The limit for DVD video

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Brian, May 15, 2011.

  1. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
    useful.
    The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
    cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
    A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
    written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
    problems.

    Regards Brian
     
    Brian, May 15, 2011
    #1
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  2. Brian

    Mike S. Guest

    In article <>,
    Brian <> wrote:
    >Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
    >useful.
    >The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
    >cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
    >A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
    >written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
    >problems.
    >
    >Regards Brian


    http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html

    Maximum video bit rate is 9.8 Mbps. The "average" video bit rate is
    around 4 Mbps but depends entirely on the length, quality, amount of
    audio, etc. This is a 31:1 reduction from uncompressed 124 Mbps video
    source (or a 25:1 reduction from 100 Mbps film source). Raw channel
    data is read off the disc at a constant 26.16 Mbps. After 8/16
    demodulation it's down to 13.08 Mbps. After error correction the user
    data stream goes into the track buffer at a constant 11.08 Mbps. The
    track buffer feeds system stream data out at a variable rate of up to
    10.08 Mbps. After system overhead, the maximum rate of combined
    elementary streams (audio + video + subpicture) is 10.08. MPEG-1 video
    rate is limited to 1.856 Mbps with a typical rate of 1.15 Mbps.
     
    Mike S., May 15, 2011
    #2
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  3. Brian

    Frank Guest

    On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:28:31 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
    in article <The limit for DVD video>,
    Brian <> wrote:

    >Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
    >useful.
    >The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
    >cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
    >A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
    >written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
    >problems.



    Not sure from where you got this 17 Mbps figure, Brian, but it really
    depends upon just what you mean by "DVD disc".

    If you're referring to a DVD-Video disc that's intended for playback
    in an ordinary television-attached DVD player, you had better keep the
    maximum data rate under 9 Mbps, with an average in the 4 to 6 Mbps
    range, else what you will have created is an invalid disc, compared to
    the DVD-Video disc standard, and it will definitely *not* play back
    correctly, if at all.

    In fact, there's probably little to no DVD-Video disc authoring
    software out there that would allow you to create a DVD-Video disc
    with a 17 Mbps video data rate, given that 17 Mbps is w-a-y above the
    maximum permitted rate.

    OTOH, if you're referring to simply storing video files (in
    arbitrarily chosen file formats and using arbitrarily chosen codecs)
    on a DVD disc, that's a different story.

    In that situation, the ability to smoothly play back the files (on a
    computer, not in a standalone DVD-Video disc player) is primarily
    going to be a function of the speed of the drive (DVD or BD) in which
    the disc has been placed. Of course, even if the drive can't keep up
    with the data rate, you can always copy the files to your computer's
    hard disk drive and play them back from there.

    --
    Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
    [Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
    Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
    [also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].
     
    Frank, May 15, 2011
    #3
  4. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Frank <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:28:31 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
    >in article <The limit for DVD video>,
    >Brian <> wrote:
    >
    >>Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
    >>useful.
    >>The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
    >>cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
    >>A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
    >>written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
    >>problems.

    >
    >
    >Not sure from where you got this 17 Mbps figure, Brian, but it really
    >depends upon just what you mean by "DVD disc".
    >
    >If you're referring to a DVD-Video disc that's intended for playback
    >in an ordinary television-attached DVD player, you had better keep the
    >maximum data rate under 9 Mbps, with an average in the 4 to 6 Mbps
    >range, else what you will have created is an invalid disc, compared to
    >the DVD-Video disc standard, and it will definitely *not* play back
    >correctly, if at all.
    >
    >In fact, there's probably little to no DVD-Video disc authoring
    >software out there that would allow you to create a DVD-Video disc
    >with a 17 Mbps video data rate, given that 17 Mbps is w-a-y above the
    >maximum permitted rate.
    >
    >OTOH, if you're referring to simply storing video files (in
    >arbitrarily chosen file formats and using arbitrarily chosen codecs)
    >on a DVD disc, that's a different story.
    >
    >In that situation, the ability to smoothly play back the files (on a
    >computer, not in a standalone DVD-Video disc player) is primarily
    >going to be a function of the speed of the drive (DVD or BD) in which
    >the disc has been placed. Of course, even if the drive can't keep up
    >with the data rate, you can always copy the files to your computer's
    >hard disk drive and play them back from there.


