Olympus E-410/510, horrifying magenta highlight problem

Discussion in 'Olympus' started by RichA, Aug 11, 2007.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Shades of Leica with the purple blacks? No, Leica owned up to the
    problem. Olympus is keeping dead silent and letting the guinea pigs,
    er, customers sort it out.

    I'm not used to this. Olympus releasing cameras with flaws. Most
    Olympus (compared to many other brands) work without a hitch. Not
    this time. Much speculation as to the cause.

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&thread=24311898&page=3
     
    RichA, Aug 11, 2007
    #1
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  2. RichA

    John Sheehy Guest

    RichA <> wrote in news:1186790556.554355.154940
    @e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

    > Shades of Leica with the purple blacks? No, Leica owned up to the
    > problem. Olympus is keeping dead silent and letting the guinea pigs,
    > er, customers sort it out.
    >
    > I'm not used to this. Olympus releasing cameras with flaws. Most
    > Olympus (compared to many other brands) work without a hitch. Not
    > this time. Much speculation as to the cause.


    This is a simple case of RAW converters not recognizing the real clipping
    points in the RAW data.

    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    John Sheehy, Aug 11, 2007
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Pete D Guest

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    "RichA" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Shades of Leica with the purple blacks? No, Leica owned up to the
    > problem. Olympus is keeping dead silent and letting the guinea pigs,
    > er, customers sort it out.
    >
    > I'm not used to this. Olympus releasing cameras with flaws. Most
    > Olympus (compared to many other brands) work without a hitch. Not
    > this time. Much speculation as to the cause.
    >
    > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&thread=24311898&page=3
    >
     
    Pete D, Aug 11, 2007
    #3
  4. RichA

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <>, RichA
    says...
    > Shades of Leica with the purple blacks? No, Leica owned up to the
    > problem. Olympus is keeping dead silent and letting the guinea pigs,
    > er, customers sort it out.
    >
    > I'm not used to this. Olympus releasing cameras with flaws. Most
    > Olympus (compared to many other brands) work without a hitch. Not
    > this time. Much speculation as to the cause.
    >
    > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&thread=24311898&page=3


    As written there, the difference between 3900 and 4095 is minimal
    (1/14th of a stop). I doubt this has an impact on image quality. Do you
    have any sample images which prove otherwise?

    By the way, all RAW images of the Sony R1 I have here have a more or
    less strong red colour cast, which I have to correct during RAW
    conversion.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E3X0, E4X0 and E5X0 forum at
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
     
    Alfred Molon, Aug 11, 2007
    #4
  5. RichA

    DMac Guest

    On Aug 11, 10:02 am, RichA <> wrote:
    > Shades of Leica with the purple blacks? No, Leica owned up to the
    > problem. Olympus is keeping dead silent and letting the guinea pigs,
    > er, customers sort it out.
    >
    > I'm not used to this. Olympus releasing cameras with flaws. Most
    > Olympus (compared to many other brands) work without a hitch. Not
    > this time. Much speculation as to the cause.
    >
    > http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&thread=2431...


    For starters... It might have an Olympus badge but it's a Panasonic
    camera. Made by Panasonic and shipped to Olympus for distribution. I
    have no doubt whatsoever there is a firmware upgrade coming real soon.
    It's not a flaw either, just a miscalculation in the programming of
    the raw converter. Fixed in an instant with any halfway decent image
    editing program.

    You tried this alarmist stunt last week with a Oly loyality bash up.
    How about you find something worthwhile to try and light a fire under
    instead of this lame excuse for a "fault"?

    Doug
     
    DMac, Aug 11, 2007
    #5
  6. RichA

    John Bean Guest

    On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 02:59:23 -0700, DMac
    <> wrote:

    >On Aug 11, 10:02 am, RichA <> wrote:
    >> Shades of Leica with the purple blacks? No, Leica owned up to the
    >> problem. Olympus is keeping dead silent and letting the guinea pigs,
    >> er, customers sort it out.
    >>
    >> I'm not used to this. Olympus releasing cameras with flaws. Most
    >> Olympus (compared to many other brands) work without a hitch. Not
    >> this time. Much speculation as to the cause.
    >>
    >> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&thread=2431...

