DV recording problem

Discussion in 'Professional Video Production' started by RickMerrill, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. RickMerrill

    RickMerrill Guest

    Recorded DV25 files in 5.1 mode (mistakenly) so the
    frame rate was reduced and the results are horrific.

    I need to replay the DV25 files back to the camera
    OR find some software that will convert them. Any
    suggestions?
     
    RickMerrill, Mar 4, 2009
    #1
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  2. RickMerrill

    ushere Guest

    RickMerrill wrote:
    > Recorded DV25 files in 5.1 mode (mistakenly) so the frame rate was
    > reduced and the results are horrific.
    >
    > I need to replay the DV25 files back to the camera OR find some
    > software that will convert them. Any suggestions?


    please explain? you captured how? 5.1 is audio. 5:1 is default
    compression for dv.....
     
    ushere, Mar 4, 2009
    #2
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  3. RickMerrill

    RickMerrill Guest

    ushere wrote:
    > RickMerrill wrote:
    >> Recorded DV25 files in 5.1 mode (mistakenly) so the frame rate was
    >> reduced and the results are horrific.
    >>
    >> I need to replay the DV25 files back to the camera OR find some
    >> software that will convert them. Any suggestions?

    >
    > please explain? you captured how? 5.1 is audio. 5:1 is default
    > compression for dv.....


    Correct: 5.1 audio when it should have been simple 2channel.

    The result was to lower the frame rate over 1394 so the sound
    is like Mickey Mouse on adrenaline.

    Now I need to convert 5.1 to 2-channel audio yet keep it in sync with
    the video.

    I suppose I can play it back-into the camercorder-tape, then play that
    back as 2-channel!
     
    RickMerrill, Mar 4, 2009
    #3
  4. RickMerrill

    Guest

    On Mar 4, 12:47 pm, RickMerrill <>
    wrote:
    > ushere wrote:
    > > RickMerrill wrote:
    > >> Recorded DV25 files in 5.1 mode (mistakenly) so the frame rate was
    > >> reduced and the results are horrific.

    >
    > >> I need to replay the DV25 files back to the camera OR find some
    > >> software that will convert them. Any suggestions?

    >
    > > please explain? you captured how? 5.1 is audio. 5:1 is default
    > > compression for dv.....

    >
    > Correct: 5.1 audio when it should have been simple 2channel.
    >
    > The result was to lower the frame rate over 1394 so the sound
    > is like Mickey Mouse on adrenaline.
    >
    > Now I need to convert 5.1 to 2-channel audio yet keep it in sync with
    > the video.
    >
    > I suppose I can play it back-into the camercorder-tape, then play that
    > back as 2-channel!




    There's no reason (that I can think of) why capturing 5.1 would affect
    your frame rate.
    What camcorder did these files come from and what NLE are you using?

    Mike
     
    , Mar 4, 2009
    #4
  5. "RickMerrill" <> wrote in message
    news:gokjv9$nv5$...
    > Recorded DV25 files in 5.1 mode (mistakenly) so the
    > frame rate was reduced and the results are horrific.
    >


    Is the frame rate really reduced or is your playback system having problems
    with only the audio decode?

    You may want to post a chunk of one of the files somewhere for us to see.


    > I need to replay the DV25 files back to the camera
    > OR find some software that will convert them. Any
    > suggestions?


    I guess the tapes are gone? If you have some frame dropouts recordign back
    to the caemra won't do much for ya.
     
    Flatulent Father Flannigan, Mar 4, 2009
    #5
  6. "RickMerrill" wrote ...
    > ushere wrote:
    >> RickMerrill wrote:
    >>> Recorded DV25 files in 5.1 mode (mistakenly) so the frame rate was
    >>> reduced and the results are horrific.
    >>>
    >>> I need to replay the DV25 files back to the camera OR find some
    >>> software that will convert them. Any suggestions?

    >>
    >> please explain? you captured how? 5.1 is audio. 5:1 is default
    >> compression for dv.....

    >
    > Correct: 5.1 audio when it should have been simple 2channel.


    The DV format does not support "5.1 audio" that I've ever heard of.
    Do you have any kind of reference for this? The only alternate audio
    mode for DV that I've seen in the 4-channel one (4 channels @ 12-
    bit vs. the "normal" 2-channels @ 16-bit). The 12-bit resolution is
    so lousy that nobody uses this mode (except accidentlly, after which
    they complain bitterly about it.)

    > The result was to lower the frame rate over 1394 so the sound
    > is like Mickey Mouse on adrenaline.
    >
    > Now I need to convert 5.1 to 2-channel audio yet keep it in sync with the
    > video.


    It is actually *out of sync* now? Or is it in-sync, but at the wrong
    pitch (or whatever)?

    > I suppose I can play it back-into the camercorder-tape, then play that
    > back as 2-channel!


    What equipment was it originally recorded on?
    What equipment and software was it captured with?
     
