10d pricing from Cenre.Net.Au

Discussion in 'Australia Photography' started by Don, Jul 16, 2003.

  1. Don

    Don Guest

    Enquired re the price of a 10d @ $2699. This is the response for those who
    are interested:-

    "The digital cameras marked "International Version" are sourced through our
    partner,"Global Network Services (L) Ltd" and technically sold by them.
    These cameras are identical to the local cameras that come through the
    official channels.

    Warranty on these cameras is a 12 month Australian replacement warranty that
    is administered by us (centre.net.au). To acheive this we are allocated a
    buffer stock so that in the unlikely event (currently less than %2) of a
    fault the camera is replaced by return courier.

    The price shown is the total cost to you, plus shipping, there are no other
    costs to be incurred unless you wish to purchase other items/accessories.

    The 12 month replacement warranty is included in the low price to inspire
    buyer confidence in buying a camera that does not come through the official
    channels.

    We have been operating as an IT company for over 14 years, and the
    opportunity to move into the Digital Photography field presented itself. As
    a newcomer in this field we are trying to give better service and prices
    than those offered through the traditional Channel. It was on this basis
    that we negotiated the arrangement with GNS.

    Since GNS is an offshore company it does not charge the GST, (although GST
    is paid by GNS when the cameras arrive in Australia) so you are not supplied
    with a "TAX INVOICE" per se. The price that you end up paying is less than
    would be paid if you were to reclaim the GST on the local product.

    I hope this answers all your questions, and we look forward to supplying you
    with an excellent product and service.

    A final note, due to the high demand, not all models are in stock at all
    times, this being the case I recommend that you contact us on the number
    below or by email to check the stock status of the model that you require."

    Seems like a straight deal. Any comments?
     
    Don, Jul 16, 2003
    #1
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  2. Don

    Scott Howard Guest

    This bit simply doesn't make sense. They pay GST but they don't charge it?
    Regardless of where the camera comes from and who sells it, GST _is_
    payable on something of this value, regardless of who brings it into the
    country or how.

    Sounds a little fishy to me...

    Scott.
     
    Scott Howard, Jul 16, 2003
    #2
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  3. No, it just means you don't understand GST.

    You are only required to issue Tax invoices if you are registered for GST so
    you can claim input taxes to offset against GST collected. If you are not
    registered for GST, you pay GST just like the rest of us.

    As a GST registered business you pay the DIFFERENCE between what you collect
    and what you pay. The rest of us just suck it up and pay 10%.

    But it is obvious he is a grey marketer probably bring them in from the USof
    A and paying the GST and still undercutting the local market. Love to hear
    the warranty plan!!
     
    David in Perth, Jul 16, 2003
    #3
  4. Don

    Miro Guest

    If your annual turnover is higher than $50,000 you must register an ABN.
     
    Miro, Jul 16, 2003
    #4
  5. Don

    Derek Guest

    Miro is correct, and they do have an ABN, and charge GST all nearly all
    other items they sell.

    I'm sure the Tax office wouldn't view the transaction as occurring offshore,
    when they hold an ABN, charge you in AUD and take your money in Melbourne
    Australia. Where it is shipped from is regardless, the "sale" per se is
    occurring on Australian territories as I understand the tax laws.
     
    Derek, Jul 17, 2003
    #5
  6. Don

    Miro Guest

    What good is a Tax Invoice without an ABN ?
     
