Capture HD video directly from HDMI uncompressed

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Smarty, Feb 21, 2007.

  1. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    Blackmagic has introduced a very novel capture card called Intensity for
    $249 which has an HDMI input and an HDMI output connector. It makes the
    impressive claim of eliminating HDV compression penalties by directly
    capturing uncompressed 1920 X 1080 HD video directly from HDV camcorders (at
    least those which have an HDMI output port) as well as from other HD and SD
    video sources. It offers a number of other impressive features as well, in
    particular real-time down-conversion from HD into SD and the ability to sync
    and switch 2 HDV camcorders with 2 cards in a studio setting. It provides
    HDMI output to drive monitors, projectors, etc. Macs and PCs are supported,
    but do require one newer PCI Express slot. It would appear to allow
    off-the-air HD capture external to set-top boxes equipped with HDMI (and
    DVI) outputs.

    Since copyright materials could be captured and digitized, the advertising
    plainly excludes protected content, and says the board will not be useful
    for those purposes.

    More info at: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
     
    Smarty, Feb 21, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On a sunny day (Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:02:45 -0500) it happened "Smarty"
    <> wrote in <>:

    >Blackmagic has introduced a very novel capture card called Intensity for
    >$249 which has an HDMI input and an HDMI output connector. It makes the
    >impressive claim of eliminating HDV compression penalties by directly
    >capturing uncompressed 1920 X 1080 HD video directly from HDV camcorders (at
    >least those which have an HDMI output port) as well as from other HD and SD
    >video sources. It offers a number of other impressive features as well, in
    >particular real-time down-conversion from HD into SD and the ability to sync
    >and switch 2 HDV camcorders with 2 cards in a studio setting. It provides
    >HDMI output to drive monitors, projectors, etc. Macs and PCs are supported,
    >but do require one newer PCI Express slot. It would appear to allow
    >off-the-air HD capture external to set-top boxes equipped with HDMI (and
    >DVI) outputs.
    >
    >Since copyright materials could be captured and digitized, the advertising
    >plainly excludes protected content, and says the board will not be useful
    >for those purposes.
    >
    >More info at: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/


    Hi, thank you for the interesting posting.
    For 1920x1080 @ 25fps I was thinking about the transfer rate for the disk
    system that is required.
    Let's see:
    1920 x 1080 x 25 x 24 (bit per pixel) / 8 = 155 520 000 bytes / second,
    is about 155 MB /s (1 244 160 000 bps, or 1.24 Gbits / s)

    It seems the disk system will have to be able to do about 200 MB/s sustained.

    Not every harddisk will sustain this, I just looked around at the seagate
    site for a usable disk...
    It is not an interface issue (SATA or SCSI), SATA goes to 3Gb/s, but more
    a drive issue.
    Any comments?
     
    Jan Panteltje, Feb 22, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    Jan,

    What a refreshing and intelligent reply! I've done a bit of research on this
    specific topic, and it appears that "Port Multiplication" with SATA drives
    in a RAID is an available and more than adequate solution. The web link
    cited below shows simple to achieve 230 MB/sec performance and offers a
    solution up to around 265 MB/sec as well.


    http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/PortMultiplicationGuide.php

    This will certainly fill disk drives quickly!!

    Given that cable boxes and satellite boxes are not generally providing HDCP
    over HDMI, this would appear to be an alternative method to directly capture
    cable and satellite HDTV at full resolution.

    Smarty



    "Jan Panteltje" <> wrote in message
    news:erk4r3$kgk$...
    > On a sunny day (Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:02:45 -0500) it happened "Smarty"
    > <> wrote in
    > <>:
    >
    >>Blackmagic has introduced a very novel capture card called Intensity for
    >>$249 which has an HDMI input and an HDMI output connector. It makes the
    >>impressive claim of eliminating HDV compression penalties by directly
    >>capturing uncompressed 1920 X 1080 HD video directly from HDV camcorders
    >>(at
    >>least those which have an HDMI output port) as well as from other HD and
    >>SD
    >>video sources. It offers a number of other impressive features as well, in
    >>particular real-time down-conversion from HD into SD and the ability to
    >>sync
    >>and switch 2 HDV camcorders with 2 cards in a studio setting. It provides
    >>HDMI output to drive monitors, projectors, etc. Macs and PCs are
    >>supported,
    >>but do require one newer PCI Express slot. It would appear to allow
    >>off-the-air HD capture external to set-top boxes equipped with HDMI (and
    >>DVI) outputs.
    >>
    >>Since copyright materials could be captured and digitized, the advertising
    >>plainly excludes protected content, and says the board will not be useful
    >>for those purposes.
    >>
    >>More info at: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

