10D on its way - please help choose lens and more

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by This Old Man, Sep 23, 2003.

  1. This Old Man

    This Old Man Guest

    Wow - this got a bit long - sorry! Thanks in advance for reading.


    For a specific outdoor sports project I know I need a lens that will get me
    close to 300mm F4.5 or better after the 1.6x magnification and perhaps
    another battery. That's probably all I can afford for now as I've only got
    about $1k at the moment.

    Looking at the B&H Photo website the "EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 EF IS IS USM AF"
    for $414.00 looks good. But it's not a "white" lens so I'm guessing it's not
    "pro" quality (I'm sure anything under $1000 is not "pro" quality). But the
    IS for this price is attractive, yes?

    I was thinking of asking the B&H Photo guys and let them recommend.

    And I need to hit the ground running taking good pictures literally right
    out of the box. First things first: How long will I need to charge the
    included battery and how long will it last? If I need to recharge two
    batteries in about 3 hours will I need two chargers? I'm looking at buying
    the battery grip and one battery for now.

    My microdrives used with my Fuji S602Z can be read/copied directly from
    Windows explorer. Did I read here you cannot do this with Canon? Which
    software should I use and should I download an update?

    I normally use Irfanview to browse and Photoshop Elements 2 for processing.
    Any problems here?

    I see the latest firmware only helped Chinese menu and USB printing and I
    will not need the latter immediately so I guess I can skip that update for
    now, yes?

    For this first project I don't need the highest JPEG quality (photos are for
    a website) as much as I need to be able shoot fast (and some burst) and
    store a lot of pictures on the microdrives. Which setting should consider
    and why?

    For CF drives, what is the slowest I should get - up to what speed can the
    10D take advantage of the faster CF cards?

    I heard it can take a while for newbie's to get accustomed to Canon cameras.
    How can I get up to speed quickly?

    I'm just now downloading the user manual and software manual. Are there any
    good privateer websites for the 10D?


    Thanks as always for your thoughts and (usually) helpful advice! ;-)

    Here is my proposed shopping cart on B&H photo:


    Power-2000 BP-511 Lithium-Ion Battery (7.4v, 1500mAH) Replaces the Canon
    BP-511 ... More Info ACD674 POBP511Q $34.95 $34.95

    Canon BG-ED3 Battery Grip for Canon EOS D30, D60, & 10D Digital Cameras ...
    More Info
    5736A001 CABGED3 $169.95 $169.95

    Sandisk 1GB Ultra CompactFlash Card ... More Info SDCFH1000784 SAUCF1GB
    $279.95 $279.95

    Canon USA Zoom Telephoto EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 EF IS Image Stabilizer USM
    .... More Info
    2570A003 CA753004ISEF $414.95 $414.95

    Canon ET-64II Lens Hood for EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS Lens ... More Info
    2649A002 CAET642 $24.95 $24.95
    Canon

    Lens and LCD Screen Cleaning Kit ... More Info CALCK $5.95 $5.95
     
    This Old Man, Sep 23, 2003
    #1
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  2. Why not 70-200mm/f4.0 L lens? It's $539 (import) at B&H (but they seem to
    be out of stock at the moment). With 1.6x magnification, it will be
    320mm. I guess you will get hood with it for free :)

    [snip]
    I usually prefer several smaller CF cards (e.g 2x512MB or 4x256MB). If one
    fails, you still have a couple of CFs to work with. Might even come cheaper
    :)

    HTH, Dragan

    --
    Dragan Cvetkovic,

    To be or not to be is true. G. Boole No it isn't. L. E. J. Brouwer

    !!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!!
     
    Dragan Cvetkovic, Sep 23, 2003
    #2
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  3. This Old Man

    Todd Walker Guest

    Keep in mind that the 10D has a 1.6x crop factor. This means that any
    lens you use will have the effective focal length multiplied by 1.6. To
    get to 300mm, you only need a 188mm lens.
    The 75-300 is not a particularly well regarded lens. The photo quality
    is not up to the standards that the 10D is capable of.

