Is 'lost' EXIF data gone forever?

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Terry Pinnell, Mar 23, 2005.

  1. I'm trying to reconstruct the chronological sequence of many holiday
    photos, edited before I wised up to all the issues over the
    impermenance of EXIF data.

    Before I give up and resort entirely to guesswork and arguments with
    my wife, can I just double check with the experts here on one
    fundamental point please. Is there *any* way that JPG files on my HD
    can be processed to yield the original EXIF data? The files obviously
    started life in my digicam, complete with EXIF Date/Time to the
    second, so it's frustrating to have lost it.

    In the same sense that 'deleted' HD files *can* actually be recovered,
    is there any program that will do so for my EXIF data please?

    If, as I suspect, the answer is a firm No, then out of intellectual
    curiosity, can anyone explain in non-techie terms why it wasn't simply
    preserved? That is, regardless of various image editors' indifference
    to it?

    --
    Terry, West Sussex, UK
     
    Terry Pinnell, Mar 23, 2005
    #1
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  2. On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:57:01 +0000, Terry Pinnell wrote:

    > I'm trying to reconstruct the chronological sequence of many holiday
    > photos, edited before I wised up to all the issues over the
    > impermenance of EXIF data.
    >
    > Before I give up and resort entirely to guesswork and arguments with
    > my wife, can I just double check with the experts here on one
    > fundamental point please. Is there *any* way that JPG files on my HD
    > can be processed to yield the original EXIF data? The files obviously
    > started life in my digicam, complete with EXIF Date/Time to the
    > second, so it's frustrating to have lost it.
    >
    > In the same sense that 'deleted' HD files *can* actually be recovered,
    > is there any program that will do so for my EXIF data please?
    >
    > If, as I suspect, the answer is a firm No, then out of intellectual
    > curiosity, can anyone explain in non-techie terms why it wasn't simply
    > preserved? That is, regardless of various image editors' indifference
    > to it?



    There is no way to recover the EXIF data once it has been overwritten.

    Apparently those photos have been edited buy a Photo Editor that does not
    preserve EXIF data then saved under the same filename overwriting the
    original file.

    The .JPG file format has been around for a long time and as a result has
    many extensions to the format. Old JPG editors and / or simple editor
    programs don't support the latest file formats so EXIF data can be easily
    lost. There is lots of technical information about EXIF on the WEB.

    You should always make backup copies of the Original files.
    These are your "Digital Negatives" and they cannot be replaced once they are
    destroyed.

    Only work with Copies of the original files.

    CD-ROM Disk are cheep insurance against loosing irreplaceable files such
    as original camera files.







    --
    Korbin Dallas
    The name was changed to protect the guilty.
     
    Korbin Dallas, Mar 23, 2005
    #2
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  3. Terry Pinnell

    Hannah Guest

    "Terry Pinnell" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > I'm trying to reconstruct the chronological sequence of many holiday
    > photos, edited before I wised up to all the issues over the
    > impermenance of EXIF data.
    >


    You actually pressed Delete on a number of your *original* pictures then?
    Wow. That's extraordinary.
    Don't EVER do that again.

    But ref your chronological sequence problem, surely it is identical to the
    numbering sequence of your copies? Or don't tell me you renamed them to the
    likes of "Mary paddling in the sea at Brighton.jpg"?

    H.
     
    Hannah, Mar 23, 2005
    #3
  4. Terry Pinnell wrote:
    []
    > If, as I suspect, the answer is a firm No, then out of intellectual
    > curiosity, can anyone explain in non-techie terms why it wasn't simply
    > preserved? That is, regardless of various image editors' indifference
    > to it?


    It takes more programming effort to preserve it. Try Paint Shop Pro 9
    which will preserve at least some of the EXIF information if you ask it.

    Sorry to hear you lost the originals, but next time be sure to backup onto
    CD or DVD first. I suppose the originals aren't still on your memory
    cards? We have a work flow which keeps originals ("masters") and edited
    copies ("prints") on the computer until all editing is finished.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Mar 23, 2005
    #4
  5. Terry Pinnell

    Owamanga Guest

    On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:14:35 GMT, Korbin Dallas
    <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:57:01 +0000, Terry Pinnell wrote:
    >
    >You should always make backup copies of the Original files.
    >These are your "Digital Negatives" and they cannot be replaced once they are
    >destroyed.