    Miro, Jul 17, 2003
    #6
  7. Don

    woodsie Guest


    your getting your abn and gst mixed up.

    if a biz only has an abn, then they subit invoices without the word 'Tax'
    on them.
     
    woodsie, Jul 17, 2003
    #7
  8. Don

    max morrison Guest

    OK, according to the ATO website --

    "You must register for GST if:
    - you are an entity carrying on an enterprise; and
    - your annual turnover is equal to or greater than the turnover threshold of
    $50 000 ($100 000 for non-profit organisations)."

    and --

    "To be part of the GST system, you must be registered for GST. Your GST
    registration number is usually your ABN. If you aren't registered for GST
    you can't include GST in the price of sales that you make and you can't
    claim input tax credits."

    http://www.taxreform.ato.gov.au/content.asp?doc=/content/20724.htm&page=1&from=TR/BS


    mm
     
    max morrison, Jul 17, 2003
    #8
  9. Don

    Miro Guest


    If it isnt a Tax Invoice then I have to withold a portion of the payment and
    send it to Costello
     
    Miro, Jul 17, 2003
    #9
  10. Don

    woodsie Guest


    incorrect again!
     
    woodsie, Jul 17, 2003
    #10
  11. Don

    weary Guest

    Yes, and as the GST is being paid on importation they are selling the
    grey market stuff as 'virtual' second hand goods. Just the same as if
    you or I imported a camera, paid the GST and sold it via this
    newsgroup. It is second hand as far as the tax department is concerned
    and they are not interested in getting GST again on the sale. The
    warranty is there to assuage concerns about it being grey market.
     
    weary, Jul 17, 2003
    #11
  12. Don

    Tony Rae Guest

    I've not spent those kind of dollars at on online store but I'd
    probably feel comfortable buying a 10D from Cenre.Net.Au. They have
    been around a long time and I've been regularly checking their online
    store for at least 2 years now. I'm sure that if they were up to any
    funny business they wouldn't still be around.
     
    Tony Rae, Jul 17, 2003
    #12
  13. Don

    ChrisMc Guest

    So it's only me that can't find their website ?
     
    ChrisMc, Jul 18, 2003
    #13
  14. Don

    Tony Rae Guest

    Tony Rae, Jul 18, 2003
    #14
  15. Don

    Jimmy Chong Guest

    Issue : Can the importers pay GST but don't charge it?
    Answer : Yes, if the importer has an ABN but not GST-registered.
    Reason : Australian Customs issue a tax invoice to these guys ("importers")
    the GST for the imported camera. The importers have to pay the GST to
    Customs in order to pick up the camera. eg. camera costs + shipping =
    AUD$1000. Therefore GST is $100. Importers pay Customs $100.

    But can the importers charge customers GST when they sell the camera eg.
    $2000 (GST-exclusive) ? Well, the answer depends on whether they have :

    i) an ABN and GST registered (importer can claim input tax, $100 on
    acquisition of camera and can charge $200 GST on the sale when completing
    their BAS return. Their profit margin is $2000 - $1000 = $1000)
    ii) an ABN only (importer can issue tax invoices, but CANNOT charge GST on
    the sale. Nor can they claim any input tax. But doing this (ie. not
    registering for GST) is stupid because your profit margin gets squeezed by
    $100 because you can't claim input tax. $2000 - $1100 = $900)
    iii) no ABN (the importer is carrying on an illegal business)

    If you want to issue a TAX INVOICE, you must have an ABN number. If you want
    to charge customers GST in your TAX INVOICE then you need an ABN number AND
    be GST-registered as well. If you don't have an ABN number, then you can't
    issue TAX INVOICES and you can't charge GST. If you did that (operating a
    business without an ABN), by law, customers can pay you 51.5% of the total
    price for the camera and "withhold" the other 48.5% for the ATO. Eg camera
    price is $2000, a customer pays 51.5% of the $2000 = $1030 for the camera.
    And the customer "withholds" $970 on behalf of the ATO. That $970 will be
    remitted to the ATO when customer complete their BAS return.

    This seriously stuff up the importer's cash flow is because they are getting
    $1030 for their $2000 camera. Chances are the business won't survive for
    long because you need cash to make more cash...

    The only way the importers can get back the $930 is WHEN they complete their
    TAX RETURN. Depending on their taxable income.they can claim back "some" of
    the "ABN Withholding Tax".

