Absurd Darkroom Challange

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by Nicholas O. Lindan, Jul 10, 2007.

  1. It is claimed one can make an IJ print that can't be
    told from a SG print.

    Challenge:

    Make a silver-gelatine print than can't be told from
    an ink-jet print.

    --
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
    Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
    http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm
    n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Jul 10, 2007
    #1
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  2. Nicholas O. Lindan

    Dana Myers Guest

    Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
    > It is claimed one can make an IJ print that can't be
    > told from a SG print.
    >
    > Challenge:
    >
    > Make a silver-gelatine print than can't be told from
    > an ink-jet print.


    Not that it makes one lick of sense, but...

    A first stab - produce a negative on an ink-jet printer
    and contact-print it. Certainly would want to flip
    the image when printing the negative and then contact-print
    ink-side to silver gelatin paper.

    For bonus points, use a matte-surface paper - are they
    even available any longer?

    Dana
     
    Dana Myers, Jul 10, 2007
    #2
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  3. Hi,

    What's the point? Comparing apples and oranges again??????

    Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
    > It is claimed one can make an IJ print that can't be
    > told from a SG print.
    >
    > Challenge:
    >
    > Make a silver-gelatine print than can't be told from
    > an ink-jet print.


    What are the conditions for comparison? Can I use an 8x loupe to
    examine the prints or do I have to stand back a certain distance; what
    size prints, 8x10, 16x20 ?????? Can I use a 5x7 negative and enlarge
    that?

    Cheers,
    Bogdan


    >


    --
    ________________________________________________________________
    Bogdan Karasek
    Montr‚al, Qu‚bec bogdan at bogdanphoto.com
    Canada www.bogdanphoto.com

    "I photograph my reality"
    ________________________________________________________________
     
    Bogdan Karasek, Jul 11, 2007
    #3
  4. "Bogdan Karasek" <> wrote

    > What's the point?

    There has to be a point?

    I thought this got settled long ago:

    "A tale told by an idiot,
    Full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing."
    - W. Shakespeare

    Nicholas Lindan wrote:
    > > Challenge:
    > > Make a silver-gelatine print than can't be told from
    > > an ink-jet print.

    >
    > What are the conditions for comparison? Can I use an 8x loupe to examine
    > the prints or do I have to stand back a certain distance;


    The SG print has to look just like it was made on an IJ printer.
    _Not_ look like an IJ print trying to look like an SG print.
    A silver gelatine print that makes you say "That was made on an
    ink-jet, stake money on it." A SG print that, for instance,
    breaks into little colored dots if you look close.

    Why would any one want to? Damn if I know. I'm still trying to
    figure out why people want to make B&W IJ prints that look like
    SG - it's just as pointless and ultimately impossible. High-tech
    pictoralism: Making an IJ print that tries to look like a SG print
    that tries to look like a painting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictorialism
    -- very post-post-modern though.

    Making a silk purse from a sow's ear can be done:
    http://libraries.mit.edu/archives/exhibits/purse/index.html

    Making a sow's ear from a silk purse is a far greater trick.

    In the end, though, who would want either the purse or
    the ear?

    --
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
    Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
    http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm
    n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Jul 11, 2007
    #4
  5. Nicholas O. Lindan

    Dana Myers Guest

    Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:

    > Why would any one want to? Damn if I know. I'm still trying to
    > figure out why people want to make B&W IJ prints that look like
    > SG - it's just as pointless and ultimately impossible.


    Well, if you stop obsessing on the leaves at the base of the
    trees and take a step back so you can see the forest, it's
    easy to understand.

    Over the decades, people have developed an appreciation for
    B&W photography. Some of those people most appreciate the
    process by which B&W prints are produced, and some of those
    people most appreciate the B&W prints themselves, regardless
    of the process used to produce them.

    If all you consider is the process, then, sure, IJ != SG
    and never will, they're two different processes.

    If all you consider are the prints, it's completely reasonable
    to expect that good prints can be produced using different
    processes.

    How much an inkjet print can look like a SG print is really
    a matter of how close one looks; we're already at a point
    where one has to peer closely to tell the difference today.
    At some point, perhaps one will need a microscope.

    So, people want to make IJ prints that look like the good
    prints they've viewed over the decades, prints necessarily
    made on SG paper. That's the point and should be quite
    easy to grasp. As technology and tastes evolve, the desire
    to reproduce the look of SG paper may fade, but it's a natural
    place for enthusiasts of B&W prints to start.

    Cheers,
    Dana K6JQ
     
    Dana Myers, Jul 11, 2007
    #5
  6. Nicholas O. Lindan

    Lloyd Erlick Guest

    On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 03:49:57 GMT, "Nicholas
    O. Lindan" <> wrote:

    >Why would any one want to? Damn if I know. I'm still trying to
    >figure out why people want to make B&W IJ prints that look like
    >SG - it's just as pointless and ultimately impossible. High-tech
    >pictoralism: Making an IJ print that tries to look like a SG print
    >that tries to look like a painting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictorialism
    >-- very post-post-modern though.




    July 11, 2007, from Lloyd Erlick,

    Maybe make it by hand, with three tiny
    brushes and three primary colors (or whatever
    they're called).

    I used to know someone who could do this.

    It's just a sophisticated scanner and printer
    combination. The hardware is expensive and
    the software takes a lifetime to install.

    regards,
    --le
    ________________________________
    Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
    website: www.heylloyd.com
    telephone: 416-686-0326
    email:
    ________________________________
    --
     
    Lloyd Erlick, Jul 11, 2007
    #6
  7. Nicholas O. Lindan

    gr Guest

    Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
    > It is claimed one can make an IJ print that can't be
    > told from a SG print.
    >
    > Challenge:
    >
    > Make a silver-gelatine print than can't be told from
    > an ink-jet print.
    >

    You could probably do it, dots and all by using a Light Jet Laser
    printer with color photo paper.
    gr
     
    gr, Jul 12, 2007
    #7
  8. gr spake thus:

    > Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
    >
    >> It is claimed one can make an IJ print that can't be
    >> told from a SG print.
    >>
    >> Challenge:
    >>
    >> Make a silver-gelatine print than can't be told from
    >> an ink-jet print.
    >>

    > You could probably do it, dots and all by using a Light Jet Laser
    > printer with color photo paper.


    We may have a winner here.


    --
    Any system of knowledge that is capable of listing films in order
    of use of the word "****" is incapable of writing a good summary
    and analysis of the Philippine-American War. And vice-versa.
    This is an inviolable rule.

    - Matthew White, referring to Wikipedia on his WikiWatch site
    (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo.htm)
     
    David Nebenzahl, Jul 12, 2007
    #8
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