    The 70-200 f/4L is a great lens with excellent reach for under $600.
    When I have a need for a longer lens than my 28-135, this is the lens I
    will buy.
    It will take about 3 hours to charge fully but will be around 90%
    charged after 2 hours -- enough for you to use the camera. If you are
    going to get the battery grip, you really should have 4 batteries total.
    That way you can have two batteries charged at all times and won't have
    to buy an extra charger (just charge one then the other.) I have the
    grip with my 10D and 4 batteries. If you only have two batteries, when
    they die you are out of commission for a few hours.
    No, the 10D will work the same way.
    Nope. Those programs will work fine.
    Always shoot highest JPG. You never know when you are going to take a
    shot that you will want a large print of. What if you are shooting for
    your website at low res then go out and shoot something else and forget
    to change the setting? Highest JPG always. I can fit about 100 highest
    res JPGs on a 256 meg card.
    Don't worry about card speed. The buffer in the 10D is large enough that
    card speed doesn't even factor into the picture.
    Camera in one hand, manual in the other.
    About how to operate the camera? Not that I know of.
    That's what we're here for :)
    Go to your local Wal-Mart and save $10. Since you are going to be buying
    three of them, you will save $30.
    Check. If you want a handstrap, add the Canon E1 strap for $21.95. It
    doesn't come with the grip.
    You can buy four 256 meg cards much cheaper -- around $175-200 probably.
    Look at Viking cards at Amazon and Transcend cards at Aaronix
    (www.aaronix.com)
    Already discussed that one :)
    A hood for whatever lens you buy is recommended.

    Good luck!

    --
    ________________________________
    Todd Walker
    http://twalker.d2g.com
    Canon 10D:
    http://twalker.d2g.com/canon10d
    My Digital Photography Weblog:
    http://twalker.d2g.com/dpblog.htm
    _________________________________
     
    Todd Walker, Sep 23, 2003
    #3
  4. This Old Man

    Nils Rostedt Guest

    <clip>

    Like previous posters, I'd choose the 70-200/4 L zoom if possible. However,
    I have used the 75-300 IS and I'd say it's decent value for the money up to
    about 200 mm (corresponding to 320 mm in full 35 mm format). I've taken some
    remarkably sharp shots with it at 150 mm or thereabouts. And the IS really
    helps in low light. If your goal is only to publish on the web, I'd say the
    quality of the 75-300 might be sufficient to begin with. But you will
    probably want to want to upgrade sooner or later. I now use mostly the
    100-400 mm monster, but the 75-300 IS is still my option if light weight is
    very important .
    Be aware that the USM focusing on this lens is not very fast and you lack
    the ability to manually tweak the focus, as with other USM lenses. And above
    200 mm it's not a very sharp lens. You get what you pay for.

    Regarding the EOS 10D, my suggestion is to buy one or two extra batteries.
    I'm not so keen on the battery grip myself, but many people seem to like it.
    Charging time is 90 minutes. I would imagine that to cover a sports event,
    it's better to have enough batteries available from the start than try to
    charge them during the event, when you are busy anyway with changing CF
    cards etc.

    Operational hints: Be aware the 10D has a myriad of user selectable settings
    that make it very flexible, but is a pain if you forget them so that they
    are in the wrong position for the next shot. I've been caught several times
    with wrong exposure compensation, focusing point or white balance.
    Fortunately I shoot in RAW mode so those can often be compensated
    afterwards. With JPEG, that is harder.

    Don't let the camera select the focusing point. It's not very good at
    choosing the one you'd like it to. And use the Creative Zone modes (P or Tv
    for sports) instead of the Basic Zone or idiot modes. Have fun!

    Best regards
    Nils
     
    Nils Rostedt, Sep 23, 2003
    #4
  5. This Old Man

    JPS Guest

    In message <MU_bb.23697$>,
    Yep, but it's about the only good thing about the lens. It is only
    reasonably sharp at about F8 or slower, it has no distance marks on the
    focus control; the lens threads at the front rotate with focus or zoom
    changes. It is very poor at focusing in low light. Canon admits that
    it does not communicate properly with the 10D, according to some people
    that have contacted them with problems. The lens droops, so if you have
    it set to 75mm it will be at 300mm with a little jostling if it is
    pointing down. Grabbing the focus ring inadvertently changes the zoom
    if you do anything but rotate it.

    If $400 is all one can spend for a ->300mm IS lens, it's the only game
    in town, but anyone with more money is better off skipping this lens,
    IMO.
    --
     
    JPS, Sep 23, 2003
    #5
  6. Howdy
    Wonder if someone's gonna be smart enough to bring
    out a 700MB card, so as to better match CD capacity.

    stan
     
    Stanley Krute, Sep 23, 2003
    #6
  7. This Old Man

    Nils Rostedt Guest

    Ain't going to happen, if you ask me. There is a cost advantage to have the
    capacity as a power of 2. A theoretical size would be 768 MB, but that
    doesn't fit common CD sizes any better.

