollection is that the front
> overhang that contained the prong didn't exist on the F's finder. But that
> recollection could well be wrong.
>
> One thing I am sure of is that you had to be careful how you mounted the lens.
> If the prong was in the wrong position, the fork could push it out of the way
> without engaging it, and the aperture settings wouldn't get passed to the
> finder.



Ye Gods!

And if you set a non-AI lens to f/5.6 you'll get warts on your hands...

What a pearl of misinformation!!!!


BTW:
The F FTn and the non-AI F2 Photomics are conceptually the same (at
least as far as the prong is concerned).
Nikkormats and F Photomics prior to the FTn required setting the lens to
5.6.
The prong had NOTHING to do with the so-called auto-diaphram mechanism
(which was NOT new on the F2).



 
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Robert Coe
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      04-04-2009, 03:44 PM
On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:48:39 +0200, Rol_Lei Nut
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: Robert Coe wrote:
: > On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 19:59:43 +1300, Apteryx <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: > : goldtech wrote:
: > : > Hi,
: > : >
: > : > Been trying to understand the compatibility issues of nikkor lens/
: > : > nikon camers.
: > : >
: > : > Say I have a Nikon f2as DP-12 finder. If I use a pre AI lens it would
: > : > work but I would have stop-down light metering?
: > :
: > : Yes. At least I think so. I have an F2AS, but no pre AI lenses. The
: > : finder allows you to flip up the AI metering tab so as to mount a pre AI
: > : lens without damage, but has no prong to be captured by the pre AI
: > : lens's metering fork to tell the camera what aperture has been pre-set
: > : on the lens.
: > :
: > : > But if I used a pre-AI lens on a Nikon F Photomic then the metering
: > : > would be that the lens would be largest F-stop until I shoot? Or would
: > : > it be stop-down as I meter?
: > :
: > : I think the former - since I believe the F's Photomic finder (and some
: > : older finders has the necessary prong that the F2AS lacks (but I've
: > : never owned an F)
: >
: > I never owned an F either, but my F2 did have a prong to engage the fork on
: > the lens, which remained at full aperture until the shutter button was pressed
: > (and returned to full aperture as soon as the exposure was complete). That
: > feature may have been new on the F2; my recollection is that the front
: > overhang that contained the prong didn't exist on the F's finder. But that
: > recollection could well be wrong.
: >
: > One thing I am sure of is that you had to be careful how you mounted the lens.
: > If the prong was in the wrong position, the fork could push it out of the way
: > without engaging it, and the aperture settings wouldn't get passed to the
: > finder.
:
:
: Ye Gods!
:
: And if you set a non-AI lens to f/5.6 you'll get warts on your hands...
:
: What a pearl of misinformation!!!!

I suppose it's possible. My own impression is that the misinformation lies
only in things you think I said but didn't.

: BTW:
: The F FTn and the non-AI F2 Photomics are conceptually the same (at
: least as far as the prong is concerned).
: Nikkormats and F Photomics prior to the FTn required setting the lens to
: 5.6.

My wife's Nikkormat did have to have the lens set to f/5.6 when attaching it
to the camera; my F2 didn't. But on the F2 you did sometimes have to twist the
setting ring back and forth to make sure the fork engaged the prong.

: The prong had NOTHING to do with the so-called auto-diaphram mechanism
: (which was NOT new on the F2).

The auto-diaphragm mechanism would have worked without the prong, but that's
hardly the point. Without the prong, the lens wouldn't have been able to
inform the camera of its aperture setting, and the metering system wouldn't
have known how to account for the effect of the automatic diaphragm.

Anyway, I mentioned the auto-diaphragm mechanism only because it was part of
the OP's question.

