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Nikon PB-6 Bellows

 
 
Nicholas O. Lindan
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      05-17-2007, 03:26 PM
"Toby" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:464c4bea$0$92333$(E-Mail Removed)...
> The PB6 uses a staggered double cable release to control auto-aperture
> lenses. First the lens is stopped down manually by cable release #1,
> then #2 trips the shutter. No good with G lenses or DXes.


Nikon sells an adapter that will do the same thing - sort of a short
extension tube with a cable socket on it. Also useful for reversed
lenses. You need the special Nikon cable release.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com


 
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David Ruether
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      05-17-2007, 04:48 PM


"Matt Clara" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
> "Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote in message news:zhL2i.8337$(E-Mail Removed) t...
>> Matt Clara wrote:
>>> "Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote in message news:itK2i.29116$(E-Mail Removed). net...


>>>>Here's a page with a decent summary of various bellows:
>>>><http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/michaeliu/cameras/shared/ff2macro/ff2bellow.htm>
>>>>PB-6 Bellows
>>>>A twist of the knob lets you vary the lens extension at will, producing frame-filling images of the most minute subjects.
>>>>Provides continuously variable extension from 48mm to 208mm. For motorized bodies or newer built in AF cameras, the Bellows
>>>>Spacer PB-6D enables moving a Nikon F5, F4E, F4s or F3 with MD-4 on the PB-6 rail without interference. * Note: An Auto
>>>>Extension Ring is required when the PB-6 is used with the F5.


>>> That was me, though it doesn't cover the PB-6. No, you won't need an extension ring for the D200 unless you have the battery
>>> pack on it (MB-200?), it's strong enough for anything up to a 70-200 f2.8 (though why you'd want to use one of those, I don't
>>> know, but I did try mine on a PB-5, and it worked). I believe only the PB-4 has swings and shifts, though I could be wrong.
>>> These bellows are great fun. I hope to aquire a PB-4 here, eventually.


>> Cool... but... where is that page?


> http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/


>> So yes, it'll control aperture on G lenses?


> That I don't know; however, considering the PB-6 is older than G lenses, I doubt it (I'd certainly check with Nikon before I bet
> the bank on it).


The G lenses can be mounted, but as with Nikon bodies that all permit
mounting, only ones that are G-compatible will keep the aperture open
for focus, and permit metering - so the PB-6 will not work for G lenses.
I would not use a 300mm f2.8 for macro work (too ungainly, and it takes
LOTS of extension for only somewhat closer focusing ability [and the lens
may not be sharp with the extension added]). Heavy lenses and bodies
may also introduce instability between them due to the spring-loaded
nature of the bayonette mount on the camera (though the D200 should
be OK). BTW, I have several Nikon extension tubes FS on my web
page that in various combinations can give a large variety of extensions
compactly...

>> I would like to try the 300mm f/2.8 for hand held bee, butterfly & dragonfly closeups that fill the frame... maybe entirely
>> impractical? They run away from 200mm & the +2 diopter closeup lens degrades image quality.
>> To be of any use on a tripod, I'll need a much sturdier tripod but the rig I'm looking at has a slide holder which I could use to
>> hold little flowers & such... and duplicate my old slides. I suspect I'll need a special bellows lens for that configuration
>> though, my 105 macro lens is awfully long.


A slide duplicator attachment does make things easier - but near 1:1,
it is VERY frustrating adjusting magnification, size, and focus...