    Personally, I like Canon's method of creating folders of 100 pics each.
    With RAW sizes of about 6 MB from the EOS 10D, each folder fits nicely on a
    CD.

    Nils
     
    Nils Rostedt, Sep 23, 2003
    #7
  8. Correct me if I am wrong but I think that CD capacity is measured in "true"
    MBs (i.e. 1024 * 1024 = 1048576 bytes) so that e.g. 700MB CD has the
    capacity of 734003200 bytes or 734 "harddisk" MB. On the other hand CF
    cards use the same convention as hard disk manufacturers (1MB = 1000 * 1000
    = 1000000 bytes).

    So, 768MB CF card might fit on some CDs and under certain conditions :)

    Bye, Dragan

    --
    Dragan Cvetkovic,

    To be or not to be is true. G. Boole No it isn't. L. E. J. Brouwer

    !!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!!
     
    Dragan Cvetkovic, Sep 23, 2003
    #8
  9. This Old Man

    cOsmic Guest

    Every 700MB CD I've ever used holds 700 MB as measured by Windows.
     
    cOsmic, Sep 24, 2003
    #9
  10. This Old Man

    This Old Man Guest


    There is a 640MB CF card advertised in Digital Photo Pro by www.delkin.com.

    They do not mention the advantage of being close to the maximum CD size -
    maybe their marketing people are missing the boat!
     
    This Old Man, Sep 24, 2003
    #10
  11. Yep, Windows still use 1 MB = 1024*1024 bytes. But try writing 40GB of
    data, as measured by Windows, onto your 40GB disk. It will only accept
    maximum of 40 000 000 000 bytes (instead of 42 949 672 960) minus the file
    system specific overhead.

    Bye, Dragan


    --
    Dragan Cvetkovic,

    To be or not to be is true. G. Boole No it isn't. L. E. J. Brouwer

    !!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!!
     
    Dragan Cvetkovic, Sep 24, 2003
    #11
  12. This Old Man

    Dutch Guest

    Wow - this got a bit long - sorry! Thanks in advance for reading.
    I just got my 10D so this is the experience of a high end prosumer
    user who just went professional with the equipment.

    Along with the body I bought ...
    -Canon 50mm Prime f1.8 II(80mm effective)
    -Canon 28-135 f3.5-5.6 IS USM (44-216mm effective)
    additionally a friend gave me a Quantaray 19-35mm f3.5-4.5 (30-56mm
    effective)that he hated though I can't figure out why he disliked it
    so much.
    Someday I dream of owning the Canon EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6 L IS USM
    Lens. Not any time soon though.

    In full auto you'll probably be able to take pretty good pictures
    right away, anything more than that is either going to take luck or
    lots of practice.
    About 2 hrs/ most of the day.
    Yes, or the double charger
    The 10D comes with software
    Nope, not that I know of.
    It was already installed on mine.
    Highest quality JPEG. It won't slow this camera down and you may want
    the shots for something else later.
    I've read a lot of conflicting info about this. I bought VERY fast
    cards, I don't know if it helps anything or not.
    Do a website search using "10d tips" or similar. I personally found
    the 10D extremely intimidating at first, but now I'm getting more
    comfortable and loving every minute of working with it.

    ------ Snip-------
    Kinda wish I'd ordered one of these but honestly don't have that much
    use for it.

    I've had too many problems with SanDisk lately <sigh>. I urge you to
    consider Lexar! I bought two 256mb cards then went back after a full
    I understand it's a good lens. IS is awesome!
    Didn't buy a hood for my 28-135. Shot a number of pictures where
    stray sun "fogged" the image. Went back and bought a lens hood.
    'nuff said.

    It's just a dream...now go back to sleep!

    Dutch
     
    Dutch, Sep 24, 2003
    #12
  13. This Old Man

    EarGuy Guest

    Wish you were more specific about what you're shooting and the venue (NCAA
    stadium, or high school field?).
    I've had this lens for about 2 years, I've had a 10D body for about 3 weeks
    (shot 2 football games with it so far). I'm shooting municipal league kids'
    games at night under the poor lighting you'd expect on these public fields.
    With that lens, I have to set my speed to 3200 and shoot at 1/90 or
    1/125sec, with the lens wide open (f/5.6). Compared to the other parents
    with P+S cameras, The magnification and "film speed" blows them away.
    However, the images are grainy/noisy, and though the IS lets me shoot as low
    as 1/90sec, it allows a lot of subject movement blur.