    Yes, this should be done immediately following the download and before
    erasing the card.

    >Only work with Copies of the original files.


    Definitely only save new files, never overwrite an original.

    >CD-ROM Disk are cheep insurance against loosing irreplaceable files such
    >as original camera files.


    DVD-R would be more suitable. It is a physically tougher medium, and
    can accommodate more data.

    --
    Owamanga!
    http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
     
    Owamanga, Mar 23, 2005
    #5
  6. Terry Pinnell

    Ron Hunter Guest

    jere7my tho?rpe wrote:
    > In article <wyi0e.2096$>,
    > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>CD-ROM Disk are cheep insurance against loosing irreplaceable files
    >>>such as original camera files.

    >>
    >>They degrade to unusability within 2 years. Hard drive backup is much more
    >>reliable.

    >
    >
    > Er, not really. I have 6-year-old CD-Rs that are still perfectly fine,
    > and hard drives that have failed with some frequency. I would recommend
    > keeping both, and making new CD backups every few years.
    >
    > ----j7y
    >

    I find it simpler, faster, and in the end, cheaper, to just copy my
    pictures to several HDs. With storage at below $.50 a GB, even CDR's
    are more expensive if you buy good ones.


    --
    Ron Hunter
     
    Ron Hunter, Mar 23, 2005
    #6
  7. Terry Pinnell

    Ron Krebs Guest

    "jere7my tho?rpe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <wyi0e.2096$>,
    > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > > CD-ROM Disk are cheep insurance against loosing irreplaceable files
    > > > such as original camera files.

    > >
    > > They degrade to unusability within 2 years. Hard drive backup is much

    more
    > > reliable.

    >
    > Er, not really. I have 6-year-old CD-Rs that are still perfectly fine,
    > and hard drives that have failed with some frequency. I would recommend
    > keeping both, and making new CD backups every few years.
    >


    Not only that, I have a DVD RAM drive and that media is extremely long-lived
    and not as expensive as it used to be. Great for archiving. Besides, HDD
    failures are more apt to occur than something happening to my RAM discs kept
    in a fire proof document safe.

    Ron
     
    Ron Krebs, Mar 24, 2005
    #7
  8. Terry Pinnell

    mort Guest

    Not so. Special gold Cd-Rs such as Delkin Archival Gold supposedly will last
    100 years, as estimated by accelerated testing. In any event, hard drives do
    fail, you know. Even the gold CD-R blanks cost about $1.75 each, a heck of a
    lot cheaper than a spare hard drive.
    Morton

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:

    > > CD-ROM Disk are cheep insurance against loosing irreplaceable files
    > > such
    > > as original camera files.

    >
    > They degrade to unusability within 2 years. Hard drive backup is much more
    > reliable.
    > --
    > Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
    mort, Mar 24, 2005
    #8
  9. "David J Taylor"
    <-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk> wrote:

    >Terry Pinnell wrote:
    >[]
    >> If, as I suspect, the answer is a firm No, then out of intellectual
    >> curiosity, can anyone explain in non-techie terms why it wasn't simply
    >> preserved? That is, regardless of various image editors' indifference
    >> to it?

    >
    >It takes more programming effort to preserve it. Try Paint Shop Pro 9
    >which will preserve at least some of the EXIF information if you ask it.
    >
    >Sorry to hear you lost the originals, but next time be sure to backup onto
    >CD or DVD first. I suppose the originals aren't still on your memory
    >cards? We have a work flow which keeps originals ("masters") and edited
    >copies ("prints") on the computer until all editing is finished.
    >
    >Cheers,
    >David
    >


    Thanks all, that's pretty well what I expected. Must say I'm still a
    bit surprised that a single crop or brightness increase in PaintShop
    Pro 7, for example, has placed all EXIF data in that file beyond even
    partial recovery of a clever program.

    Needless to say, I do things differently now. But that leaves a fair
    bit of detective work to be done on the victims of my early-day
    carelessness!