> If you could pull that off, you could be a professional athlete of the first magnitude! No way you can handhold a bellows setup.
> I've used mine with a beanbag, and that came out ok, though you really need two bean bags, one for the bellows and one for the
> camera. Annika1980 has gotten some nice images such as you describe using a 400mm f5.6 on a 20D with a monopod--manual focus, no
> less...
> --
> www.mattclara.com


On my web site here ("Bugs") at www.donferrario.com/ruether/phun.html,
you will find hand-held photos of insects, some up to 3X on film. The
secret is that I used for most a 200mm f4 (light and small - and sharp)
with a 2X converter + achromat with a TTL flash mounted at the front
(ONLY ONE!) pointed at the subject focused point (the relatively large
flash head acts like a soft box, giving a nice light - and it stops action).
With patience and many failures on the approaches, the first flash seems
to "anchor" the insect, giving me opportunity to explore different framings.
For instance, dragon flies skip away when you are within 6-8 feet, but
if you slowly and carefully move up on one and get that flash in, you can
then get very close and shoot what you want (or even move grass out
of the way from around it...).
--
David Ruether
(E-Mail Removed)
http://www.donferrario.com/ruether



 
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Paul Furman
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      05-17-2007, 05:57 PM
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
> Paul Furman <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote:
>
>>I would like to try the 300mm f/2.8 for hand held bee,
>>butterfly & dragonfly closeups that fill the
>>frame... maybe entirely impractical? They run away from
>>200mm & the +2 diopter closeup lens degrades image
>>quality.

>
> I would think a 300mm f/2.8 is going to be far too large
> to be supported by a bellows. Maybe an f/4 or an f/5.6
> at that focal length would work though.
>
> With the 200mm lense you might try an achromatic
> diopter, which will probably give better results.
>
> The Olympus MCON-35 is a +2.9 diopter that fits a 62mm
> thread. The Nikon #5T (+1.5 diopter) and #6T (+2.9
> diopter) also fit 62 mm threads. The Canon 500D +2.0
> diopters come in 77, 72, and 58mm threads.
>
> The Canon 500D diopters are the most expensive, but you
> can probably find one that does not require a
> step-up/down adapter to match your lens, and the larger
> one will certainly avoid any vignetting.


I have a 500D +2 diopter and it does work fine on the 300/2.8 even
though it's (only) 77mm on a 112mm lens thread, at closest focus, the
rest of that glass isn't used. +2 diopter does have a huge impact on the
focusing distance at 300mm though.

I was able to test the extension tube concept with a modified lensbaby
at about 50mm (the PB-6 goes down to 45mm, here's a comparison to the
closeup lens:
<http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/photography/2007-05-17-macro>
The lensbaby setup is super wobbly, maybe I'll try it in full sun.

> I have an MCON-35 +2.9 diopter, but have never tried it
> on a 200mm lense. It does well in front of a 105mm
> macro though, and have tried that with a 2x telextender
> too. I'd expect a similar configuration with your 200mm
> to be better than hanging a 300mm f/2.8 lense off a
> bellows.
>
>>To be of any use on a tripod, I'll need a much sturdier
>>tripod but the rig I'm looking at has a slide holder
>>which I could use to hold little flowers & such... and
>>duplicate my old slides. I suspect I'll need a special
>>bellows lens for that configuration though, my 105 macro
>>lens is awfully long.

>
>
> Enlarging lenses work extremely well at the end of a
> bellows...


I guess so... especially if doing tilts on a PB4... that would be more
fun than the apparently tilt-less PB-6.

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com
 
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Paul Furman
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      05-17-2007, 08:36 PM
David Ruether wrote:

> "Matt Clara" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
>
>>"Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote in message news:zhL2i.8337$(E-Mail Removed) t...
>>
>>>Matt Clara wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote in message news:itK2i.29116$(E-Mail Removed). net...

>
>>>>>Here's a page with a decent summary of various bellows:
>>>>><http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/michaeliu/cameras/shared/ff2macro/ff2bellow.htm>
>>>>>PB-6 Bellows
>>>>>A twist of the knob lets you vary the lens extension at will, producing frame-filling images of the most minute subjects.
>>>>>Provides continuously variable extension from 48mm to 208mm. For motorized bodies or newer built in AF cameras, the Bellows
>>>>>Spacer PB-6D enables moving a Nikon F5, F4E, F4s or F3 with MD-4 on the PB-6 rail without interference. * Note: An Auto
>>>>>Extension Ring is required when the PB-6 is used with the F5.