    >
    >For starters... It might have an Olympus badge but it's a Panasonic
    >camera. Made by Panasonic and shipped to Olympus for distribution.


    I find that unlikely, but of course I don't know. Panasonic
    had to buy the chassis and other components from Olympus to
    build the only SLR that carries their name. Why would they
    need to do that if they could make whole SLRs for Olympus?

    Source references for this assertion would be good.

    >You tried this alarmist stunt last week with a Oly loyality bash up.
    >How about you find something worthwhile to try and light a fire under
    >instead of this lame excuse for a "fault"?


    He does the best he can within his abilities.

    --
    John Bean
     
    John Bean, Aug 11, 2007
    #6
  7. RichA

    Nospam Guest

    In message <>, John Bean
    <> writes
    >On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 02:59:23 -0700, DMac
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>On Aug 11, 10:02 am, RichA <> wrote:
    >>> Shades of Leica with the purple blacks? No, Leica owned up to the
    >>> problem. Olympus is keeping dead silent and letting the guinea pigs,
    >>> er, customers sort it out.
    >>>
    >>> I'm not used to this. Olympus releasing cameras with flaws. Most
    >>> Olympus (compared to many other brands) work without a hitch. Not
    >>> this time. Much speculation as to the cause.
    >>>
    >>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&thread=2431...

    >>
    >>For starters... It might have an Olympus badge but it's a Panasonic
    >>camera. Made by Panasonic and shipped to Olympus for distribution.

    >
    >I find that unlikely, but of course I don't know. Panasonic
    >had to buy the chassis and other components from Olympus to
    >build the only SLR that carries their name. Why would they
    >need to do that if they could make whole SLRs for Olympus?
    >
    >Source references for this assertion would be good.
    >
    >>You tried this alarmist stunt last week with a Oly loyality bash up.
    >>How about you find something worthwhile to try and light a fire under
    >>instead of this lame excuse for a "fault"?

    >
    >He does the best he can within his abilities.
    >




    To cut a long storey short...


    are we saying there is NO real inherent problem with either of these
    Olympus cameras?

    They are both on my short list but after the OP's comment I was about to
    remove them from the list.

    BTW
    Do camera manufactures issue firmware updates for their cameras?

    I assume if they do u load them into the camera through the USB cable??


    --
    Nospam
     
    Nospam, Aug 11, 2007
    #7
  8. RichA

    John Bean Guest

    >are we saying there is NO real inherent problem with either of these
    >Olympus cameras?


    I don't know who "we" is, but I'm saying that. This is the
    summary of the "horrifying magenta highlight problem":

    1. There is no problem whatsoever shooting in JPEG.

    2. There is no problem whatsoever shooting in raw and
    converting with Olympus software.

    3. There is no problem whatsoever shooting in raw and
    converting with *any* converter unless highlights are
    completely blown and you try to recover the lost highlight
    data.

    So, the "horrifying magenta highlight problem" isn't
    actually a camera problem of any sort, rather a failure of
    non-Olympus raw converters to use the correct green-channel
    clip point. Now that it's been identified I expect it'll be
    fixed in the next round of releases.

    >They are both on my short list but after the OP's comment I was about to
    >remove them from the list.


    On the say-so of Rich? You have to be kidding. If whining,
    whinging, and spreading doom and gloom was an Olympic sport
    he'd take all the golds. He's an idiot, just ignore him.

    >BTW
    >Do camera manufactures issue firmware updates for their cameras?


    Usually, yes.

    >I assume if they do u load them into the camera through the USB cable??


    Varies by manufacturer. What you assume is correct for
    Olympus.

    --
    John Bean
     
    John Bean, Aug 11, 2007
    #8
  9. RichA

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <>, John Bean
    says...

    > >I assume if they do u load them into the camera through the USB cable??

    >
    > Varies by manufacturer. What you assume is correct for
    > Olympus.


    It's a relatively simple procedure, which you can do yourself.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E3X0, E4X0 and E5X0 forum at
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
     
    Alfred Molon, Aug 11, 2007
    #9
  10. RichA

    Nospam Guest


    >On the say-so of Rich? You have to be kidding. If whining,
    >whinging, and spreading doom and gloom was an Olympic sport
    >he'd take all the golds. He's an idiot, just ignore him.


