«

Hi,

I've just bought on eBay a kit based on the Praktica BX20, this came with
Prakticar lenses
135/2.8, 28/2.8 50/2.4 and two Sigma zooms. I have been dredging
through eBay and photo
dealers sites and am aware that there appear to be the same lenses "badged"
Praktica and Carl Zeiss Jena.
Some of the Carl Zeiss lenses command high prices, especially the "Sonnar"
"Flektacon" - whatever that means?.

Having received excellent advice on this group re suitable slide film for
landscape and flora photography, I hope that some of you gurus may be able
to enlighten me on the various lenses from Praktica and its associates.
Using slow speed slide film and often using extension tubes to take very
close up photos of
plants the lens quality is very important to me.

In case you wonder why I've gone for the Praktica kit it is simply cost, I
needed a reasonably comprehensive outfit and had less than £100 to spend.

So far I have found the BX20 amazingly versatile, it may not have the "feel"
of one of the Japanese
marques but it seems to "have it where it counts".

Thanks in anticipation,
Tony

'Carl Zeiss' and 'Carl Zeiss Jena' are quite different makes. Both are
German but Jena is in the former East Germany. Before the wall came down the
Jena lenses were much cheaper but considered optically inferior. I'm not
sure anyone not using a test bench would notice any difference outside their
bank account.
Tony <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:cajnla$pli$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi,
>
> I've just bought on eBay a kit based on the Praktica BX20, this came with
> Prakticar lenses
> 135/2.8, 28/2.8 50/2.4 and two Sigma zooms. I have been dredging
> through eBay and photo
> dealers sites and am aware that there appear to be the same lenses
"badged"
> Praktica and Carl Zeiss Jena.
> Some of the Carl Zeiss lenses command high prices, especially the "Sonnar"
> "Flektacon" - whatever that means?.
>
> Having received excellent advice on this group re suitable slide film for
> landscape and flora photography, I hope that some of you gurus may be able
> to enlighten me on the various lenses from Praktica and its associates.
> Using slow speed slide film and often using extension tubes to take very
> close up photos of
> plants the lens quality is very important to me.
>
> In case you wonder why I've gone for the Praktica kit it is simply cost, I
> needed a reasonably comprehensive outfit and had less than £100 to spend.
>
> So far I have found the BX20 amazingly versatile, it may not have the
"feel"
> of one of the Japanese
> marques but it seems to "have it where it counts".
>
> Thanks in anticipation,
> Tony
>
>
>
>

mark Dunn wrote:

> 'Carl Zeiss' and 'Carl Zeiss Jena' are quite different makes. Both are
> German but Jena is in the former East Germany. Before the wall came down the
> Jena lenses were much cheaper but considered optically inferior. I'm not
> sure anyone not using a test bench would notice any difference outside their
> bank account.

Oh yes they would! A colleague of mine once bought a CZ Jena zoom that
was like looking through the bottom of a milk bottle. OK, it was trying
to do a ridiculous task, 28-210 or something ludicrous, but even so
I can't see any half decent manufacturer selling anything so dire.

Perhaps their less ambitious stuff was better, but I'm not that eager to
find out.

"Tony" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:cajnla$pli$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi,
>
> I've just bought on eBay a kit based on the Praktica BX20, this came with
> Prakticar lenses
> 135/2.8, 28/2.8 50/2.4 and two Sigma zooms. I have been dredging
> through eBay and photo
> dealers sites and am aware that there appear to be the same lenses
"badged"
> Praktica and Carl Zeiss Jena.
> Some of the Carl Zeiss lenses command high prices, especially the "Sonnar"
> "Flektacon" - whatever that means?.

There is quite a bit of history to this which I'll attempt to summarise.

After the second world war the Carl Zeiss factory in Jena was nationalised
by the Communist East German government. A number of the Carl Zeiss
personnel fled to West Germany to establish a rival company, also called
Carl Zeiss. In the U.S. the West German operation won the right to the Carl
Zeiss name so that all Carl Zeiss Jena lenses exported to America were
labelled "Aus Jena".

Praktica SLRs were manufactured by Pentacon in Dresden. In the 50s and 60s
Pentacon cameras came with a choice of lens options, the basic package was a
body plus a 50/2.8 lens from Meyer Optik called the Domiplan. By paying a
bit more you could upgrade to a superior Carl Zeiss Jena lens like the
50/1.8 Pancolor. At this time most German lens designs from both East and
West were given names by the manufacturers. The Pancolar for instance was
the CZJ version of the Planar, a five element fast lens. Both Zeiss
operations also produced slower pre-war Tessar designs consisting of four
elements in three groups. The Sonnar was another term used by both East and
West German companies to denote a telephoto design also using four elements
in three groups. Flektogon was used by Jena to describe their wide
angle optics, the West German equivalent was Distagon.