>
>>>>That was me, though it doesn't cover the PB-6. No, you won't need an extension ring for the D200 unless you have the battery
>>>>pack on it (MB-200?), it's strong enough for anything up to a 70-200 f2.8 (though why you'd want to use one of those, I don't
>>>>know, but I did try mine on a PB-5, and it worked). I believe only the PB-4 has swings and shifts, though I could be wrong.
>>>>These bellows are great fun. I hope to aquire a PB-4 here, eventually.

>
>>>Cool... but... where is that page?

>
>>http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/

>
>>>So yes, it'll control aperture on G lenses?

>
>>That I don't know; however, considering the PB-6 is older than G lenses, I doubt it (I'd certainly check with Nikon before I bet
>>the bank on it).

>
> The G lenses can be mounted, but as with Nikon bodies that all permit
> mounting, only ones that are G-compatible will keep the aperture open
> for focus, and permit metering - so the PB-6 will not work for G lenses.


It does have the option to either have the aperture all the way open
while composing with AI lenses though... and stop down for the shot so I
don't see why it wouldn't work with a G lens using the cable connector.
The D200 would just have to be told the aperture range.

> I would not use a 300mm f2.8 for macro work (too ungainly, and it takes
> LOTS of extension for only somewhat closer focusing ability [and the lens
> may not be sharp with the extension added]).


Well, I did some testing:
<http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/photography/2007-05-17-macro&PG=2&PIC=8>
And in the end the 105 f/2.8 VR macro performs useably with stacked
teleconverters 2x & 1.4x (294mm) in daylight at ISO 800 hand held at a
good magnification for butterflies to fill the frame. The D200 read f/11
& 210mm with the 1.4 teleconverter mounted to the body???, who knows
what the aperture actually works out to be. Curiously, the 300mm f/2.8
lens with 50mm extension gave me more working distance: about 4 feet
versus 3 feet. Is that mathematically possible? But the extension tube
setup was not as sharp.. or maybe just too wobbly to handle. The +2
diopter closeup lens on the 300 lens made too much magnification for a
butterfly. I did get one sharp shot at ISO 1600 with the 300 plus 1.4 TC
plus the closeup lens which comes close to the quality of the 105 micro,
perhaps because this one was focused at infinity (30 inches away):
<http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/photography/2007-05-17-macro&PG=2&PIC=7>
Those are all full pixel crops, the dollar bill shots on the previous
page give an idea of the magnification uncropped.

> Heavy lenses and bodies
> may also introduce instability between them due to the spring-loaded
> nature of the bayonette mount on the camera (though the D200 should
> be OK). BTW, I have several Nikon extension tubes FS on my web
> page that in various combinations can give a large variety of extensions
> compactly...
>
>>>I would like to try the 300mm f/2.8 for hand held bee, butterfly & dragonfly closeups that fill the frame... maybe entirely
>>>impractical? They run away from 200mm & the +2 diopter closeup lens degrades image quality.
>>>To be of any use on a tripod, I'll need a much sturdier tripod but the rig I'm looking at has a slide holder which I could use to
>>>hold little flowers & such... and duplicate my old slides. I suspect I'll need a special bellows lens for that configuration
>>>though, my 105 macro lens is awfully long.

>
> A slide duplicator attachment does make things easier - but near 1:1,
> it is VERY frustrating adjusting magnification, size, and focus...


Better than *without* a copy stand of some sort though. The PB-6 is the
way to go for that... I get your point though that's it's still really
tedious work.... plus I would need another specialized lens for that.

>>If you could pull that off, you could be a professional athlete of the first magnitude! No way you can handhold a bellows setup.
>>I've used mine with a beanbag, and that came out ok, though you really need two bean bags, one for the bellows and one for the
>>camera. Annika1980 has gotten some nice images such as you describe using a 400mm f5.6 on a 20D with a monopod--manual focus, no
>>less...