    OK.

    The 510 is looking good to me.

    Thanks again
    --
    Nospam
     
    Nospam, Aug 11, 2007
    #10
  11. RichA

    Pete D Guest

    "Nospam" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >>On the say-so of Rich? You have to be kidding. If whining,
    >>whinging, and spreading doom and gloom was an Olympic sport
    >>he'd take all the golds. He's an idiot, just ignore him.

    >
    > OK.
    >
    > The 510 is looking good to me.
    >
    > Thanks again
    > --
    > Nospam


    I had a quiick play with a 510 and 410 in a shop and they seemed to work
    quite nicely but I did not like how live view was set up, the mirror kept
    flipping up and down and made you think you had taken a shot. This was with
    default settings but I expect that you should be able to lock it one way or
    the other, the viewfinders was also somewhat dull. I think they were pretty
    interesting. The 410 was quite attractive for a compact travel/backpack sort
    of camera allthough I did not like the positioning of the right hand strap
    clip.
     
    Pete D, Aug 11, 2007
    #11
  12. RichA

    Pete D Guest

    "Nospam" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >>On the say-so of Rich? You have to be kidding. If whining,
    >>whinging, and spreading doom and gloom was an Olympic sport
    >>he'd take all the golds. He's an idiot, just ignore him.

    >
    > OK.
    >
    > The 510 is looking good to me.
    >
    > Thanks again
    > --
    > Nospam


    Forgot to say, be aware that some of the lenes are very expensive so make
    sure that the lenses you want are within your budget.
     
    Pete D, Aug 11, 2007
    #12
  13. RichA

    John Bean Guest

    On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 07:26:52 +1000, "Pete D" <>
    wrote:
    > the viewfinders was also somewhat dull


    You're not wrong Pete :-(

    To the potential buyer: anyone buying an Olympus (other than
    the old E-1) needs to look carefully at the viewfinder
    size/brightness compared with class leaders in this area
    like Pentax. The smaller 4/3 format means the viewfinder is
    also smaller and the small camera bodies have dimmer VF
    optics as well. Small *and* dim isn't good.

    As a user of both Olympus (E-1) and Pentax (*istDS) my
    choice if buying a new model today would probably be the
    Pentax K10D rather than the Olympus E-510 for this very
    reason, but others whose opinions I respect have tried both
    and settled on the E-510 instead so it's a very personal
    choice.

    Bottom line is don't buy without checking them out in real
    life, pick the one that you like best - both are really nice
    cameras. Oh - and don't forget to ignore Rich, whatever you
    choose to buy ;-)


    --
    John Bean
     
    John Bean, Aug 11, 2007
    #13
  14. RichA

    Pete D Guest

    "John Bean" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 07:26:52 +1000, "Pete D" <>
    > wrote:
    >> the viewfinders was also somewhat dull

    >
    > You're not wrong Pete :-(
    >
    > To the potential buyer: anyone buying an Olympus (other than
    > the old E-1) needs to look carefully at the viewfinder
    > size/brightness compared with class leaders in this area
    > like Pentax. The smaller 4/3 format means the viewfinder is
    > also smaller and the small camera bodies have dimmer VF
    > optics as well. Small *and* dim isn't good.
    >
    > As a user of both Olympus (E-1) and Pentax (*istDS) my
    > choice if buying a new model today would probably be the
    > Pentax K10D rather than the Olympus E-510 for this very
    > reason, but others whose opinions I respect have tried both
    > and settled on the E-510 instead so it's a very personal
    > choice.
    >
    > Bottom line is don't buy without checking them out in real
    > life, pick the one that you like best - both are really nice
    > cameras. Oh - and don't forget to ignore Rich, whatever you
    > choose to buy ;-)
    >
    >
    > --
    > John Bean


    I have both a DS and a K10D and they are both wonderful cameras to use, I
    have a grip for both and a nice range of moderately priced lenses. I do
    sometimes think that one or other features in other systems would be nice
    but I still keep coming back to the fact that the overall package for each
    of these cameras are both excellent compromises for the shooting that I do,
    actually the only thing I would look to improve on the K10D would be to have
    the focusing system from one of the better Canons, it is adequate but could
    be better.