With the launch of the B-series cameras in 1979 (of which your BX20 is a
descendent), these old naming conventions were done away with and all of the
East German lenses (and some new Japanese made lenses) for the new bayonet
mount were simply described as Prakticar. For example, what had previously
been the Carl Zeiss Flektogon 35 f2.4 lens in M42 mount became the CZJ
Prakticar 35/2.4 in B mount.

In the late eighties the whole East German camera and optical industry was
consolidated in one company. Carl Zeiss Jena became a brand that was applied
to lenses which had been designed by Pentacon and Meyer, not just those from
the original Zeiss factory. For instance, the Carl Zeiss Jena Prakticar
28/2.8 is just a rebadged Pentacon 28/2.8.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more confusing, the name was also
licensed to Sigma to produce a the Jenazoom range of zoom lenses available
in most of the manual focus mounts of the late eighties.

After the re-unification of Germany the West German Zeiss operation bought
out the Eastern company and lens production for consumer cameras ceased at
Jena.

Focal lengths and max apertures of the more common "genuine" Carl Zeiss Jena
lenses in B-mount are 20/2.8, 35/2.4, 50/1.4, and 135/3.5. The 28/2.8,
50/1.8 and 135/2.8 "Carl Zeiss Jena P" lenses are rebadged Pentacon lenses.

For more information check out www.praktica-users.com On this site you can
also see Jon Gibbs's flower close-ups taken with a 135/3.5 Zeiss Jena lens
and bellows which may interest you.

http://www.praktica-users.com/picindex.html

"Stewart Gardiner" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Tony" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:cajnla$pli$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've just bought on eBay a kit based on the Praktica BX20, this came
with
> > Prakticar lenses
> > 135/2.8, 28/2.8 50/2.4 and two Sigma zooms. I have been dredging
> > through eBay and photo
> > dealers sites and am aware that there appear to be the same lenses
> "badged"
> > Praktica and Carl Zeiss Jena.
> > Some of the Carl Zeiss lenses command high prices, especially the
"Sonnar"
> > "Flektacon" - whatever that means?.
>
> There is quite a bit of history to this which I'll attempt to summarise.
>
> After the second world war the Carl Zeiss factory in Jena was nationalised
> by the Communist East German government. A number of the Carl Zeiss
> personnel fled to West Germany to establish a rival company, also called
> Carl Zeiss. In the U.S. the West German operation won the right to the
Carl
> Zeiss name so that all Carl Zeiss Jena lenses exported to America were
> labelled "Aus Jena".
>
> Praktica SLRs were manufactured by Pentacon in Dresden. In the 50s and 60s
> Pentacon cameras came with a choice of lens options, the basic package was
a
> body plus a 50/2.8 lens from Meyer Optik called the Domiplan. By paying a
> bit more you could upgrade to a superior Carl Zeiss Jena lens like the
> 50/1.8 Pancolor. At this time most German lens designs from both East and
> West were given names by the manufacturers. The Pancolar for instance was
> the CZJ version of the Planar, a five element fast lens. Both Zeiss
> operations also produced slower pre-war Tessar designs consisting of four
> elements in three groups. The Sonnar was another term used by both East
and
> West German companies to denote a telephoto design also using four
elements
> in three groups. Flektogon was used by Jena to describe their wide
> angle optics, the West German equivalent was Distagon.
>
> With the launch of the B-series cameras in 1979 (of which your BX20 is a
> descendent), these old naming conventions were done away with and all of
the
> East German lenses (and some new Japanese made lenses) for the new bayonet
> mount were simply described as Prakticar. For example, what had previously
> been the Carl Zeiss Flektogon 35 f2.4 lens in M42 mount became the CZJ
> Prakticar 35/2.4 in B mount.
>
> In the late eighties the whole East German camera and optical industry was
> consolidated in one company. Carl Zeiss Jena became a brand that was
applied
> to lenses which had been designed by Pentacon and Meyer, not just those
from
> the original Zeiss factory. For instance, the Carl Zeiss Jena Prakticar
> 28/2.8 is just a rebadged Pentacon 28/2.8.
>
> Just when you thought it couldn't get any more confusing, the name was
also
> licensed to Sigma to produce a the Jenazoom range of zoom lenses available
> in most of the manual focus mounts of the late eighties.
>
> After the re-unification of Germany the West German Zeiss operation bought
> out the Eastern company and lens production for consumer cameras ceased at
> Jena.
>
> Focal lengths and max apertures of the more common "genuine" Carl Zeiss
Jena
> lenses in B-mount are 20/2.8, 35/2.4, 50/1.4, and 135/3.5. The 28/2.8,
> 50/1.8 and 135/2.8 "Carl Zeiss Jena P" lenses are rebadged Pentacon
lenses.
>
> For more information check out www.praktica-users.com On this site you
can
> also see Jon Gibbs's flower close-ups taken with a 135/3.5 Zeiss Jena lens
> and bellows which may interest you.
>
> http://www.praktica-users.com/picindex.html
>
>

I believe that Carl Zeiss Jena was one of the "prizes" of German
reunification - as a world-class optical instrument maker (but NOT as a
camera lens maker!).