    >
    > Hi, thank you for the interesting posting.
    > For 1920x1080 @ 25fps I was thinking about the transfer rate for the disk
    > system that is required.
    > Let's see:
    > 1920 x 1080 x 25 x 24 (bit per pixel) / 8 = 155 520 000 bytes / second,
    > is about 155 MB /s (1 244 160 000 bps, or 1.24 Gbits / s)
    >
    > It seems the disk system will have to be able to do about 200 MB/s
    > sustained.
    >
    > Not every harddisk will sustain this, I just looked around at the seagate
    > site for a usable disk...
    > It is not an interface issue (SATA or SCSI), SATA goes to 3Gb/s, but more
    > a drive issue.
    > Any comments?
    >
     
    Smarty, Feb 22, 2007
    #3
  4. On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:35:11 -0500) it happened "Smarty"
    <> wrote in <>:

    >Jan,
    >
    >What a refreshing and intelligent reply! I've done a bit of research on this
    >specific topic, and it appears that "Port Multiplication" with SATA drives
    >in a RAID is an available and more than adequate solution. The web link
    >cited below shows simple to achieve 230 MB/sec performance and offers a
    >solution up to around 265 MB/sec as well.
    >
    >
    >http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/PortMultiplicationGuide.php
    >
    >This will certainly fill disk drives quickly!!
    >
    >Given that cable boxes and satellite boxes are not generally providing HDCP
    >over HDMI, this would appear to be an alternative method to directly capture
    >cable and satellite HDTV at full resolution.
    >
    >Smarty


    Good info, thank you, good to know somebody already did all this..
    Yes, it will take a lot of space:
    at 200 MB / s for 90 minutes 90 x 60 x 200 = 1 080 000 MB say 1.1 Tera Byte.
    That is if you wanted to record a movie.
    It would not be so good if you recorded from a settop box, or even from a DVD player,
    as the source would be mpeg2 or similar, and that is better recorded as .ps or
    transport stream, taking much less space.
    But for directly from a HD camera it is the right stuff.
    Then you need more space for editing, at least double the space, 10TB would be nice.
    Now let's extrapolate a bit:
    In the 1980 ties we were at 10MB for a harddisk.
    Now, say 20 years later, we are at 500 MB.
    A factor 50 in 20 years.
    So perhaps 10 years from now we have the 12 TB harddisks....
    In 5 years from now the 6 TB, and that would be enough already.
    Just to know where it will go :)
     
    Jan Panteltje, Feb 22, 2007
    #4
  5. Smarty

    Gene Guest

    You can get ~ 90+ minutes (~20GB) on a MiniDV camcorder tape:)
    Wonder if that would be enough to make the movie
    look OK? It's probably a little better than a double
    sided DVD.

    $400 for a 1TB sounds like a fair price:
    http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/05/hitachi_unveils_first_1tb_hdd/


    Gene





    "Jan Panteltje" <> wrote in message
    news:erktje$h07$...
    > On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:35:11 -0500) it happened "Smarty"
    > <> wrote in
    > <>:
    >
    >>Jan,
    >>
    >>What a refreshing and intelligent reply! I've done a bit of research on
    >>this
    >>specific topic, and it appears that "Port Multiplication" with SATA drives
    >>in a RAID is an available and more than adequate solution. The web link
    >>cited below shows simple to achieve 230 MB/sec performance and offers a
    >>solution up to around 265 MB/sec as well.
    >>
    >>
    >>http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/PortMultiplicationGuide.php
    >>
    >>This will certainly fill disk drives quickly!!
    >>
    >>Given that cable boxes and satellite boxes are not generally providing
    >>HDCP
    >>over HDMI, this would appear to be an alternative method to directly
    >>capture
    >>cable and satellite HDTV at full resolution.
    >>
    >>Smarty