    Jimmy
     
    Jimmy Chong, Jul 19, 2003
    #15
  16. Don

    Trevor S Guest

    and while technically correct this is laughable... they get your money
    _before_ you get the camera, so, using your example, you would rebate the
    $970 to the ATO how ?


    --
    Trevor S


    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    -Albert Einstein
     
    Trevor S, Jul 20, 2003
    #16
  17. Don

    Jimmy Chong Guest

    Trevor
    By "they get your money", I assume "they" refers to the ATO. Well, the ATO
    doesn't get your money first before you get the camera. According to this
    ATO link,

    http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/content.asp?doc=/content/25381.htm

    the importer has to give you the camera when you pay them $1030 AND give
    them (the importer) a copy of "PAYG payment summary where an ABN is not
    quoted " form where you write down the withholding amount of $970. The
    importer will need this payment summary to reclaim the withheld amount when
    they lodge their income tax return after the end of the income year. When
    you (the customer) complete your BAS, you need to fill out label W4 with the
    figure of $970. That $970 plus whatever your GST and tax obligations would
    be paid to ATO for the relevant BAS period (quarterly or monthly).

    The tricky part is that you (the customer) need to be CARRYING ON AN
    ENTERPRISE / BUSINESS (and of course you must have an ABN to do business) in
    order to be able to issue a PAYG payment summary where an ABN is not quoted
    form. If you're not buying the camera for business purposes, then you can't
    withhold 48.5% ie $970 and you have to pay the importer the $2,000.

    In other words, if you're an INDIVIDUAL and this camera is for private use,
    then you can not withhold anything from the importer. You pay them the full
    GST-exclusive amount of $2,000 (this is assuming the importer has no ABN and
    not registered for GST). The TAXATION ADMINISTRATION ACT 1953 Div 12-190(4)a
    specifies that :

    The payer need NOT WITHHOLD an amount under this section if:


    (a) the payment is made OTHERWISE THAN in the course or furtherance of
    an enterprise carried on in Australia by the payer;

    Check out this ATO link for the detailed legislation

    http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?basic=+abn not quoted&&docid=PAC/1
    9530001/Sch1-12-190

    Jimmy
     
    Jimmy Chong, Jul 20, 2003
    #17
  18. Don

    Trevor S Guest

    No "they", the importers.. you have to fork over the TOTAL amount to them
    or they will not give you the camera...

    --
    Trevor S


    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    -Albert Einstein
     
    Trevor S, Jul 21, 2003
    #18
  19. Don

    Jimmy Chong Guest

    They(the importer) have to if you pay them $970 AND give them a "PAYG
    payment summary where an ABN is not
    quoted" form $1030. It's the GST legislation..

    Check this link...
    http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/content.asp?doc=/content/25381.htm

    Section 12-190 of Schedule 1 to the Taxation Administration Act 1953

    12-190 Recipient does not quote «ABN»

    (1) An entity (the " payer ") must withhold an amount from a payment it
    makes to another entity if:

    (a)
    the payment is for a *supply that the other entity has made, or proposes
    to make, to the payer in the course or furtherance of an *enterprise
    *carried on in Australia by the other entity; and
    (b)
    none of the exceptions in this section applies.
    If you fail to withhold from the payment, you can be held liable for the
    amount you did not withhold. You may also be prosecuted. Costello will come
    to your house and stick the camera up your @rse.

    If you're carrying on an enterprise, then you MUST withhold that $1030.
    Otherwise you'll be prosecuted.

    If you're not carrying on an enterprise, then you can't withhold. Pay the
    full $2000 to get the camera.

    For further clarification read TAXATION RULING 2001/D9

    Jimmy
     
    Jimmy Chong, Jul 21, 2003
    #19
  20. Don

    Trevor S Guest

    :) You won't get your camera....


    --
    Trevor S


    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    -Albert Einstein
     
    Trevor S, Jul 22, 2003
    #20
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