The big problem is not the optical quality of Practica "B" lenses (not
top-notch but a decent example will take good negs capable of high
enlargement), but the fact that the iris tends to fall apart - rendering the
lens useless. Happened to 3 of mine : 50mm f1.8 (after 4 year's use), the
replacement 50mm f1.8 (after only a few month's use) and a 135mm f2.8. At
that point I gave up and bought a proper camera - after some 20 yrs of
various Praktikas.

Mike

Thanks very much for all the info, I think I'm a little less confused, but
to quote Douglas Adams
"then I think rain is wet, so who am I to judge". I really appreciate the
responses, I was "warned off" Praktica etc (I'm not going there !) by a
couple of independent camera shops. The manager of a local shop who seems
a decent sort of bloke, said that the cameras and optics are pretty good,
but they are let down on the reliability front, which is why he doesn't
stock the kit.

I've yet to put a film thro the BX20, waiting for the film I've ordered
from 7dayshop but playing with the camera it seems very capable, shame it
doesn't have a PC socket. It may be that I've "jumped the gun" a
little on getting this kit, I need kit that will be serviceable when I'm out
in the wilds, so maybe best to reflog the kit and get something a little
more sturdy. It may be back to an old faithful K1000 as I had some 30
years back !

My only previous experience with Praktica etc kit has been with a F2.4 35mm
lens I had on a Chinon CM3 body a while back, that lens seemed optically
superb, but a little less robustly built than the Japanese
own brand lenses.

Once again thanks to all who have replied, wishing you all good luck with
your photography

Tony

"Mike Hunter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Bs-dncKl29pZK1DdRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Stewart Gardiner" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > "Tony" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:cajnla$pli$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I've just bought on eBay a kit based on the Praktica BX20, this came
> with
> > > Prakticar lenses
> > > 135/2.8, 28/2.8 50/2.4 and two Sigma zooms. I have been dredging
> > > through eBay and photo
> > > dealers sites and am aware that there appear to be the same lenses
> > "badged"
> > > Praktica and Carl Zeiss Jena.
> > > Some of the Carl Zeiss lenses command high prices, especially the
> "Sonnar"
> > > "Flektacon" - whatever that means?.
> >
> > There is quite a bit of history to this which I'll attempt to summarise.
> >
> > After the second world war the Carl Zeiss factory in Jena was
nationalised
> > by the Communist East German government. A number of the Carl Zeiss
> > personnel fled to West Germany to establish a rival company, also called
> > Carl Zeiss. In the U.S. the West German operation won the right to the
> Carl
> > Zeiss name so that all Carl Zeiss Jena lenses exported to America were
> > labelled "Aus Jena".
> >
> > Praktica SLRs were manufactured by Pentacon in Dresden. In the 50s and
60s
> > Pentacon cameras came with a choice of lens options, the basic package
was
> a
> > body plus a 50/2.8 lens from Meyer Optik called the Domiplan. By paying
a
> > bit more you could upgrade to a superior Carl Zeiss Jena lens like the
> > 50/1.8 Pancolor. At this time most German lens designs from both East
and
> > West were given names by the manufacturers. The Pancolar for instance
was
> > the CZJ version of the Planar, a five element fast lens. Both Zeiss
> > operations also produced slower pre-war Tessar designs consisting of
four
> > elements in three groups. The Sonnar was another term used by both East
> and
> > West German companies to denote a telephoto design also using four
> elements
> > in three groups. Flektogon was used by Jena to describe their wide
> > angle optics, the West German equivalent was Distagon.
> >
> > With the launch of the B-series cameras in 1979 (of which your BX20 is a
> > descendent), these old naming conventions were done away with and all of
> the
> > East German lenses (and some new Japanese made lenses) for the new
bayonet
> > mount were simply described as Prakticar. For example, what had
previously
> > been the Carl Zeiss Flektogon 35 f2.4 lens in M42 mount became the CZJ
> > Prakticar 35/2.4 in B mount.
> >
> > In the late eighties the whole East German camera and optical industry
was
> > consolidated in one company. Carl Zeiss Jena became a brand that was
> applied
> > to lenses which had been designed by Pentacon and Meyer, not just those
> from
> > the original Zeiss factory. For instance, the Carl Zeiss Jena Prakticar
> > 28/2.8 is just a rebadged Pentacon 28/2.8.
> >
> > Just when you thought it couldn't get any more confusing, the name was
> also
> > licensed to Sigma to produce a the Jenazoom range of zoom lenses
available
> > in most of the manual focus mounts of the late eighties.
> >
> > After the re-unification of Germany the West German Zeiss operation
bought
> > out the Eastern company and lens production for consumer cameras ceased
at
> > Jena.
> >
> > Focal lengths and max apertures of the more common "genuine" Carl Zeiss
> Jena
> > lenses in B-mount are 20/2.8, 35/2.4, 50/1.4, and 135/3.5. The 28/2.8,
> > 50/1.8 and 135/2.8 "Carl Zeiss Jena P" lenses are rebadged Pentacon
> lenses.
> >
> > For more information check out www.praktica-users.com On this site you
> can
> > also see Jon Gibbs's flower close-ups taken with a 135/3.5 Zeiss Jena
lens
> > and bellows which may interest you.
> >
> > http://www.praktica-users.com/picindex.html
> >
> >
>
> I believe that Carl Zeiss Jena was one of the "prizes" of German
> reunification - as a world-class optical instrument maker (but NOT as a
> camera lens maker!).
>
> The big problem is not the optical quality of Practica "B" lenses (not
> top-notch but a decent example will take good negs capable of high
> enlargement), but the fact that the iris tends to fall apart - rendering
the
> lens useless. Happened to 3 of mine : 50mm f1.8 (after 4 year's use), the
> replacement 50mm f1.8 (after only a few month's use) and a 135mm f2.8. At
> that point I gave up and bought a proper camera - after some 20 yrs of
> various Praktikas.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Tony <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Thanks very much for all the info, I think I'm a little less confused, but
> to quote Douglas Adams
> "then I think rain is wet, so who am I to judge". I really appreciate the
> responses, I was "warned off" Praktica etc (I'm not going there !) by a
> couple of independent camera shops. The manager of a local shop who seems
> a decent sort of bloke, said that the cameras and optics are pretty good,
> but they are let down on the reliability front, which is why he doesn't
> stock the kit.