    >
    > Good info, thank you, good to know somebody already did all this..
    > Yes, it will take a lot of space:
    > at 200 MB / s for 90 minutes 90 x 60 x 200 = 1 080 000 MB say 1.1 Tera
    > Byte.
    > That is if you wanted to record a movie.
    > It would not be so good if you recorded from a settop box, or even from a
    > DVD player,
    > as the source would be mpeg2 or similar, and that is better recorded as
    > .ps or
    > transport stream, taking much less space.
    > But for directly from a HD camera it is the right stuff.
    > Then you need more space for editing, at least double the space, 10TB
    > would be nice.
    > Now let's extrapolate a bit:
    > In the 1980 ties we were at 10MB for a harddisk.
    > Now, say 20 years later, we are at 500 MB.
    > A factor 50 in 20 years.
    > So perhaps 10 years from now we have the 12 TB harddisks....
    > In 5 years from now the 6 TB, and that would be enough already.
    > Just to know where it will go :)
    >
    >
     
    Gene, Feb 22, 2007
    #5
  6. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    Jan,

    This HDMI adapter does offer a "back-door" type of access to the cable and
    satellite content which could otherwise be difficult or impossible to gain
    access to / extract in mpeg2/mpeg4/H.264 .ps or .ts streams given the way
    the content cartel works and cable/satellite hardware is designed.
    Recompression from the HDMI capture down to a BluRay or HD DVD compliant
    format would be inefficient and risk artifacts and image quality loss, but
    may be the only way to capture and then economically archive this type of
    programming. Alternately, perhaps the cable and satellite providers will
    offer burners in their HD PVRs. Time will tell.

    Since a 1 TB drive has already been announced, holding ~90 minutes of this
    raw content, I would think the time is almost immediate when a very usable
    somewhat modestly priced NLE could be built. Blackmagic identifies Adobe
    Premiere Pro, Final Cut, and other software as already being up to the task.
    Looks like a new and interesting next frontier.

    Smarty


    "Jan Panteltje" <> wrote in message
    news:erktje$h07$...
    > On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:35:11 -0500) it happened "Smarty"
    > <> wrote in
    > <>:
    >
    >>Jan,
    >>
    >>What a refreshing and intelligent reply! I've done a bit of research on
    >>this
    >>specific topic, and it appears that "Port Multiplication" with SATA drives
    >>in a RAID is an available and more than adequate solution. The web link
    >>cited below shows simple to achieve 230 MB/sec performance and offers a
    >>solution up to around 265 MB/sec as well.
    >>
    >>
    >>http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/PortMultiplicationGuide.php
    >>
    >>This will certainly fill disk drives quickly!!
    >>
    >>Given that cable boxes and satellite boxes are not generally providing
    >>HDCP
    >>over HDMI, this would appear to be an alternative method to directly
    >>capture
    >>cable and satellite HDTV at full resolution.
    >>
    >>Smarty

    >
    > Good info, thank you, good to know somebody already did all this..
    > Yes, it will take a lot of space:
    > at 200 MB / s for 90 minutes 90 x 60 x 200 = 1 080 000 MB say 1.1 Tera
    > Byte.
    > That is if you wanted to record a movie.
    > It would not be so good if you recorded from a settop box, or even from a
    > DVD player,
    > as the source would be mpeg2 or similar, and that is better recorded as
    > .ps or
    > transport stream, taking much less space.
    > But for directly from a HD camera it is the right stuff.
    > Then you need more space for editing, at least double the space, 10TB
    > would be nice.
    > Now let's extrapolate a bit:
    > In the 1980 ties we were at 10MB for a harddisk.
    > Now, say 20 years later, we are at 500 MB.
    > A factor 50 in 20 years.
    > So perhaps 10 years from now we have the 12 TB harddisks....
    > In 5 years from now the 6 TB, and that would be enough already.
    > Just to know where it will go :)
    >
    >
     
    Smarty, Feb 22, 2007
    #6
  7. Smarty

    Frank Guest

    On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:12:00 GMT, in 'rec.video.production',
    in article <Re: Capture HD video directly from HDMI uncompressed>,
    Jan Panteltje <> wrote:

    >On a sunny day (Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:02:45 -0500) it happened "Smarty"
    ><> wrote in <>:
    >
    >>Blackmagic has introduced a very novel capture card called Intensity for
    >>$249 which has an HDMI input and an HDMI output connector. It makes the
    >>impressive claim of eliminating HDV compression penalties by directly
    >>capturing uncompressed 1920 X 1080 HD video directly from HDV camcorders (at
    >>least those which have an HDMI output port) as well as from other HD and SD
    >>video sources. It offers a number of other impressive features as well, in
    >>particular real-time down-conversion from HD into SD and the ability to sync
    >>and switch 2 HDV camcorders with 2 cards in a studio setting. It provides
    >>HDMI output to drive monitors, projectors, etc. Macs and PCs are supported,
    >>but do require one newer PCI Express slot. It would appear to allow
    >>off-the-air HD capture external to set-top boxes equipped with HDMI (and
    >>DVI) outputs.
    >>
    >>Since copyright materials could be captured and digitized, the advertising
    >>plainly excludes protected content, and says the board will not be useful
    >>for those purposes.
    >>
    >>More info at: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

    >
    >Hi, thank you for the interesting posting.
    >For 1920x1080 @ 25fps I was thinking about the transfer rate for the disk
    >system that is required.
    >Let's see:
    >1920 x 1080 x 25 x 24 (bit per pixel) / 8 = 155 520 000 bytes / second,
    >is about 155 MB /s (1 244 160 000 bps, or 1.24 Gbits / s)


    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (or if after 24 hours straight
    I really do need some sleep), but I believe that it's 4:2:2 not 4:4:4,
    so it's not 24 bits per pixel.

    >It seems the disk system will have to be able to do about 200 MB/s sustained.
    >
    >Not every harddisk will sustain this, I just looked around at the seagate
    >site for a usable disk...
    >It is not an interface issue (SATA or SCSI), SATA goes to 3Gb/s, but more
    >a drive issue.
    >Any comments?


    As above.

    --
    Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
    [Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
    Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
     
    Frank, Feb 22, 2007
    #7
  8. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    Gene,

    HDV does a pretty good job of it on a minDV tape, and 80 minute tapes for
    HDV are on the market now. Not sure if you can pump HDMI video into an HDV
    camcorder and have it record in HDV. If so, then capturing HD via the HDMI
    port using the Blackmagic and then copying it to a miniDV with a camcorder
    would be a sweet little archiving solution at relatively low cost. Nice to
    see the Blackmagic has both HDMI IN and HDMI OUT ports. :)

    Smarty


    "Gene" <> wrote in message
    news:cnnDh.9$...
    > You can get ~ 90+ minutes (~20GB) on a MiniDV camcorder tape:)
    > Wonder if that would be enough to make the movie
    > look OK? It's probably a little better than a double
    > sided DVD.
    >
    > $400 for a 1TB sounds like a fair price:
    > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/05/hitachi_unveils_first_1tb_hdd/
    >
    >
    > Gene
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Jan Panteltje" <> wrote in message
    > news:erktje$h07$...
    >> On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:35:11 -0500) it happened "Smarty"
    >> <> wrote in
    >> <>:
    >>
    >>>Jan,
    >>>
    >>>What a refreshing and intelligent reply! I've done a bit of research on
    >>>this
    >>>specific topic, and it appears that "Port Multiplication" with SATA
    >>>drives
    >>>in a RAID is an available and more than adequate solution. The web link
    >>>cited below shows simple to achieve 230 MB/sec performance and offers a
    >>>solution up to around 265 MB/sec as well.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/PortMultiplicationGuide.php
    >>>
    >>>This will certainly fill disk drives quickly!!
    >>>
    >>>Given that cable boxes and satellite boxes are not generally providing
    >>>HDCP
    >>>over HDMI, this would appear to be an alternative method to directly
    >>>capture
    >>>cable and satellite HDTV at full resolution.
    >>>
    >>>Smarty