    I think I got this information from a Sony camera manual.
    If like you say you can't copy a 17Mbps video to a DVD then how do you
    play it back on a TV? The manual says the camera will record AVCHD
    1920 x 1080 (50i) at 17Mbps.
    However at this data rate I would not be able to store much video on a
    DVD as it needs 8Gb's of space for 1 hour of video. The other option
    is to copy the video to a Blu-ray disc.

    Some of the Sony camera's will now record at 28 Mbps. There must be a
    limit where a higher video data rate is a waste of time.

    Regards Brian
     
    Brian, May 15, 2011
    #4
  5. Brian

    Frank Guest

    On Sun, 15 May 2011 19:07:23 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
    in article <Re: The limit for DVD video>,
    Brian <> wrote:

    >Frank <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:28:31 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
    >>in article <The limit for DVD video>,
    >>Brian <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
    >>>useful.
    >>>The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
    >>>cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
    >>>A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
    >>>written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
    >>>problems.

    >>
    >>
    >>Not sure from where you got this 17 Mbps figure, Brian, but it really
    >>depends upon just what you mean by "DVD disc".
    >>
    >>If you're referring to a DVD-Video disc that's intended for playback
    >>in an ordinary television-attached DVD player, you had better keep the
    >>maximum data rate under 9 Mbps, with an average in the 4 to 6 Mbps
    >>range, else what you will have created is an invalid disc, compared to
    >>the DVD-Video disc standard, and it will definitely *not* play back
    >>correctly, if at all.
    >>
    >>In fact, there's probably little to no DVD-Video disc authoring
    >>software out there that would allow you to create a DVD-Video disc
    >>with a 17 Mbps video data rate, given that 17 Mbps is w-a-y above the
    >>maximum permitted rate.
    >>
    >>OTOH, if you're referring to simply storing video files (in
    >>arbitrarily chosen file formats and using arbitrarily chosen codecs)
    >>on a DVD disc, that's a different story.
    >>
    >>In that situation, the ability to smoothly play back the files (on a
    >>computer, not in a standalone DVD-Video disc player) is primarily
    >>going to be a function of the speed of the drive (DVD or BD) in which
    >>the disc has been placed. Of course, even if the drive can't keep up
    >>with the data rate, you can always copy the files to your computer's
    >>hard disk drive and play them back from there.

    >
    >I think I got this information from a Sony camera manual.
    >If like you say you can't copy a 17Mbps video to a DVD


    I did not say that. I said that you could not create a playable, valid
    DVD-Video disc using data at that data rate. I also said that you
    could create a DVD data disc using any data rate video files that you
    wanted.

    Those are two very different types of discs, although you would use
    the exact same kind of blanks in either case. It's what you put on the
    disc that makes all the difference in the world.

    > then how do you
    >play it back on a TV? The manual says the camera will record AVCHD
    >1920 x 1080 (50i) at 17Mbps.


    Right, that's AVCHD. You can create BDs (Blu-ray Discs) or burn the
    files to a DVD. In either case, you'll be playing the disc back in a
    BD player, not in a DVD player.

    Note that not all BD players support "AVCHD on DVD" discs. Read the
    specs carefully prior to purchase.

    >However at this data rate I would not be able to store much video on a
    >DVD as it needs 8Gb's of space for 1 hour of video. The other option
    >is to copy the video to a Blu-ray disc.


    Right.

    >Some of the Sony camera's will now record at 28 Mbps. There must be a
    >limit where a higher video data rate is a waste of time.


    Sure, but the exact point of no return, or diminishing returns,
    depends upon the format, and lots of other variables including the
    resolving power of the lens, etc.

    Sony has been making HDCAM SR camcorders that record 880 Mbps MPEG-4
    Part 2 intra-frame video for years now, Panasonic offers camcorders
    that utilize its AVC-Intra 100 codec that records intra-frame MPEG-4
    Part 10 at 100 Mbps and there are pros who record uncompressed video
    at a 1.5 Gbps data rate. Convergent Designs' upcoming Gemini will be
    able to record uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 at a very
    reasonable price.