    I am actually thinking about selling the DS, a friend has indicated he would
    be interested and by adding a few hundred more dollars I could get a K100D
    as a second body, might just wait for the new release that might come out in
    October (I know something new is coming from Pentax it just might not be a
    body).

    Cheers.

    Pete
     
    Pete D, Aug 12, 2007
    #14
  15. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Aug 11, 5:59 am, DMac <> wrote:
    > On Aug 11, 10:02 am, RichA <> wrote:
    >
    > > Shades of Leica with the purple blacks? No, Leica owned up to the
    > > problem. Olympus is keeping dead silent and letting the guinea pigs,
    > > er, customers sort it out.

    >
    > > I'm not used to this. Olympus releasing cameras with flaws. Most
    > > Olympus (compared to many other brands) work without a hitch. Not
    > > this time. Much speculation as to the cause.

    >
    > >http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&thread=2431...

    >
    > For starters... It might have an Olympus badge but it's a Panasonic
    > camera. Made by Panasonic and shipped to Olympus for distribution. I
    > have no doubt whatsoever there is a firmware upgrade coming real soon.
    > It's not a flaw either, just a miscalculation in the programming of
    > the raw converter. Fixed in an instant with any halfway decent image
    > editing program.


    You hope. Why is it people think they can simply eliminate one colour
    shade (the magenta) and it won't effect others?
    BTW, you seem to have some knowledge about this. Will Olympus's new
    E-3 be made by Olympus in Japan, or will it be made by Panasonic in
    China like the E-410/510?
     
    RichA, Aug 12, 2007
    #15
  16. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Aug 11, 3:14 pm, John Bean <> wrote:
    > >are we saying there is NO real inherent problem with either of these
    > >Olympus cameras?

    >
    > I don't know who "we" is, but I'm saying that. This is the
    > summary of the "horrifying magenta highlight problem":
    >
    > 1. There is no problem whatsoever shooting in JPEG.
    >
    > 2. There is no problem whatsoever shooting in raw and
    > converting with Olympus software.
    >
    > 3. There is no problem whatsoever shooting in raw and
    > converting with *any* converter unless highlights are
    > completely blown and you try to recover the lost highlight
    > data.


    Rubbish. One of your clan on dpreveiw posted 7-8 images to counter
    the magenta argument last week. In point of fact, FIVE of the images
    showed the magenta problem and not only because of blown highlights.
    AFAIK, they don't yet lay down mauve ROADS in the United States, but
    that was one of the problems in the images posted. There are people
    who are not happy with Olympus saying nothing about this, but it is
    typical business practice these days.
     
    RichA, Aug 12, 2007
    #16
  17. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Aug 11, 6:19 pm, John Bean <> wrote:
    > On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 07:26:52 +1000, "Pete D" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > the viewfinders was also somewhat dull

    >
    > You're not wrong Pete :-(
    >
    > To the potential buyer: anyone buying an Olympus (other than
    > the old E-1) needs to look carefully at the viewfinder
    > size/brightness compared with class leaders in this area
    > like Pentax. The smaller 4/3 format means the viewfinder is
    > also smaller and the small camera bodies have dimmer VF
    > optics as well. Small *and* dim isn't good.
    >
    > As a user of both Olympus (E-1) and Pentax (*istDS) my
    > choice if buying a new model today would probably be the
    > Pentax K10D rather than the Olympus E-510 for this very
    > reason,


    Funny how one person's opinion diverges so much from one forum to the
    next.
     
    RichA, Aug 12, 2007
    #17
  18. RichA

    John Sheehy Guest

    Alfred Molon <> wrote in news:MPG.21278a989d717c7c98b652
    @news.supernews.com:

    > As written there, the difference between 3900 and 4095 is minimal
    > (1/14th of a stop). I doubt this has an impact on image quality. Do you
    > have any sample images which prove otherwise?


    Some cameras that claim 12-bit output use far less levels than that,
    particularly Canons. 4096 levels is overkill for most ISOs in most
    cameras; the noise is far too strong for mild quantization to be visible.

    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    John Sheehy, Aug 13, 2007
    #18
    1. Advertising

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