>
> On my web site here ("Bugs") at www.donferrario.com/ruether/phun.html,
> you will find hand-held photos of insects, some up to 3X on film. The
> secret is that I used for most a 200mm f4 (light and small - and sharp)
> with a 2X converter + achromat with a TTL flash mounted at the front


Nice "hummingbird-moth":
http://www.donferrario.com/ruether/w...z/bugs/b62.jpg

Does a flash even do anything in full daylight? I don't have an
off-camera flash & don't use my on-camera much. I have thought about
those mini Nikon flash units that can be mounted on the front of a macro
lens.. two of them could make real nice 1:1 macros and they can be
placed off camera without cables in a pinch for general flash work.

> (ONLY ONE!) pointed at the subject focused point (the relatively large
> flash head acts like a soft box, giving a nice light - and it stops action).
> With patience and many failures on the approaches, the first flash seems
> to "anchor" the insect, giving me opportunity to explore different framings.
> For instance, dragon flies skip away when you are within 6-8 feet, but
> if you slowly and carefully move up on one and get that flash in, you can
> then get very close and shoot what you want (or even move grass out
> of the way from around it...).


Deer in the headlights effect... hmmm, clever.

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com
 
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Paul Furman
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      05-17-2007, 08:37 PM
Paul Furman wrote:

> I was able to test the extension tube concept with a modified lensbaby
> at about 50mm (the PB-6 goes down to 45mm, here's a comparison to the
> closeup lens:
> <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/photography/2007-05-17-macro>
>
> The lensbaby setup is super wobbly, maybe I'll try it in full sun.


btw, I did add some real-world full sun tests to that set. I still
needed high ISO.
 
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Paul Furman
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      05-17-2007, 09:20 PM
Paul Furman wrote:

> David Ruether wrote:
>
>> Matt Clara wrote
>>
>>> http://www.mattclara.com/misc/nikonbellows/

>>
>>>> So yes, it'll control aperture on G lenses?

>>
>>> That I don't know; however, considering the PB-6 is older than G
>>> lenses, I doubt it (I'd certainly check with Nikon before I bet the
>>> bank on it).

>>
>> The G lenses can be mounted, but as with Nikon bodies that all permit
>> mounting, only ones that are G-compatible will keep the aperture open
>> for focus, and permit metering - so the PB-6 will not work for G lenses.

>
> It does have the option to either have the aperture all the way open
> while composing with AI lenses though... and stop down for the shot so I
> don't see why it wouldn't work with a G lens using the cable connector.
> The D200 would just have to be told the aperture range.


You know, I don't think this will work. Looking again at an AI & G lens,
they both spring to a stopped down position when unmounted but the AI
lens will only stop down as far as it's ring says & the G lens will stop
all the way down. The cable connector thing is an AR-10 and it's just a
mechanical plunger that holds the spring open & when pressed, lets go
for the aperture to stop down wherever the ring is set. One could put a
little piece of tape on there to set the aperture on a G lens but it's
not going to be automatic.

<http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/nikon_articles/other/close-up_macro/macro_8b.html>
"When a lens is normally mounted on to the bellows, aperture control is
only available through the lens aperture ring. There are no electronic
contacts on the bellows to facilitate camera body aperture controls.
During shutter triggering, automatic aperture stop-down will only
function if the AR-7 (two ISO thread mechanical plungers) or AR-10 (one
ISO thread mechanical plunger and one 2-pin electronic connector) double
cable releases are used.

With either one of the double cable releases, one of the ISO thread
mechanical plunger must be screwed into the bellow’s front column where
the lens is mounted and the second cable (mechanical or electronic) will
be connected to the camera body’s normal cable release port."

<http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/37071-REG/Nikon_2670_AR_10_Double_Cable_Release.html>
$ 79.95
"When used together with the PB-6 Bellows Focusing Attachment, the AR-10
will stop the lens down to the preselected aperture at the moment of
exposure. The AR-10 is for the two-pin cameras such as the FM2N, FM3A &
F3 with motor drives, N70, etc.

