HDV ... true HD Image Sensors ... ie 1440 x 1080 is NOT 1920 x 1080

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by bobby.kurtz@gmail.com, Aug 22, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Can anyone explain to me something thats been bugging me ever since the
    appearence of HDV cams on the market.

    Most of the HDV cams I have seen are using CCD's of resolutions or 1440
    x 1080 instead of the full 1920 x 1080 required for HD. One example
    being the $6k Canon X1 H1. Is there a specific reason for this. Its
    like the whole streched 16:9 mode of DV cameras, which I thought was
    something that we would never see again with the square pixel 2
    resolution HD standards.
    Meanwhile Canon is about to release a $1200 HV10 CMOS censor HDV cam
    that has a true 1920 x 1080 optical sensor. This makes absolutely ZERO
    sense to me. Don't get me wrong, the HV10 is a great deal, but why
    does the $5000 X1 H1 not have the full resolution.

    That being said in a similar note, no cameras seem to support 1280 x
    720 / 24p or at least that feature may be downplayed in specifications
    I am seeing ... they almost all seem to do some kind of propriatary
    1080i variations.
    , Aug 22, 2006
    #1
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  2. Jim Guest

    JVC GY-HD100 is 720P

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    J.B. 05312006
    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Can anyone explain to me something thats been bugging me ever since the
    > appearence of HDV cams on the market.
    >
    > Most of the HDV cams I have seen are using CCD's of resolutions or 1440
    > x 1080 instead of the full 1920 x 1080 required for HD. One example
    > being the $6k Canon X1 H1. Is there a specific reason for this. Its
    > like the whole streched 16:9 mode of DV cameras, which I thought was
    > something that we would never see again with the square pixel 2
    > resolution HD standards.
    > Meanwhile Canon is about to release a $1200 HV10 CMOS censor HDV cam
    > that has a true 1920 x 1080 optical sensor. This makes absolutely ZERO
    > sense to me. Don't get me wrong, the HV10 is a great deal, but why
    > does the $5000 X1 H1 not have the full resolution.
    >
    > That being said in a similar note, no cameras seem to support 1280 x
    > 720 / 24p or at least that feature may be downplayed in specifications
    > I am seeing ... they almost all seem to do some kind of propriatary
    > 1080i variations.
    >
    Jim, Aug 22, 2006
    #2
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  3. Frank Guest

    On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:42:52 GMT, in 'rec.video.desktop',
    in article <Re: HDV ... true HD Image Sensors ... ie 1440 x 1080 is
    NOT 1920 x 1080>,
    "Jim" <> wrote:

    >JVC GY-HD100 is 720P



    All JVC HDV products (camcorders and VCRs) are 720p.

    All Sony HDV products (camcorders and VCRs) and Canon HDV camcorders
    (Canon doesn't offer an HDV VCR) are 1080i.

    The GY-HD100U (North America) has been replaced by the GY-HD110U.

    The GY-HD100E (Europe) has been replaced by the GY-HD110E.

    The GY-HD101E (Europe) has been replaced by the GY-HD111E.

    --
    Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
    [Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
    Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
    Frank, Aug 22, 2006
    #3
  4. Frank Guest

    On 22 Aug 2006 07:21:35 -0700, in 'rec.video.desktop',
    in article <HDV ... true HD Image Sensors ... ie 1440 x 1080 is NOT
    1920 x 1080>,
    wrote:

    >Can anyone explain to me something thats been bugging me ever since the
    >appearence of HDV cams on the market.
    >
    >Most of the HDV cams I have seen are using CCD's of resolutions or 1440
    >x 1080 instead of the full 1920 x 1080 required for HD. One example
    >being the $6k Canon X1 H1.


    The Canon XL H1 is $9K, not $6K.

    >Is there a specific reason for this.


    Cost, availability of sensors in a certain size, and the fact that in
    the 1080i HDV format only 1440 pixels per scan line are written to
    tape anyway--not the full 1920. And to some degree, market perception
    and the need to develop a product that can sell at a certain price
    point.

    >Its
    >like the whole streched 16:9 mode of DV cameras, which I thought was
    >something that we would never see again with the square pixel 2
    >resolution HD standards.


    16:9 aspect ratio 1920 x 1080 1080i HDV is anamorphically squeezed to
    4:3 1440 x 1080 for storage and transmission. Many if not most 1080i
    formats are treated this same way. It conserves bandwidth and storage.

    All HD formats do have certain things in common, but the use of square
    pixels isn't one of them.

    >Meanwhile Canon is about to release a $1200 HV10 CMOS censor HDV cam
    >that has a true 1920 x 1080 optical sensor. This makes absolutely ZERO
    >sense to me. Don't get me wrong, the HV10 is a great deal,


    We have different ideas of what constitutes a "great deal".
    Personally, I would decline a truckload of free HV10's, but I wouldn't
    say no to an XH G1.

    >but why does the $5000 X1 H1 not have the full resolution.


    It's still writing the same 1440 by 1080 frames to tape.

    >That being said in a similar note, no cameras seem to support 1280 x
    >720 / 24p or at least that feature may be downplayed in specifications
    >I am seeing ... they almost all seem to do some kind of propriatary
    >1080i variations.


    JVC produces 720p HDV camcorders. Sony and Canon are in the 1080i HDV
    camp.

    --
    Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
    [Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
    Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
    Frank, Aug 23, 2006
    #4
  5. On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 01:51:24 GMT, Frank
    <> wrote:

    >Cost, availability of sensors in a certain size, and the fact that in
    >the 1080i HDV format only 1440 pixels per scan line are written to
    >tape anyway--not the full 1920.


    It's also worth pointing out that the majority of HD transmissions are
    from Sony HDCam tape at the moment, which similarly only records 1440
    pixels to tape.

    Steve

    The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
    http://www.restoration-team.co.uk
    Steve Roberts, Aug 23, 2006
    #5
  6. David Chien Guest

    Re: HDV ... true HD Image Sensors ... ie 1440 x 1080 is NOT 1920x 1080

    > Most of the HDV cams I have seen are using CCD's of resolutions or 1440
    > x 1080 instead of the full 1920 x 1080 required for HD. One example
    > being the $6k Canon X1 H1. Is there a specific reason for this. Its
    > like the whole streched 16:9 mode of DV cameras, which I thought was


    Simple, in the past, making a true 1920x1080 sensor that's capable
    of 30fps output simply wasn't possible/cheap for a consumer level
    camcorder. Technology moves fast, and the latest will always improve
    upon the prior releases.

    That's why the initial release of HDV camcorders from JVC, Sony,
    etc. all didn't use a true 1920x1080 sensor (or even have true 1080 output).

    This year, the first batch of second generation HDV camcorders are
    out, and that's why you see such from Canon, etc. having true 1920x1080
    sensors.

    That said, it's a good time to hold off on the purchase until the
    Canon comes out, and reviews are in. Figure if you're going to drop
    $1000+ on a camcorder, might as well see if their true 1920x1080 sensor
    is light years ahead of the competition, or simply marketing hype.

    ---
    David Chien, Aug 30, 2006
    #6
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