Beutler Formula - Solution B conversion

I am having a go at mixing my own developer, just for fun, to start
with on some non critical negs. Looking at the Beutler Formula, Stock
solution B calls for Sodium Carbonate at 50g per litre. I have Sodium
Metaborate. Can I substitute the Metaborate for the Carbonate, and if
so at what factor? Will there be any disadvantage in doing this if it
is possible. Also, does anyone out there have a recommended time for
delta 100 (35 and 120)in the Beutler Formula.

Thanks very much

Stu


Stu

Sodium Carbonate should be available at the super market.
On the left side of the puddle it is called "Washing Soda".
The stuff is quite pure, though I wouldn't be surprised
if there is a brand somewhere with some idiot perfume
added to it.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio (E-Mail Removed)
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.

Beutler's is based in the concept of a very dilluted developing agent
with strong accelerator to increase edge effects.

I feel that using metaborate, although you will be able to develop
decent negatives with it (may need a longer dev time) will not have
the 'Beutler' look.

Jorge


(E-Mail Removed) (Stu) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
> I am having a go at mixing my own developer, just for fun, to start
> with on some non critical negs. Looking at the Beutler Formula, Stock
> solution B calls for Sodium Carbonate at 50g per litre. I have Sodium
> Metaborate. Can I substitute the Metaborate for the Carbonate, and if
> so at what factor? Will there be any disadvantage in doing this if it
> is possible. Also, does anyone out there have a recommended time for
> delta 100 (35 and 120)in the Beutler Formula.
>
> Thanks very much
>
> Stu

(E-Mail Removed) (Stu) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed). com>...
> I am having a go at mixing my own developer, just for fun, to start
> with on some non critical negs. Looking at the Beutler Formula, Stock
> solution B calls for Sodium Carbonate at 50g per litre. I have Sodium
> Metaborate. Can I substitute the Metaborate for the Carbonate, and if
> so at what factor? Will there be any disadvantage in doing this if it
> is possible. Also, does anyone out there have a recommended time for
> delta 100 (35 and 120)in the Beutler Formula.
>
> Thanks very much
>
> Stu

Don't substitute anything. This developer requires Sodium Carbonate.

Get the right chemicals from Photographers Formulary.

Sodium metaborate is a weaker alkalai than sodium carbonate. The solution
pH will be lower using sodium metaborate. They are not interchangeable.

The Beutler formula depends on high dilution of a highly active developer
without restrainer to produce high actuance without excessive local
contrast. The sodium carbonate is part of the high activity. Substitution
of sodium metaborate would call for some formal experiments to determine the
effect, development times, and the amount to use. From general principles,
the contrast would probably be lower, the acutance lower, and the
development times longer. There may be some tendency to fog.
"Stu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> I am having a go at mixing my own developer, just for fun, to start
> with on some non critical negs. Looking at the Beutler Formula, Stock
> solution B calls for Sodium Carbonate at 50g per litre. I have Sodium
> Metaborate. Can I substitute the Metaborate for the Carbonate, and if
> so at what factor? Will there be any disadvantage in doing this if it
> is possible. Also, does anyone out there have a recommended time for
> delta 100 (35 and 120)in the Beutler Formula.
>
> Thanks very much
>
> Stu

RE: (E-Mail Removed) (Stu) wrote

> I am having a go at mixing my own developer, just for fun, to start
> with on some non critical negs. Looking at the Beutler Formula, Stock
> solution B calls for Sodium Carbonate at 50g per litre. I have Sodium
> Metaborate. Can I substitute the Metaborate for the Carbonate, and if
> so at what factor? Will there be any disadvantage in doing this if it
> is possible. Also, does anyone out there have a recommended time for
> delta 100 (35 and 120)in the Beutler Formula.

Good timeing. A couple of days ago I processed a roll (first roll
through my new, used RB67 Pro S) of Pan F in my first Homebrew
Beutler. They look good. They may look good on grade 2 paper;
tonight will tell.
The roll was given 8 minutes in 500ml with, after start,
2 inversions each minute. A one liter tank with reel
keeper was used.
The formula used is: 1gr metol, 5gr sulfite, 6gr carbonate. Two,
one ounce amber glass bottles with polycone seal caps were used
for both the A and B. One of each were used for that first roll.
With the addition of a little sulfite the Beutler can be
converted into FX-1! Or the addition can be skipped for an
extra low sulfite FX-1. That will likely be my next roll's
soup. With 500ml of FX-1 there is only 1/4gr of metol to
do the developing.
The ph of the Beutler was 10.6, higher than expected and way
above the 7.8 of D23. Stick with carbonate and photo grade. Dan

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:53:48 GMT, "Norman Worth" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Sodium metaborate is a weaker alkalai than sodium carbonate. The solution
>pH will be lower using sodium metaborate. They are not interchangeable.

One could simply increase the amount of development time to compensate for
the difference in activity. The images developed in metaborate may have finer
grain and will be sharper as a result.

John

RE: (E-Mail Removed) (Stu) wrote

> Of course, washing soda! Use a lot more. It has ten H2Os where as
the formula calls for the one H2O. Washing soda is the deca hydrate
rather than the mono. Also I'm not sure it is stable. It may dry
some leaving an unknown mix of mono and deca. Mono is usually
stipulated in formulas, I believe, for this reason. Stick
with photo grade mono. Dan

Dan Quinn wrote:

> RE: (E-Mail Removed) (Stu) wrote
>
> > Of course, washing soda! Use a lot more. It has ten H2Os where as
> the formula calls for the one H2O. Washing soda is the deca hydrate
> rather than the mono. Also I'm not sure it is stable. It may dry
> some leaving an unknown mix of mono and deca. Mono is usually
> stipulated in formulas, I believe, for this reason. Stick
> with photo grade mono. Dan

You can always make sure it loses water by heating it. It will take quite
a hugh temperature, so use a pyrex or stainless steel saucepan. It may
sputter, so put a loose fitting cover ober it.
You may also use pHPlus from pool supply places in place of anhydrous
carbonate. divide the amount of monohydrated carbonate by 1.17 to get the
equivalent amount of anhydrous.
If you can prove that it makes a difference whether you use monohydrated
or anhydrous carbonate, please let me know.

Pat Gainer