    But I suppose anyone who has digitised old photos from scans of prints
    and slides must be used to similar chores? The bulk of my prints have
    no dates marked on the reverse side, and I never got around to marking
    many of them myself.

    --
    Terry, West Sussex, UK
     
    Terry Pinnell, Mar 24, 2005
    #9
  10. Terry Pinnell wrote:
    []
    > But I suppose anyone who has digitised old photos from scans of prints
    > and slides must be used to similar chores? The bulk of my prints have
    > no dates marked on the reverse side, and I never got around to marking
    > many of them myself.


    All my slides and my wife's prints have the film and print number on them.
    Mostly they were taken at "events" of one form or another, and the events
    were recorded on a database.

    Having said that, we don't have any plans at the moment to digitise old
    stuff - rather as when CDs came out it was chance to purchase fresh
    versions or different works as one's tastes had changed over the years, so
    digital is a chance to start from scratch or revisit those places which
    are merely memories now....

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Mar 24, 2005
    #10
  11. Terry Pinnell

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:35:54 +0000, in rec.photo.digital Terry Pinnell
    <> wrote:

    >Thanks all, that's pretty well what I expected. Must say I'm still a
    >bit surprised that a single crop or brightness increase in PaintShop
    >Pro 7, for example, has placed all EXIF data in that file beyond even
    >partial recovery of a clever program.


    Why, PSP7 doesn't preserve the exif info. If you then resaved the
    files using the same name and you're overwriting the copy of the file
    that contained it, or at least the reference to it. IF you immediately
    stopped and wrote nothing else to the hard disk the original file
    containing the exif info might be recoverable. Once other writes are
    made to the disk the chance of this being possible gets smaller and
    smaller. You can try a file recovery program such as PC Inspector on
    your disk and memory card and see what you might be able to recover.
    Aside from that it's over.


    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
     
    Ed Ruf, Mar 24, 2005
    #11
  12. Ron Krebs wrote:
    > Not only that, I have a DVD RAM drive and that media is extremely long-lived
    > and not as expensive as it used to be. Great for archiving. Besides, HDD
    > failures are more apt to occur than something happening to my RAM discs kept
    > in a fire proof document safe.
    >
    > Ron


    Don't expect a "fire proof document safe" to preserve your DVDs or CDs.

    -Dave
     
    Dave Herzstein, Mar 24, 2005
    #12
  13. mort wrote:
    >
    > Not so. Special gold Cd-Rs such as Delkin Archival Gold supposedly will last
    > 100 years, as estimated by accelerated testing. In any event, hard drives do
    > fail, you know. Even the gold CD-R blanks cost about $1.75 each, a heck of a
    > lot cheaper than a spare hard drive.
    > Morton


    I've been paying < $100 per 200GB HDD, less cost/MB than gold CDs. I
    keep my HDDs in removeable trays in USB/Firewire housings so that
    they're portable, adaptable and powered only when needed. And I also
    back up to DVD.

    -Dave
     
    Dave Herzstein, Mar 24, 2005
    #13
  14. Terry Pinnell

    Bubbabob Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <> wrote:

    >> CD-ROM Disk are cheep insurance against loosing irreplaceable files
    >> such
    >> as original camera files.

    >
    > They degrade to unusability within 2 years.


    Nonsense. Quit buying 100 for $19.99 closeouts and your problem will go
    away.
     
    Bubbabob, Mar 24, 2005
    #14
  15. Terry Pinnell

    Guest

    "Ron Krebs" <> wrote:

    >Not only that, I have a DVD RAM drive and that media is extremely long-lived
    >and not as expensive as it used to be. Great for archiving. Besides, HDD
    >failures are more apt to occur than something happening to my RAM discs kept
    >in a fire proof document safe.
    >
    >Ron


    Fire proof (resistant) relates to paper. Internal temps are allowed
    to come up to a limit of 350F during fire. Take a cd dvd hd and give
    it 15 minutes at 300+ in your oven and get back to me.

    I have oversimplified this a bit.

    Wes
    --
    Reply to:
    Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
    Lycos address is a spam trap.
     
    , Mar 25, 2005
    #15
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