    >>
    >> Good info, thank you, good to know somebody already did all this..
    >> Yes, it will take a lot of space:
    >> at 200 MB / s for 90 minutes 90 x 60 x 200 = 1 080 000 MB say 1.1 Tera
    >> Byte.
    >> That is if you wanted to record a movie.
    >> It would not be so good if you recorded from a settop box, or even from a
    >> DVD player,
    >> as the source would be mpeg2 or similar, and that is better recorded as
    >> .ps or
    >> transport stream, taking much less space.
    >> But for directly from a HD camera it is the right stuff.
    >> Then you need more space for editing, at least double the space, 10TB
    >> would be nice.
    >> Now let's extrapolate a bit:
    >> In the 1980 ties we were at 10MB for a harddisk.
    >> Now, say 20 years later, we are at 500 MB.
    >> A factor 50 in 20 years.
    >> So perhaps 10 years from now we have the 12 TB harddisks....
    >> In 5 years from now the 6 TB, and that would be enough already.
    >> Just to know where it will go :)
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Smarty, Feb 22, 2007
    #8
  9. Smarty

    Frank Guest

    On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:04:12 -0500, in 'rec.video.production',
    in article <Re: Capture HD video directly from HDMI uncompressed>,
    "Smarty" <> wrote:

    >Gene,
    >
    >HDV does a pretty good job of it on a minDV tape, and 80 minute tapes for
    >HDV are on the market now.


    Some of use wouldn't dream of using 80-minute tapes for anything. :)

    >Not sure if you can pump HDMI video into an HDV
    >camcorder and have it record in HDV.


    No, you can't. As with the analog component video jacks on HDV and
    AVCHD camcorders, the HDMI jacks on these products are also output
    only. They do *not* accept an input signal, sorry.

    >If so, then capturing HD via the HDMI
    >port using the Blackmagic and then copying it to a miniDV with a camcorder
    >would be a sweet little archiving solution at relatively low cost. Nice to
    >see the Blackmagic has both HDMI IN and HDMI OUT ports. :)


    --
    Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
    [Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
    Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
     
    Frank, Feb 22, 2007
    #9
  10. On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:14:30 GMT) it happened Jan Panteltje
    <> wrote in <erktje$h07$>:

    >Now let's extrapolate a bit:
    >In the 1980 ties we were at 10MB for a harddisk.
    >Now, say 20 years later, we are at 500 MB.


    Oops, bit of an error, should be 500 GB :)
    So, 50000 x increase in 20 years....
    Extrapolating this means the 10 TB drive must already be on sale this week,
    OK lemme google for it:
    http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/17/seagate-claims-world-record-for-magnetic-recording-density/
    http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=70012

    hehe
     
    Jan Panteltje, Feb 22, 2007
    #10
  11. On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:01:14 -0500) it happened Frank
    <> wrote in
    <>:
    >
    >>Hi, thank you for the interesting posting.
    >>For 1920x1080 @ 25fps I was thinking about the transfer rate for the disk
    >>system that is required.
    >>Let's see:
    >>1920 x 1080 x 25 x 24 (bit per pixel) / 8 = 155 520 000 bytes / second,
    >>is about 155 MB /s (1 244 160 000 bps, or 1.24 Gbits / s)

    >
    >Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (or if after 24 hours straight
    >I really do need some sleep), but I believe that it's 4:2:2 not 4:4:4,
    >so it's not 24 bits per pixel.


    That may be, but if it is 10 bits luminance, and 10 for each chrominance,
    then if YUYV it makes little difference.
    It is late here too:)
    Maybe somebody else knows?
     
    Jan Panteltje, Feb 22, 2007
    #11
  12. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    True Frank. You are more perceptive even after being without sleep for 24
    hours than the rest of us are with normal sleep. The Intensity card does use
    subsampled chroma components, 4:2:2. The storage estimate is therefore
    somewhat pessimistic.