That's somewhat puzzling. Certainly newer stuff might be iffy, I do have
some cheap Praktica binoculars that are indeed crap. However, my wife
has a Praktica MTL5 camera and lens that she got some 20 odd years ago.
I costs us 30 quid for a service a little while ago, but can still take
very good pictures indeed.

In the early eighties Pracktica made very sound products at a very
reasnable price.

--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Concerto 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com - now online

Willy Eckerslyke <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> mark Dunn wrote:
>
> > 'Carl Zeiss' and 'Carl Zeiss Jena' are quite different makes. Both are
> > German but Jena is in the former East Germany. Before the wall came down the
> > Jena lenses were much cheaper but considered optically inferior. I'm not
> > sure anyone not using a test bench would notice any difference outside their
> > bank account.
>
> Oh yes they would! A colleague of mine once bought a CZ Jena zoom that
> was like looking through the bottom of a milk bottle. OK, it was trying
> to do a ridiculous task, 28-210 or something ludicrous, but even so
> I can't see any half decent manufacturer selling anything so dire.

I have a Carl Zeiss Jena 70-210 lens for my OM40 which has given good
service for the last 20 years.

--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Concerto 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com - now online

Willy Eckerslyke <(E-Mail Removed)> observed
>mark Dunn wrote:
>
>> 'Carl Zeiss' and 'Carl Zeiss Jena' are quite different makes. Both are
>> German but Jena is in the former East Germany. Before the wall came down the
>> Jena lenses were much cheaper but considered optically inferior. I'm not
>> sure anyone not using a test bench would notice any difference outside their
>> bank account.
>
>Oh yes they would! A colleague of mine once bought a CZ Jena zoom that
>was like looking through the bottom of a milk bottle. OK, it was trying
>to do a ridiculous task, 28-210 or something ludicrous, but even so
>I can't see any half decent manufacturer selling anything so dire.
>
>Perhaps their less ambitious stuff was better, but I'm not that eager
>to find out.

I had a Practika[1] projector that was quite respectable, IIRC that was
one of their brand names.

Mike

[1] no 'r' at the end.
[The reply-to address is valid for 30 days from this posting]
--
Michael J Davis
<><
Some newsgroup contributors appear to have confused
the meaning of "discussion" with "digression".
<><

Michael J Davis wrote:

> I had a Practika[1] projector that was quite respectable, IIRC that was
> one of their brand names.

Having slated them for one of their lenses, I've just remembered that my
first "real" camera was a Practika Nova handed down by my grandfather. I
did replace its standard lens with a lovely 15 pound Super Takumar
though. I loved it, but when I looked it again years later, the
viewfinder seemed so dark and vignetted that I was amazed I'd ever
managed to see anything through it.