    Regards,

    --
    Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
    [Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
    Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
    [also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].
     
    Frank, May 15, 2011
    #5
  6. Brian

    HerHusband Guest

    Brian,

    > If like you say you can't copy a 17Mbps video to a DVD
    > then how do you play it back on a TV?


    If you want a video DVD that you can give to family and friends, you need
    to convert your original AVCHD video to MPEG2 with a maximum combined
    bitrate (audio and video) under 9Mbps. I usually just use a constant video
    bitrate of 6Mbps.

    You can save AVCHD clips to a "data" DVD, but I think you're limited to
    something like 15-20 minutes. You will also only be able to play these on
    specific Blu-Ray players that support those kinds of discs.

    Or, you can use a media player like the Tvix 6600N, Popcorn Hour, etc. to
    play back your videos. I have the Tvix 6600N and stream the videos I keep
    on my computer hard drive so I can watch them in the living room. I
    convert my original AVCHD clips to MPEG2 at 30Mpbs, but you could use MP4
    or other formats as well.

    As mentioned in a recent discussion in this newsgroup, I keep my original
    HD footage to archive and watch at home, then downsize to standard MPEG2
    for DVD's I send to family.

    Anthony Watson
    Mountain Software
    www.mountain-software.com/videos.htm
     
    HerHusband, May 15, 2011
    #6
  7. Brian

    Guest

    On Sat, 14 May 2011 22:07:38 -0400, Frank
    <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:28:31 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
    >in article <The limit for DVD video>,
    >Brian <> wrote:
    >
    >>Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
    >>useful.
    >>The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
    >>cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
    >>A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
    >>written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
    >>problems.

    >
    >
    >Not sure from where you got this 17 Mbps figure, Brian, but it really
    >depends upon just what you mean by "DVD disc".
    >
    >If you're referring to a DVD-Video disc that's intended for playback
    >in an ordinary television-attached DVD player, you had better keep the
    >maximum data rate under 9 Mbps, with an average in the 4 to 6 Mbps
    >range, else what you will have created is an invalid disc, compared to
    >the DVD-Video disc standard, and it will definitely *not* play back
    >correctly, if at all.
    >
    >In fact, there's probably little to no DVD-Video disc authoring
    >software out there that would allow you to create a DVD-Video disc
    >with a 17 Mbps video data rate, given that 17 Mbps is w-a-y above the
    >maximum permitted rate.
    >
    >OTOH, if you're referring to simply storing video files (in
    >arbitrarily chosen file formats and using arbitrarily chosen codecs)
    >on a DVD disc, that's a different story.
    >
    >In that situation, the ability to smoothly play back the files (on a
    >computer, not in a standalone DVD-Video disc player) is primarily
    >going to be a function of the speed of the drive (DVD or BD) in which
    >the disc has been placed. Of course, even if the drive can't keep up
    >with the data rate, you can always copy the files to your computer's
    >hard disk drive and play them back from there.


    It's unfortunate, Frank, that the semanticists of the time could not
    think of a name for the optical medium which was/is different than the
    video it was intended to contain.

    Clearly optical discs of 5, 9, and greater GB capacity can be used to
    store DVD a/v/g as well as text, photos, other formats of video and
    audio with or without embedded subtitles, etc.

    The x rates of 5 and 9 GB optical media are calculated based on the 10
    mbps specified for DVDs and figured to one hour of play time at that
    rate for the 5 (4.7) GB capacity disc. The ancient optical drives in
    the PC I'm using to write this will write to the appropriate 4.7 GB
    capacity optical media at 16x, or 1/16 hour to fill the disc; that's
    160 mbps, though they more typically averaged 8-9x in practice when I
    last used them a few years ago.

    Contemporary stand alone players are less inhibited by the DVD
    standard, now well into its second decade of existence, and will play
    most, if not all, of the presently popular a/v encodings from whatever
    medium was used at any speed required by the content. Here, we're
    using Dune HD players and have OPPO and Philips sitting on a shelf.
    These are all aimed at the under-the-set market with features formerly
    found only in desk top PCs.

