Re: Here comes Summer- tap water temp going up, up, up!

Some Dude <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>. ..
> Ok now my lowest water temp on my tap is now 73 degrees. It was 71 a
> week ago. Instead of trying to fight it, installing a temperature
> control system ($$$$$$$!), I'd rather adjust my development times.
>
> Normally I develop at 68F but lately haven't had that luxury.
> Yesterday I developed KB-25 @ 71F, Rod 1:100 at 17.5 mins with very
> nice, contrasty negs (just the thing I'm after with this film).
>
> However, two hours later (at night), the lowest I could get my temp at
> was 73 degrees after letting the water run for quite a while.
>
> Question is- Is there a rule of thumb on adjusting development for
> temperature? Say, one degree per 30 seconds- or minute..or? Is the
> time ratio relative to the temperature ratio (makes sense don't it..)
>
> I checked KB-25 negs I shot a year ago at 68F for 18m and they are
> pretty much the same (maybe a bit lighter by some very small density
> factor).
>
> Basically I'd like to develop longer but my rising water temp.
> prevents me from doing that- So if anyone had any thoughts- just
> general ideas on times based on temp, please share!
>
> Thanks,
> -sd
> www.zoom.sh



Hey Dude

This comes up every summer. Not a good idea to dink with different
developers, dilutions and times of development. Too many variables,
too difficult to control end results. Better to keep it simple and
control only the one variable, the temperature.

Two methods using water baths:
Best but pricey: Temp control valve with a chiller. When you go that
route have at least 2 spigots in the system, one to the water bath or
baths, the other to the washer. Also a normal spigot of hot and cold
not in the system for other uses.

A little more inconvenient but cheap, quite workable and a zillion
years old : Water baths controlled with a few ice cubes or some such
kept handy, or hot water in the winter if room unheated in the winter
.. If you check their temps frequently very easy to control. Very
economical

For film: A plastic window box type planter from the Home Depot deep
enough and long enough to accommodate 2 quart solution bottles with
room to dip developing tank between inversions. Mine is about 6"wide,
7" deep and 29" long. Cost about $10-$15

For print: A 16 x 20 or similar tray to float your 8 X 10 developer
tray in . If the other solutions go up in temp not to worry. Not worth
bothering with a bath. Makes no difference. Also works with 11x14
developer tray but a larger bath would be easier to control

Regardless of the method, always keeping the developer water bath, in
winter if the room has no heat in it best to invest in an electric
room heater of the type that is very efficient and heats oil in what
looks like an old fashioned room radiator and has only an indicator
light, easily masked. You then won't have to worry about the other
solutions and yourself getting too cold.

The few times my fancy system has gone out I switched to the old way
in a few minutes. Spoiled by the luxury and don't like the
inconvenience, but not really worse than having to change back to a
stick shift from automatic although less fun.

good luck

Nick


Nick

Thanks. I bought a mini fridge/heater and hacked it yesterday- works
great



On 10 Jul 2003 03:55:52 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Nick) wrote:

>Some Dude <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>. ..
>> Ok now my lowest water temp on my tap is now 73 degrees. It was 71 a
>> week ago. Instead of trying to fight it, installing a temperature
>> control system ($$$$$$$!), I'd rather adjust my development times.
>>
>> Normally I develop at 68F but lately haven't had that luxury.
>> Yesterday I developed KB-25 @ 71F, Rod 1:100 at 17.5 mins with very
>> nice, contrasty negs (just the thing I'm after with this film).
>>
>> However, two hours later (at night), the lowest I could get my temp at
>> was 73 degrees after letting the water run for quite a while.
>>
>> Question is- Is there a rule of thumb on adjusting development for
>> temperature? Say, one degree per 30 seconds- or minute..or? Is the
>> time ratio relative to the temperature ratio (makes sense don't it..)
>>
>> I checked KB-25 negs I shot a year ago at 68F for 18m and they are
>> pretty much the same (maybe a bit lighter by some very small density
>> factor).
>>
>> Basically I'd like to develop longer but my rising water temp.
>> prevents me from doing that- So if anyone had any thoughts- just
>> general ideas on times based on temp, please share!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -sd
>> www.zoom.sh
>
>
>
>Hey Dude
>
>This comes up every summer. Not a good idea to dink with different
>developers, dilutions and times of development. Too many variables,
>too difficult to control end results. Better to keep it simple and
>control only the one variable, the temperature.
>
>Two methods using water baths:
> Best but pricey: Temp control valve with a chiller. When you go that
>route have at least 2 spigots in the system, one to the water bath or
>baths, the other to the washer. Also a normal spigot of hot and cold
>not in the system for other uses.
>
> A little more inconvenient but cheap, quite workable and a zillion
>years old : Water baths controlled with a few ice cubes or some such
>kept handy, or hot water in the winter if room unheated in the winter
>. If you check their temps frequently very easy to control. Very
>economical
>
>For film: A plastic window box type planter from the Home Depot deep
>enough and long enough to accommodate 2 quart solution bottles with
>room to dip developing tank between inversions. Mine is about 6"wide,
>7" deep and 29" long. Cost about $10-$15
>
>For print: A 16 x 20 or similar tray to float your 8 X 10 developer
>tray in . If the other solutions go up in temp not to worry. Not worth
>bothering with a bath. Makes no difference. Also works with 11x14
>developer tray but a larger bath would be easier to control
>
>Regardless of the method, always keeping the developer water bath, in
>winter if the room has no heat in it best to invest in an electric
>room heater of the type that is very efficient and heats oil in what
>looks like an old fashioned room radiator and has only an indicator
>light, easily masked. You then won't have to worry about the other
>solutions and yourself getting too cold.
>
>The few times my fancy system has gone out I switched to the old way
>in a few minutes. Spoiled by the luxury and don't like the
>inconvenience, but not really worse than having to change back to a
>stick shift from automatic although less fun.
>
>good luck
>
>Nick

Cheers,
-sd
http://www.zoom.sh

On 10 Jul 2003 03:55:52 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Nick) wrote:

>This comes up every summer. Not a good idea to dink with different
>developers, dilutions and times of development. Too many variables,
>too difficult to control end results

You think it's easier to "dink" with water baths and home-made water
chillers than to simply adjust the time to something that the manufacturer has
already tested for you ? I'm amazed at the amount of effort that people will put
into circumventing the simple and straightforward process of using their brain.

Regards,

John - Photographer & Webmaster - http://www.darkroompro.com
A summation of American society after 9/11:
Never have so many known so much and yet done so little.

Yeah I sorta agree. I've been having a good time developing and
recording my own results for my own needs- Not messing with lots of
methods too much- Although the fridge works great.

I've gotten Efke developoing down to a science as a result (well,
at least *my* science)

Here's another thing that ****ed me off yesterday-

I found out that the ambient room temperature of my darkoom is 4
degrees cooler than my COLD FAUCET!!!!! (e.g. Standing water in a
beaker measures 71F whereas the cold facuet measures 75).


sheesh- whats next- I get geothermal heating in my pipes? (well, maybe
thats whats happening)





On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:05:13 -0500, John <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On 10 Jul 2003 03:55:52 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Nick) wrote:
>
>>This comes up every summer. Not a good idea to dink with different
>>developers, dilutions and times of development. Too many variables,
>>too difficult to control end results
>
> You think it's easier to "dink" with water baths and home-made water
>chillers than to simply adjust the time to something that the manufacturer has
>already tested for you ? I'm amazed at the amount of effort that people will put
>into circumventing the simple and straightforward process of using their brain.
>
>Regards,
>
>John - Photographer & Webmaster - http://www.darkroompro.com
>A summation of American society after 9/11:
> Never have so many known so much and yet done so little.

Cheers,
-sd
http://www.zoom.sh

I have never had a curling problem with 35mm or 120 (any BW film for
that matter). Go to a store such as a office supply store and buy
those circular magnet clips (I think they're used for clipping papers
to a fridge or something. Buy 4 of them for 120, 2 for 35mm.

Once you've hung the film place the clips on the leader (assuming the
leader is closest to the ground) on either side of each other with
35mm. With 120 do the same thing but place two and two on top of each
other. Make sure the clips are evenly balanced on both sides. The
film will straighten nicely immediately if you've done it right.

I'll tell ya a film that has a real curling problem- HIE!!!!

Hope this helps!


On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:16:34 +0200, Andrew Price <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:46:07 GMT, Some Dude <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>[---]
>
>>I've gotten Efke developoing down to a science as a result (well,
>>at least *my* science)
>
>Have you managed to stop it curling? Roman Rohleder's method (hang it
>up to dry in a high-humidty environment, e.g. the bathroom after
>taking a shower) works OK for me for 35mm, but not for 12O format,
>which still twists and twirls as the fit takes it.

Cheers,
-sd
http://www.zoom.sh