    Richard Crowley, Mar 4, 2009
    #6
  7. "Richard Crowley" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "RickMerrill" wrote ...
    >> ushere wrote:
    >>> RickMerrill wrote:
    >>>> Recorded DV25 files in 5.1 mode (mistakenly) so the frame rate was
    >>>> reduced and the results are horrific.
    >>>>
    >>>> I need to replay the DV25 files back to the camera OR find some
    >>>> software that will convert them. Any suggestions?
    >>>
    >>> please explain? you captured how? 5.1 is audio. 5:1 is default
    >>> compression for dv.....

    >>
    >> Correct: 5.1 audio when it should have been simple 2channel.

    >
    > The DV format does not support "5.1 audio" that I've ever heard of.


    May have been 32Khz audio eh?


    >
     
    Flatulent Father Flannigan, Mar 4, 2009
    #7
  8. RickMerrill

    RickMerrill Guest

    Flatulent Father Flannigan wrote:
    > "Richard Crowley" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> "RickMerrill" wrote ...
    >>> ushere wrote:
    >>>> RickMerrill wrote:
    >>>>> Recorded DV25 files in 5.1 mode (mistakenly) so the frame rate was
    >>>>> reduced and the results are horrific.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I need to replay the DV25 files back to the camera OR find some
    >>>>> software that will convert them. Any suggestions?
    >>>> please explain? you captured how? 5.1 is audio. 5:1 is default
    >>>> compression for dv.....
    >>> Correct: 5.1 audio when it should have been simple 2channel.

    >> The DV format does not support "5.1 audio" that I've ever heard of.

    >
    > May have been 32Khz audio eh?
    >
    >
    >
    >



    I have been told that the 4-channel reduces the audio to 32khz
    and I need 48khz - so I am Guessing that 5.1 had a similar effect.
    [I should not have called it a 'frame rate' change but an audio encodign
    reduction.]

    What can I find that will let me recover the data?
     
    RickMerrill, Mar 4, 2009
    #8
  9. "RickMerrill" wrote ...
    > I have been told that the 4-channel reduces the audio to 32khz
    > and I need 48khz - so I am Guessing that 5.1 had a similar effect.
    > [I should not have called it a 'frame rate' change but an audio encodign
    > reduction.]


    You need to provide us (me, at least) with some reference for "5.1
    audio" on DV before I will even believe this is what you have.

    > What can I find that will let me recover the data?


    Asking again: What equipment was it recorded on?
    What equipment and software was it captured with?
    Can you play back the original tape on the original equipment?
    Are the sound tracks reproduced correctly when you do that?
    Barring that, that you may have a sticky problem on your hands.

    I strongly suspect that the tape was recorded in 4-channel (12-bit,
    32KHz sample rate) mode, and then improperly captured in 2-
    channel, 16-bit, 48KHz sample rate mode. Proper equipment
    and/or software should not have even allowed this capture to
    happen in the first place, so you are starting with an unknown,
    undefined, bastard data stream. Hence the only known good
    solution is to play back the original tape on the original equipment
    and get the capture right in the first place.

    And I still don't believe there is any such thing as "5.1 audio"
    possible in DV recording. Unless you're talking about some
    sort of encoded, matrixed, add-on scheme like this....
    http://www.holophone.com/home.html
     
    Richard Crowley, Mar 4, 2009
    #9
  10. RickMerrill

    RickMerrill Guest

    Richard Crowley wrote:
    > "RickMerrill" wrote ...
    >> I have been told that the 4-channel reduces the audio to 32khz
    >> and I need 48khz - so I am Guessing that 5.1 had a similar effect.
    >> [I should not have called it a 'frame rate' change but an audio encodign
    >> reduction.]

    >
    > You need to provide us (me, at least) with some reference for "5.1
    > audio" on DV before I will even believe this is what you have.


    Parse this:
    Mic: ECM-HW1R bluetooth set to 5.1ch CENTER ==>
    Camcorder: Sony HDR-HC1 4:3 1394 ==>
    Tapeless: FireStore FS4 recording DV Raw.

    >> What can I find that will let me recover the data?

    >
    > Asking again: What equipment was it recorded on?
    > What equipment and software was it captured with?
    > Can you play back the original tape on the original equipment?


    If you "paguntas" the above, you will see there was No Tape.

    > Are the sound tracks reproduced correctly when you do that?

    I'm about to try that.

    > Barring that, that you may have a sticky problem on your hands.

    Don't I know it!


    > I strongly suspect that the tape was recorded in 4-channel (12-bit,
    > 32KHz sample rate) mode,


    All the evidence is that you are correct in this.

    > and then improperly captured in 2-
    > channel, 16-bit, 48KHz sample rate mode. Proper equipment
    > and/or software should not have even allowed this capture to
    > happen in the first place, so you are starting with an unknown,
    > undefined, bastard data stream. Hence the only known good
    > solution is to play back the original tape on the original equipment
    > and get the capture right in the first place.
    >
    > And I still don't believe there is any such thing as "5.1 audio"
    > possible in DV recording. Unless you're talking about some
    > sort of encoded, matrixed, add-on scheme like this....
    > http://www.holophone.com/home.html
    >


    That's what Sony calls it. See above.
     