    Many stand alone player owners have little or no idea of the
    capabilities of their devices, so it's a safe bet, for at least
    another decade or two, that DVD formatted optical media will play. And
    for all that time folks will still be confusing DVD as a format with
    DVD as a medium.
     
    , May 15, 2011
    #7
  8. Brian

    Brian Guest

    "" <CLicker> wrote:

    >On Sat, 14 May 2011 22:07:38 -0400, Frank
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 15 May 2011 11:28:31 +1200, in 'rec.video.desktop',
    >>in article <The limit for DVD video>,
    >>Brian <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Some of the readers in this newsgroup might find this information
    >>>useful.
    >>>The video data rate limit for a DVD disc is 17 Mbps any higher will
    >>>cause the video to stop or skip when played back.
    >>>A video that's recorded at a video data rate of 24 Mbps must be
    >>>written to a Blu-ray disc so it can be played back without any
    >>>problems.

    >>
    >>
    >>Not sure from where you got this 17 Mbps figure, Brian, but it really
    >>depends upon just what you mean by "DVD disc".
    >>
    >>If you're referring to a DVD-Video disc that's intended for playback
    >>in an ordinary television-attached DVD player, you had better keep the
    >>maximum data rate under 9 Mbps, with an average in the 4 to 6 Mbps
    >>range, else what you will have created is an invalid disc, compared to
    >>the DVD-Video disc standard, and it will definitely *not* play back
    >>correctly, if at all.
    >>
    >>In fact, there's probably little to no DVD-Video disc authoring
    >>software out there that would allow you to create a DVD-Video disc
    >>with a 17 Mbps video data rate, given that 17 Mbps is w-a-y above the
    >>maximum permitted rate.
    >>
    >>OTOH, if you're referring to simply storing video files (in
    >>arbitrarily chosen file formats and using arbitrarily chosen codecs)
    >>on a DVD disc, that's a different story.
    >>
    >>In that situation, the ability to smoothly play back the files (on a
    >>computer, not in a standalone DVD-Video disc player) is primarily
    >>going to be a function of the speed of the drive (DVD or BD) in which
    >>the disc has been placed. Of course, even if the drive can't keep up
    >>with the data rate, you can always copy the files to your computer's
    >>hard disk drive and play them back from there.

    >
    >It's unfortunate, Frank, that the semanticists of the time could not
    >think of a name for the optical medium which was/is different than the
    >video it was intended to contain.
    >
    >Clearly optical discs of 5, 9, and greater GB capacity can be used to
    >store DVD a/v/g as well as text, photos, other formats of video and
    >audio with or without embedded subtitles, etc.
    >
    >The x rates of 5 and 9 GB optical media are calculated based on the 10
    >mbps specified for DVDs and figured to one hour of play time at that
    >rate for the 5 (4.7) GB capacity disc. The ancient optical drives in
    >the PC I'm using to write this will write to the appropriate 4.7 GB
    >capacity optical media at 16x, or 1/16 hour to fill the disc; that's
    >160 mbps, though they more typically averaged 8-9x in practice when I
    >last used them a few years ago.
    >
    >Contemporary stand alone players are less inhibited by the DVD
    >standard, now well into its second decade of existence, and will play
    >most, if not all, of the presently popular a/v encodings from whatever
    >medium was used at any speed required by the content. Here, we're
    >using Dune HD players and have OPPO and Philips sitting on a shelf.
    >These are all aimed at the under-the-set market with features formerly
    >found only in desk top PCs.
    >
    >Many stand alone player owners have little or no idea of the
    >capabilities of their devices, so it's a safe bet, for at least
    >another decade or two, that DVD formatted optical media will play. And
    >for all that time folks will still be confusing DVD as a format with
    >DVD as a medium.


    Thanks HerHusband and Clicker (and others) for the useful information.
    At the momet I'm transferring the original video on to an external
    hard drive and are using my WD Media player to pay the video on TV.
    I might experiement to find out what my DVD player is capable of
    playing like you suggested.

    Regards Brian
     
    Brian, May 16, 2011
    #8
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