Bob
 
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Rol_Lei Nut
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Posts: n/a

 
      04-04-2009, 04:10 PM
Robert Coe wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:48:39 +0200, Rol_Lei Nut
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> : Robert Coe wrote:
> : > On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 19:59:43 +1300, Apteryx <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> : > : goldtech wrote:
> : > : > Hi,
> : > : >
> : > : > Been trying to understand the compatibility issues of nikkor lens/
> : > : > nikon camers.
> : > : >
> : > : > Say I have a Nikon f2as DP-12 finder. If I use a pre AI lens it would
> : > : > work but I would have stop-down light metering?
> : > :
> : > : Yes. At least I think so. I have an F2AS, but no pre AI lenses. The
> : > : finder allows you to flip up the AI metering tab so as to mount a pre AI
> : > : lens without damage, but has no prong to be captured by the pre AI
> : > : lens's metering fork to tell the camera what aperture has been pre-set
> : > : on the lens.
> : > :
> : > : > But if I used a pre-AI lens on a Nikon F Photomic then the metering
> : > : > would be that the lens would be largest F-stop until I shoot? Or would
> : > : > it be stop-down as I meter?
> : > :
> : > : I think the former - since I believe the F's Photomic finder (and some
> : > : older finders has the necessary prong that the F2AS lacks (but I've
> : > : never owned an F)
> : >
> : > I never owned an F either, but my F2 did have a prong to engage the fork on
> : > the lens, which remained at full aperture until the shutter button was pressed
> : > (and returned to full aperture as soon as the exposure was complete). That
> : > feature may have been new on the F2; my recollection is that the front
> : > overhang that contained the prong didn't exist on the F's finder. But that
> : > recollection could well be wrong.
> : >
> : > One thing I am sure of is that you had to be careful how you mounted the lens.
> : > If the prong was in the wrong position, the fork could push it out of the way
> : > without engaging it, and the aperture settings wouldn't get passed to the
> : > finder.
> :
> :
> : Ye Gods!
> :
> : And if you set a non-AI lens to f/5.6 you'll get warts on your hands...
> :
> : What a pearl of misinformation!!!!
>
> I suppose it's possible. My own impression is that the misinformation lies
> only in things you think I said but didn't.
>
> : BTW:
> : The F FTn and the non-AI F2 Photomics are conceptually the same (at
> : least as far as the prong is concerned).
> : Nikkormats and F Photomics prior to the FTn required setting the lens to
> : 5.6.
>
> My wife's Nikkormat did have to have the lens set to f/5.6 when attaching it
> to the camera; my F2 didn't. But on the F2 you did sometimes have to twist the
> setting ring back and forth to make sure the fork engaged the prong.



That's SOP on non-AI Photomics and is called indexing: Nothing at all to
do with the prong being "in the wrong position" (or with the fork
actually engaging the prong - it "informed" the Photomic of the maximum
aperture of the lens being used).
 
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Geoffrey S. Mendelson
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      04-04-2009, 06:42 PM
Rol_Lei Nut wrote:
> That's SOP on non-AI Photomics and is called indexing: Nothing at all to
> do with the prong being "in the wrong position" (or with the fork
> actually engaging the prong - it "informed" the Photomic of the maximum
> aperture of the lens being used).


First ALL Nikon F finders with meters were called Photomic, it was a brand
name. It was first used with the 1964 Photomic F finder, which was coupled
to the apeture ring via a "fork" and shutter speed dial.

AFAIK the name persisted until the end of the F2, as the F3 did not have
a light meter in the finder, it was in the camera body.

At least of the very early Nikon F series cameras had to have the F stop
set at 5.6 when you put it on the camera. Once you mounted the lens on
the camera, you twisited the apeture ring to "index" the meter.

I think later cameras did not require you to have the lens set at f5.6 when
you put them on the camera.

All of the pre-AI F2 finders required indexing.

That was the whole point of the AI (auto indexing) system of 1977.

Note that there were two style of pre-AI meters. The first used an analog
device (resistor strip) to determine the F stop. They are impossible to
replace, no parts have been available for almost 30 years.

The later ones made in mid 1977 and then all of the AI ones used a digtial
system to determine the F stop. This consisted of a set of discrete contacts
and individual resistors for each F stop. They can be rebuilt.

You can tell the difference by looking at the little meter needle on the top.
If it has an exta little window on the negative side (aka long tail), it has
the digital strip.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel (E-Mail Removed) N3OWJ/4X1GM
 
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