    RickMerrill, Mar 5, 2009
    #10
  11. "RickMerrill" wrote ...
    > Richard Crowley wrote:
    >> You need to provide us (me, at least) with some reference for "5.1
    >> audio" on DV before I will even believe this is what you have.

    >
    > Parse this:
    > Mic: ECM-HW1R bluetooth set to 5.1ch CENTER ==>
    > Camcorder: Sony HDR-HC1 4:3 1394 ==>
    > Tapeless: FireStore FS4 recording DV Raw.
    >
    >>> What can I find that will let me recover the data?

    >>
    >> Asking again: What equipment was it recorded on?
    >> What equipment and software was it captured with?
    >> Can you play back the original tape on the original equipment?

    >
    > If you "paguntas" the above, you will see there was No Tape.


    The listed camera appears to have ordinary 2-channel ("stereo")
    audio recording and playback functionality. No "5.1" in evidence.

    DV-25 does not support "5.1" audio. Never did. Never will.

    "5.1" appears to be a marketing gimmick for your Bluetooth mic.

    You appear to have a compatibility or operational problem between
    your (monaural) Bluetooth microphone and your camera.

    Suggest using a conventional microphone (the built-in mic or some
    regular plug-in mic) and see if you can record and playback sound
    properly.

    Did the camera record any of the troublesome footage? Does the
    audio play back on the camera properly?
     
    Richard Crowley, Mar 5, 2009
    #11
  12. RickMerrill

    RickMerrill Guest

    Richard Crowley wrote:
    > "RickMerrill" wrote ...
    >> Richard Crowley wrote:
    >>> You need to provide us (me, at least) with some reference for "5.1
    >>> audio" on DV before I will even believe this is what you have.

    >> Parse this:
    >> Mic: ECM-HW1R bluetooth set to 5.1ch CENTER ==>
    >> Camcorder: Sony HDR-HC1 4:3 1394 ==>
    >> Tapeless: FireStore FS4 recording DV Raw.
    >>
    >>>> What can I find that will let me recover the data?
    >>> Asking again: What equipment was it recorded on?
    >>> What equipment and software was it captured with?
    >>> Can you play back the original tape on the original equipment?

    >> If you "paguntas" the above, you will see there was No Tape.

    >
    > The listed camera appears to have ordinary 2-channel ("stereo")
    > audio recording and playback functionality. No "5.1" in evidence.
    >
    > DV-25 does not support "5.1" audio. Never did. Never will.
    >
    > "5.1" appears to be a marketing gimmick for your Bluetooth mic.


    I can buy that. But I'm told that DV-25 does support 4-channel at lower
    than needed encoding rate.

    > You appear to have a compatibility or operational problem between
    > your (monaural) Bluetooth microphone and your camera.


    Only with this particular setting.

    > Suggest using a conventional microphone (the built-in mic or some
    > regular plug-in mic) and see if you can record and playback sound
    > properly.


    Have done that many times - forgot to check the setting on the bluetooth
    this time.

    > Did the camera record any of the troublesome footage? Does the
    > audio play back on the camera properly?


    Actually it did! I've just played it back and re-recorded it - we'll see!
     
    RickMerrill, Mar 5, 2009
    #12
  13. "RickMerrill" wrote ...
    > I can buy that. But I'm told that DV-25 does support 4-channel at lower
    > than needed encoding rate.


    DV supports two audio modes:
    2-channel, 16-bit, 48K sample rate
    4-channel, 12-bit, 32K sample rate
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dv#Audio

    But it is the 12-bit resolution more than the 32K sample rate that
    makes the audio performance sub-par to most peoples' ears.

    Because of the poor quality of the 4-channel mode, there is little
    support for the mode. Nobody has ever come to these newsgroups
    saying how pleased they were with the 4-channel performance.
     
    Richard Crowley, Mar 5, 2009
    #13
  14. RickMerrill

    RickMerrill Guest

    Richard Crowley wrote:
    > "RickMerrill" wrote ...
    >> I can buy that. But I'm told that DV-25 does support 4-channel at lower
    >> than needed encoding rate.

    >
    > DV supports two audio modes:
    > 2-channel, 16-bit, 48K sample rate
    > 4-channel, 12-bit, 32K sample rate
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dv#Audio
    >
    > But it is the 12-bit resolution more than the 32K sample rate that
    > makes the audio performance sub-par to most peoples' ears.
    >
    > Because of the poor quality of the 4-channel mode, there is little
    > support for the mode. Nobody has ever come to these newsgroups
    > saying how pleased they were with the 4-channel performance.
    >
    >


    I did my 1st ever recording at 12-bit and the result was total silence
    from the playout video server! Well, 2^12/2^16 is pretty low!

    Apparently the Mickey mouse is because the 5.1-ch was downgraded to 4-ch
    and the 32khz gets played back at 48khz - ta da!

    I'll try playback without 1394!
     
    RickMerrill, Mar 5, 2009
    #14
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