    Smarty


    "Frank" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:12:00 GMT, in 'rec.video.production',
    > in article <Re: Capture HD video directly from HDMI uncompressed>,
    > Jan Panteltje <> wrote:
    >
    >>On a sunny day (Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:02:45 -0500) it happened "Smarty"
    >><> wrote in
    >><>:
    >>
    >>>Blackmagic has introduced a very novel capture card called Intensity for
    >>>$249 which has an HDMI input and an HDMI output connector. It makes the
    >>>impressive claim of eliminating HDV compression penalties by directly
    >>>capturing uncompressed 1920 X 1080 HD video directly from HDV camcorders
    >>>(at
    >>>least those which have an HDMI output port) as well as from other HD and
    >>>SD
    >>>video sources. It offers a number of other impressive features as well,
    >>>in
    >>>particular real-time down-conversion from HD into SD and the ability to
    >>>sync
    >>>and switch 2 HDV camcorders with 2 cards in a studio setting. It provides
    >>>HDMI output to drive monitors, projectors, etc. Macs and PCs are
    >>>supported,
    >>>but do require one newer PCI Express slot. It would appear to allow
    >>>off-the-air HD capture external to set-top boxes equipped with HDMI (and
    >>>DVI) outputs.
    >>>
    >>>Since copyright materials could be captured and digitized, the
    >>>advertising
    >>>plainly excludes protected content, and says the board will not be useful
    >>>for those purposes.
    >>>
    >>>More info at: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

    >>
    >>Hi, thank you for the interesting posting.
    >>For 1920x1080 @ 25fps I was thinking about the transfer rate for the disk
    >>system that is required.
    >>Let's see:
    >>1920 x 1080 x 25 x 24 (bit per pixel) / 8 = 155 520 000 bytes / second,
    >>is about 155 MB /s (1 244 160 000 bps, or 1.24 Gbits / s)

    >
    > Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (or if after 24 hours straight
    > I really do need some sleep), but I believe that it's 4:2:2 not 4:4:4,
    > so it's not 24 bits per pixel.
    >
    >>It seems the disk system will have to be able to do about 200 MB/s
    >>sustained.
    >>
    >>Not every harddisk will sustain this, I just looked around at the seagate
    >>site for a usable disk...
    >>It is not an interface issue (SATA or SCSI), SATA goes to 3Gb/s, but more
    >>a drive issue.
    >>Any comments?

    >
    > As above.
    >
    > --
    > Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
    > [Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
    > Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
     
    Smarty, Feb 22, 2007
    #12
  13. On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:58:43 -0500) it happened "Smarty"
    <> wrote in <>:

    >Jan,
    >
    >This HDMI adapter does offer a "back-door" type of access to the cable and
    >satellite content which could otherwise be difficult or impossible to gain
    >access to / extract in mpeg2/mpeg4/H.264 .ps or .ts streams given the way
    >the content cartel works and cable/satellite hardware is designed.


    Well, I have some experience with that (cartel):
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/dvd/index.html
    Unfortunately it is now very illegal to even (think?) about all that :)
    The good news is Blu-Ray and that other HD DVD format is already in the clear .
    I think most European DTV channels are in the clear too...
    OTOH a news system with even more DRM is in the make for sat TV in Europe.
    Personally I do not watch cracked stuff anymore, we have hundreds of free channels,
    if they do not want me to see their advertisers, then that is their problem :)



    >Recompression from the HDMI capture down to a BluRay or HD DVD compliant
    >format would be inefficient and risk artifacts and image quality loss, but
    >may be the only way to capture and then economically archive this type of
    >programming. Alternately, perhaps the cable and satellite providers will
    >offer burners in their HD PVRs. Time will tell.


    Indeed.


    >Since a 1 TB drive has already been announced, holding ~90 minutes of this
    >raw content, I would think the time is almost immediate when a very usable
    >somewhat modestly priced NLE could be built. Blackmagic identifies Adobe
    >Premiere Pro, Final Cut, and other software as already being up to the task.
    >Looks like a new and interesting next frontier.
    >
    >Smarty


    Agreed.
     
    Jan Panteltje, Feb 22, 2007
    #13
  14. Smarty

    Gene Guest

    LOL - someday my great, great, grandkids will have my entire
    lifetime of A/V on one cheap little disc thing. Not sure if they
    will ever watch 5 to 10K plus hours of video, but they will have it.
    Wish I had a video of my grerat, great, Gramma & her
    siblings at play.

    Gene




    "Jan Panteltje" <> wrote in message
    news:erl1ko$q8p$...
    > On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:14:30 GMT) it happened Jan Panteltje
    > <> wrote in <erktje$h07$>:
    >
    >>Now let's extrapolate a bit:
    >>In the 1980 ties we were at 10MB for a harddisk.
    >>Now, say 20 years later, we are at 500 MB.