The AR-10 can also be used with the F5, F100, F90, F90x, N90 & N90s
cameras when accompanied by the MC-25 Adapter Cord."

Something like this would work only if it also had a built in aperture ring:
<http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/nikon_articles/other/close-up_macro/macro_8c.html>
" When the lens is reverse-mounted, auto stop-down aperture control can
be achieved with the aid of the BR-6 Auto-Diaphragm Adapter which
incorporates a plunger-type cable release connector to accept the
mechanical cable release from either the AR-7 or AR-10 double cable
release."

It just doesn't make sense to get a bellows if I can't use my macro G
lens on it.

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com
 
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Rita Ä Berkowitz
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      05-17-2007, 09:46 PM
Paul Furman wrote:

> You know, I don't think this will work. Looking again at an AI & G
> lens, they both spring to a stopped down position when unmounted but
> the AI lens will only stop down as far as it's ring says & the G lens
> will stop all the way down. The cable connector thing is an AR-10 and
> it's just a mechanical plunger that holds the spring open & when
> pressed, lets go for the aperture to stop down wherever the ring is
> set. One could put a little piece of tape on there to set the
> aperture on a G lens but it's not going to be automatic.


Way too much trouble screwing around with bellows, especially if you
primarily shoot handheld. Just get an old 50/1.4mm AI Nikkor and reverse
mount it in front of the 105mm VR and you're kicking with some decent
handheld 3:1 macro.

<http://www.geocities.com/ritaberk2007/small_stuff.htm>







Rita

 
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David Ruether
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      05-18-2007, 04:34 PM


"Rita Ä Berkowitz" <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Paul Furman wrote:


>> You know, I don't think this will work. Looking again at an AI & G
>> lens, they both spring to a stopped down position when unmounted but
>> the AI lens will only stop down as far as it's ring says & the G lens
>> will stop all the way down. The cable connector thing is an AR-10 and
>> it's just a mechanical plunger that holds the spring open & when
>> pressed, lets go for the aperture to stop down wherever the ring is
>> set. One could put a little piece of tape on there to set the
>> aperture on a G lens but it's not going to be automatic.


> Way too much trouble screwing around with bellows, especially if you primarily shoot handheld. Just get an old 50/1.4mm AI Nikkor
> and reverse mount it in front of the 105mm VR and you're kicking with some decent handheld 3:1 macro.
> <http://www.geocities.com/ritaberk2007/small_stuff.htm> Rita


I second this - it is the easiest and cheapest way to get good
high-magnification images. Use the reverse 50mm f1.4 set wide
open and the 105 set at what you want (preferably f11 or so
for best results). Unfortunately, though, the 105 shortens its FL
during close focus and the 50 shortens it more (why it works),
and the end result is that there is not much room between the
lens and subject. You can add a 2X converter, but not with the
G version...
--
David Ruether
(E-Mail Removed)
http://www.donferrario.com/ruether


 
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David Ruether
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      05-18-2007, 04:53 PM


"Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote in message news:7133i.8407$(E-Mail Removed) t...
> David Ruether wrote:


>> The G lenses can be mounted, but as with Nikon bodies that all permit
>> mounting, only ones that are G-compatible will keep the aperture open
>> for focus, and permit metering - so the PB-6 will not work for G lenses.


> It does have the option to either have the aperture all the way open while composing with AI lenses though... and stop down for
> the shot so I don't see why it wouldn't work with a G lens using the cable connector. The D200 would just have to be told the
> aperture range.


As you have since found, that %$#& Nikon move to the "G"
mount has cabolixed many good old things about Nikon gear,
including the use of their tubes, bellows, converters, older
bodies, etc. BAD, Nikon, VERY BAD!!!!