    I've been fortunate enough to strike up a friendly e-mail conversation with
    a pro whose work regularly apprears in ESPN magazine and has also been in
    Sports Illustrated several times. He's kept in mind that I'm really just a
    dad who wants good pics of his kids, and I'm not making a living at it like
    he is. His suggestion to me was to keep the lens I have for daytime work and
    just use a shorter (cheaper) lens with 4.0 at these night games. He thinks
    I should just accept that I won't get every shot I want and not get crazy
    buying expensive pro glass for such applications as mine.

    While several have suggested a 70-200 f/4 lens, You can dramatically
    increase the quality of your pictures and make a leap in lens speed with the
    Canon prime 200mm f2.8 for $630.00. If you're going to get a zoom and shoot
    it at full length most of the time, I'd really suggest you look into it. I
    don't know, but I would guess that the Tonika 80-200 would give you no
    poorer images than the 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 EF IS, and its aperature is 2.8 at
    $600.00. Or if you can go a little over budget you can get a Canon 70-200
    2.8 L for $1060.00.

    FYI, the battery grip holds two batteries, so you'll need to by a second one
    in addition to the one that comes with the body. A dual-charger is
    available, as far as I know. I had the battery grip on my Elan 7e film body
    and liked it, but I'm happy using my body with one battery and having a
    fully charged spare battery in my bag. In the two games I've shot, I've
    taken over 100 images, used the LCD screen a lot (a real battery drainer),
    but I haven't had to replace the battery in the field yet.

    I bought my camera new and it had the latest firmware already installed.

    While I agree with the earlier poster who advised shooting high quality
    "because ya never know", for a web page medium fine should be okay.
    Well, I had the 7e film body before the 10D, and I took to it quickly.
    There's plenty more to learn, but I was out of the gate quickly.
    I found this one interesting, for pro sports shooters:

    http://www.siphoto.com/?canon10D.inc

    Lastly, I'd suggest getting some of those clear peel-and-stick screen covers
    to protect your LCD from scratches. They're cheap, and, well...ya never
    know.

    I'll post a couple of my shots to alt.binaries.photo.digital so you can see.
    Look for the header "Football shots with a 10D"

    Let me know what you do, and how you end up.
     
    EarGuy, Sep 24, 2003
    #13
  14. This Old Man

    Ken Alverson Guest

    CF megabytes are "real" megabytes, not hard drive megabytes. 768 MB CF cards
    are 2^29+2^28 bytes large.

    Ken
     
    Ken Alverson, Sep 24, 2003
    #14
  15. Is it so? Good to know, thanks for the correction Ken.

    Bye, Dragan

    --
    Dragan Cvetkovic,

    To be or not to be is true. G. Boole No it isn't. L. E. J. Brouwer

    !!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!!
     
    Dragan Cvetkovic, Sep 24, 2003
    #15
  16. This Old Man

    Alan Guest


    That does not match my experience. My experience is that CF memory does not
    actually match the claimed size.

    Looking at the console/dmesg output from a FreeBSD system mounting the
    xD card that came with my 5050, and the Lexar 16x "High-Speed Series" CF
    card with Write Acceleration Technology.

    Note that the 32 Mb xD card has 32,768,000 bytes of storage, or 31.25 * 2^20 bytes.

    The Lexar "256 MB" CF card has 257949696 bytes of storage, or 246 * 2^20 bytes.


    Alan


    console output for the curious:

    umass0: OLYMPUS C5050Z , rev 1.10/1.00, addr 2
    da0 at umass-sim0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
    da0: <OLYMPUS C5050Z 1.00> Removable Direct Access SCSI-2 device
    da0: 650KB/s transfers
    da0: 31MB (64000 512 byte sectors: 64H 32S/T 31C)
    umass0: at uhub0 port 1 (addr 2) disconnected
    (da0:umass-sim0:0:0:0): lost device
    (da0:umass-sim0:0:0:0): removing device entry
    umass0: detached


    umass0: OLYMPUS C5050Z , rev 1.10/1.00, addr 2
    da0 at umass-sim0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
    da0: <OLYMPUS C5050Z 1.00> Removable Direct Access SCSI-2 device
    da0: 650KB/s transfers
    da0: 246MB (503808 512 byte sectors: 64H 32S/T 246C)
    umass0: at uhub0 port 1 (addr 2) disconnected
    (da0:umass-sim0:0:0:0): lost device
    (da0:umass-sim0:0:0:0): removing device entry
    umass0: detached



    p.s.: It is sort of a pity that the camera won't mount both cards
    at once, so one connect could download everything.
     
    Alan, Oct 16, 2003
    #16
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