    >
    > Oops, bit of an error, should be 500 GB :)
    > So, 50000 x increase in 20 years....
    > Extrapolating this means the 10 TB drive must already be on sale this
    > week,
    > OK lemme google for it:
    > http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/17/seagate-claims-world-record-for-magnetic-recording-density/
    > http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=70012
    >
    > hehe
     
    Gene, Feb 22, 2007
    #14
  15. On 2/22/2007, Jan Panteltje posted this:
    > On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:14:30 GMT) it happened Jan Panteltje
    > <> wrote in <erktje$h07$>:
    >
    >> Now let's extrapolate a bit:
    >> In the 1980 ties we were at 10MB for a harddisk.
    >> Now, say 20 years later, we are at 500 MB.

    >
    > Oops, bit of an error, should be 500 GB :)
    > So, 50000 x increase in 20 years....
    > Extrapolating this means the 10 TB drive must already be on sale this week,
    > OK lemme google for it:
    >
    > http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/17/seagate-claims-world-record-for-magnetic-recording-density/
    > http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=70012
    >
    > hehe


    My favorite part of this (besides the amazement!) was their comment
    about "more space than anyone could possibly need, ever" - plus their
    reason for it...

    And Gene's reply to you reminds me of a discussion I had around 1980
    with a folk-dance teacher, also a techie. I said that someday our
    entire folk-dance music repertoire would fit into a 1" cube. He said
    "No way!". Today my iPod holds more music than his entire folk-dance
    record collection, but he was right - it's not a 1" cube :)

    --
    Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
    letters617blochg3251
    (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Feb 23, 2007
    #15
  16. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    Thanks Frank for the follow-up comments. A bit disappointing but not
    surprising to find out that HDMI is an output only, and not supported for
    input on the HDV camcorders.

    I am now curious.....are the 80 minute miniDV tapes too thin, and /
    or otherwise unreliable?

    Smarty

    "Frank" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:04:12 -0500, in 'rec.video.production',
    > in article <Re: Capture HD video directly from HDMI uncompressed>,
    > Some of use wouldn't dream of using 80-minute tapes for anything. :)
    >
    >>Not sure if you can pump HDMI video into an HDV
    >>camcorder and have it record in HDV.

    >
    > No, you can't. As with the analog component video jacks on HDV and
    > AVCHD camcorders, the HDMI jacks on these products are also output
    > only. They do *not* accept an input signal, sorry.
    >

    \> Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
    > [Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
    > Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
     
    Smarty, Feb 23, 2007
    #16
  17. Smarty

    MassiveProng Guest

    On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:12:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <> Gave us:

    >
    >Not every harddisk will sustain this, I just looked around at the seagate
    >site for a usable disk...
    >It is not an interface issue (SATA or SCSI), SATA goes to 3Gb/s, but more
    >a drive issue.
    >Any comments?
    >


    Great calculations! Practically proves that it is a lie.

    A bit striped RAID array.
     
    MassiveProng, Feb 23, 2007
    #17
  18. Smarty

    MassiveProng Guest

    On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:35:11 -0500, "Smarty" <> Gave
    us:

    >simple to achieve 230 MB/sec performance and offers a
    >solution up to around 265 MB/sec as well.



    In bursts. Not sustained.

    A full on, bit striped RAID array is needed, and you won't be
    getting one cheaply any time soon, you fucking overtly cross posting
    Usenet retard!
     
    MassiveProng, Feb 23, 2007
    #18
  19. Smarty

    MassiveProng Guest

    On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:14:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <> Gave us:

    >Yes, it will take a lot of space:
    >at 200 MB / s for 90 minutes 90 x 60 x 200 = 1 080 000 MB say 1.1 Tera Byte.
    >That is if you wanted to record a movie.



    This is quite funny, considering that HD DVD formats get it into
    30GB.

    You guys are a waste.
     
    MassiveProng, Feb 23, 2007
    #19
  20. Smarty

    MassiveProng Guest

    On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:58:43 -0500, "Smarty" <> Gave
    us:

    >Since a 1 TB drive has already been announced,


    That will NOT do the data rate, DUMBASS.
     
    MassiveProng, Feb 23, 2007
    #20
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