>> I would not use a 300mm f2.8 for macro work (too ungainly, and it takes
>> LOTS of extension for only somewhat closer focusing ability [and the lens
>> may not be sharp with the extension added]).


> I did get one sharp shot at ISO 1600 with the 300 plus 1.4 TC plus the closeup lens which comes close to the quality of the 105
> micro, perhaps because this one was focused at infinity (30 inches away):
> <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=Misc/photography/2007-05-17-macro&PG=2&PIC=7>


>> A slide duplicator attachment does make things easier - but near 1:1,
>> it is VERY frustrating adjusting magnification, size, and focus...


> Better than *without* a copy stand of some sort though. The PB-6 is the way to go for that... I get your point though that's it's
> still really tedious work.... plus I would need another specialized lens for that.


It's a *pain*!

>> On my web site here ("Bugs") at www.donferrario.com/ruether/phun.html,
>> you will find hand-held photos of insects, some up to 3X on film. The
>> secret is that I used for most a 200mm f4 (light and small - and sharp)
>> with a 2X converter + achromat with a TTL flash mounted at the front


> Nice "hummingbird-moth":
> http://www.donferrario.com/ruether/w...z/bugs/b62.jpg


This one was shot with a 300mm f4.5 and 2X with flash - it
is the flash that makes all this possible (and lotsa tries...! ;-).

> Does a flash even do anything in full daylight? I don't have an off-camera flash & don't use my on-camera much.


Yes! An SB-24 or similar, using a remote cord and bracket and pointed
directly at where the subject is focused (use a fixed focus point and move
the camera/lens), can cover even very small effective stops (like f45)
if close enough - and easily "swamp" daylight.

> I have thought about those mini Nikon flash units that can be mounted on the front of a macro lens.. two of them could make real
> nice 1:1 macros and they can be placed off camera without cables in a pinch for general flash work.


Do not use two! Too many people do and get either very flat
lighting and/or double shadows. Yuck!

>> (ONLY ONE!) pointed at the subject focused point (the relatively large
>> flash head acts like a soft box, giving a nice light - and it stops action).
>> With patience and many failures on the approaches, the first flash seems
>> to "anchor" the insect, giving me opportunity to explore different framings.
>> For instance, dragon flies skip away when you are within 6-8 feet, but
>> if you slowly and carefully move up on one and get that flash in, you can
>> then get very close and shoot what you want (or even move grass out
>> of the way from around it...).


> Deer in the headlights effect... hmmm, clever.
> --
> Paul Furman Photography


It was a neat discovery. I could actually touch that large dragonfly
on my web site and clear the grass around it after the first flash...! ;-)
And the flash makes the use of optimum stops for lens sharpness
and DOF (usually hard in macro) easy. With the large flash head
near the subject, the lighting is soft and surprisingly natural-looking.

--
David Ruether
(E-Mail Removed)
http://www.donferrario.com/ruether


 
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Nicholas O. Lindan
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      05-18-2007, 05:16 PM
"David Ruether" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

> Do not use two! Too many people do and get either very flat
> lighting and/or double shadows. Yuck!
> > > (ONLY ONE!) pointed at the subject focused point (the relatively large
> > > flash head acts like a soft box, giving a nice light


I found a good macro flash could be made using a pocket
light-bouncer gizmo. Aim the flash head forwards/slight angle
and the bouncer reflects the light down on the subject right in
front of the lens. Very convenient with TTL metering. A
variation is to use a potato-masher flash on the side and the
head swiveled over a bit so the light is up and to the side.
A few minutes with a mat knife, some velcro and
white card and a DIY unit is yours for pennies, or:

http://www.stofen.com/Store/TwoWay.htm

> > 50/1.4mm AI Nikkor and reverse mount it in front of the 105mm VR

> Unfortunately, though, the 105 shortens its FL
> You can add a 2X converter, but not with the
> G version...


You can mount the converter on the back of the reversed 50mm,
but that's getting silly.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
"David Ruether" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:f2klm0


 
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