10x Zoom Picture Quality Question Further

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by LitePix, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. LitePix

    LitePix Guest

    LitePix, Oct 21, 2004
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  2. LitePix

    Ed Ruf Guest

    Neither photo contains the exif info, so we don't have the camera settings
    used to take the shots. What size and image quality and sharpening
    settings are you using? 01 looks over sharpened as well as both possibly
    showing effects of motion blur. What shutter speed where these taken at? As
    a ball park rule you want to be around the reciprocal of the equiv. 35mm
    focal length to have shutter speeds high enough to eliminate motion blur as
    a start. With practice it is possible to go slower.
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    Ed Ruf, Oct 21, 2004
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  3. Nope. Those are pretty poor. They look like they've been upsampled.

    Did you use "digital zoom" on those? If so, don't. Digital zoom doesn't
    work. Only use optical zoom.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Oct 21, 2004
  4. LitePix

    LitePix Guest

    Ahh, so thats the reason, many thanks.

    It makes me wonder then why have digital zoom in the first place?

    LitePix, Oct 21, 2004
  5. You can simulate digital zoom by cropping later, but some people prefer to
    do the cropping in the camera. Seeing what you are doing when you are doing
    it isn't a bad thing. If you are targetting either the web or 4x6 prints,
    the quality will still be adequate. But if you need the full quality the
    camera can deliver, it's a bad idea. (You could look into teleconverters if
    you need more reach than the optical zoom the camera comes with.)

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Oct 21, 2004
  6. LitePix

    Owamanga Guest

    Pure and utter marketing - a feature that cost you money for them to
    develop, wastes valuable program space, and is, completely worthless.

    In future, if you don't do this already, whenever you meet someone who
    says they are in marketing, your instant reaction should be to give
    them a hard slap and walk away. 8 out of 10 times they won't even try
    and hit you back.
    Owamanga, Oct 21, 2004
  7. No. Under some circumstances it can be useful, if used carefully.

    I compared the results on a Nikon 990 using the Basic JPEG compression
    with two images taken at the same time, one with 2:1 digital zoom, and one
    enlarged from the centre of a non-zoomed picture. The digital zoom
    picture was just noticeably better than the interpolated image.

    This is a result specific to this camera, and might be due to the JPEG
    compression being less lossy on the digitally zoomed image (both images
    were 2048 x 1536 pixels). I also got the impression that the focus worked
    a little better with the 2:1 digital zoom in use.

    I would recommend:

    - checking this out on your own camera

    - only using 2:1 digital zoom (not odd ratios)

    - only using digital zoom where there is no sensible alternative

    It is /not/ "pure and utter marketing", but the times when it helps you
    are very limited, and it is /not/ a substitute for optical zoom.

    David J Taylor, Oct 21, 2004
  8. LitePix

    Owamanga Guest

    I was referring to a 10x zoom (mentioned in the subject), not a 2x
    zoom which is about the maximum any sane person could live with.

    So, the marketing people still deserve a slap.

    Given your tests, I can easily believe that a pre-zoomed image prior
    to being naffed-up with JPEG looks better than one that's naffed-up
    first and then zoomed. Same logic that if you try a contact-print of a
    35mm negative and then try enlarging from the contact print - it's
    going to look rough.

    I don't have experience of this feature on a Digicam - my DSLR doesn't
    do it but I do have it on a Panasonic DV and it's unusable from 2x
    onwards - so I disabled it in the menu. For the DV, beyond 8x optical
    zoom on anything that weighs less than a cup of coffee is enough to
    bring out serious camera shake.

    My problem with the, albeit accurate, term 'Digital Zoom' is that it
    leads some consumers into believing that the fact it's 'Digital' is
    somehow superior to other methods, when the inverse is true.
    Owamanga, Oct 21, 2004
  9. Owamanga wrote:
    Oh, yes, if it were 10X digital - that's way too much.

    Even with optical zoom, we are looking for Image Stabilisation as a
    highly-desirable feature in our next camera - Canon S1 IS, Nikon 8800 and
    Panasonic FZ20 are on the list....
    That's a very good point - digital = accurate and modern - digital zoom
    must be better than the old analog zoom. Eek!

    David J Taylor, Oct 21, 2004
  10. LitePix

    Ed Ruf Guest

    But the 10X in the case of the Z1 is optical zoom only.
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990 and 5700 at
    Ed Ruf, Oct 21, 2004
  11. LitePix

    Owamanga Guest

    Well he should toss it in the bin then, those shots are appalling for
    an optical zoom. I've seen better from a camera phone.
    Owamanga, Oct 21, 2004
  12. LitePix

    Owamanga Guest

    They should have called it 'Blurry zoom' or 'Artifact zoom' or 'Hubble
    zoom' or '4 pints too many zoom' or 'Grasping at straws zoom' or 'What
    the hell is that anyway? zoom' to reflect the methodology a little
    better. The name 'Digital Zoom' just doesn't suit it well.
    Owamanga, Oct 21, 2004
  13. LitePix

    Larry Guest

    What a WONDERFULL idea!

    "The League Of Marketeer Slappers"

    I'll join, I'll join.... What are the dues????
    Do we neet to have a meeting, or can I go out and slap a
    marketer tonight.

    Most importantly, will we have a fund for BAIL?????

    It would be WORTH a night in jail to slap the person who
    came up with "digital-zoom", or the guy that decided that
    an SD9 is 10.3mp. (maybe two nights for him)
    Larry, Oct 22, 2004
  14. LitePix

    Suz Guest

    But the bottom line -- in my opinion -- is that digital zoom is
    Is there a such thing as a lens that is optical zoom? (Please keep in mind
    that I am new to all of this! LOL)
    Suz, Oct 31, 2004
  15. LitePix

    Phil Wheeler Guest

    Absolutely. There are several cameras with 10x optical zoom, including
    the Canon S1 IS.

    Phil Wheeler, Nov 1, 2004
  16. The Panasonic cameras listed have 12X optical zoom
    Robert Morrisette, Nov 1, 2004
  17. LitePix

    Jim Vatunz Guest

    As does the Konica-Minolta Z3
    Jim Vatunz, Nov 1, 2004
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