16mm reel adaptor

Discussion in 'Professional Video Production' started by Joseph Brown, Sep 2, 2003.

  1. Joseph Brown

    Joseph Brown Guest

    I would like to know if there's any adaptor available to play a reel that
    has a *large* center hole into a regular 16mm projector?

    an example of a reel that I'm talking about is found here:
    http://www86.pair.com/avschool/images/16mm.jpg

    I got a ton of these Kodak Ektachrome 7242 Black&White 16mm news reels from
    a former Television producer. Problem is that these reels don't fit on my
    Bell & Howell 2592 projector. The opening is way too large. Any help as what
    this "large to small" adaptor is called will be appreciated. I even
    searched eBay for "16mm adaptor"; no sesults.

    Anyway, why they made these non-standard reels, and what machine was
    originally used to project them?
     
    Joseph Brown, Sep 2, 2003
    #1
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  2. Um, that's a standard 16mm core. Any film supply house will have a "split
    reel" which will suit your purposes. I'd advise winding the film off onto
    standard-diameter hubs, though, since the small diameter of the core
    (compared to that of a regular reel) means that the sprocket holes can be
    torn near the end of the reel if the projector's back-tension is set too
    high.
     
    Gary G. Taylor, Sep 2, 2003
    #2
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  3. Joseph Brown

    David McCall Guest

    They really aren't non-standard at all. Other than the 100' spools used
    in relatively small 16mm cameras, these "cores" are pretty standard
    when working with 16mm or 35mm film. The film pretty much stays
    on these cores through the whole process. from the camera to the print.
    Films don't get onto reels until they go into distribution.

    What you need is a "split reel" (IIRC). The reel looks a lot like you
    would expect a reel to look, but you can split the reel into 2 pieces
    by rotating the flanges in oposite directions. Flanges go on the cores
    when the film needs to be shown on a projector, or edited on a bench
    or upright Movieola, but the rest of the time it is stored horizontally
    on cores. It's a more efficient way to deal with large amounts of film.

    David
     
    David McCall, Sep 2, 2003
    #3
  4. Joseph Brown

    Joseph Brown Guest

    What you need is a "split reel" (IIRC). The reel looks a lot like you
    OK, I got the idea how it works. Thanks!
    I found some on eBay.

    I also found these "adaptors" on eBay
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2948880013&category=4690
    <G!> They are expensive at $45!!!!

    I'll go the split-reel way. Thanks!
     
    Joseph Brown, Sep 2, 2003
    #4
  5. Joseph Brown

    David McCall Guest

    These are used to adapt a flatbed editor to hold the cores on the tables.
    A flatbed is lika a desk with pairs of turntables. Each pair holds one strip
    of film, or a sound track. There are visual and audio heads that the film
    and audio run through to allow the editor to seee and hear what he is
    working from. It is possible to roll multiple streams at the same time
    in perfect synchronization. there will also be a splicer for sticking the
    pieces of film together.
    You only need one pair
     
    David McCall, Sep 2, 2003
    #5
  6. Joseph Brown

    Joseph Brown Guest

    Thanks David for your valuable info.
    Is this split reel good for my purspose?:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2948553185

    Also, since we're on the subject of 16mm film; some reels I have have
    combined filmstrips attached together with regular "scotch tape" Problem is
    that when it goes trough the projector gate, the film jams in it.

    Is there any device that will allow me to precisely "re-splice" the film
    seemlessly. I mean seemlessly by combining the filmstrips together in such
    manner as the sprocket holes be correcly spaced. This way it won't jam in
    the gate.

    Is it called a film splicer/combiner? I'll search eBay if I can find any.
    Are there any splicers good for both 8mm/s8mm/16mm ?

    Best,

    JB
     
    Joseph Brown, Sep 2, 2003
    #6
  7. Joseph Brown

    Joseph Brown Guest

    Is it called a film splicer/combiner? I'll search eBay if I can find any.
    Since my last post above, I made some reasearch. On eBay I found several
    brands of splicers. Is the Kodak Presstape Universal Splicer good? I also
    found that there are 2 types of splices: Cement and the other are Tape. I
    read that cement is better, smoother, but its messy and requires a bit of
    practice to get it right. On the other hand, tape splices are quick and
    easy, but there's a possibility of jamming.

    I'm thinking of trying both and see which one I'll adopt. Is the Kodak
    Presstape Universal Spicer also suitable for Cement splices?
     
    Joseph Brown, Sep 2, 2003
    #7
  8. Joseph Brown

    David McCall Guest

    That looks like the right thing, except that 2000' is apretty big reel.
    You may not need such a large reel. A heavier reel will put more
    load on the film and projector. I haven't worked around film for
    decades, but the picture you showed looks like 400' spool to me.
    Film is sometimes spliced with a tape that looks just like scotch tape
    except that it has sprocket holes in it (I believe I have seen a splicer
    that punched the holes, as well as pre-punched tape. The sprokets
    should be lined up in either case. I have also seen people juas tack
    a bunch of clips together just to get them onto a spool for storrage.
    These will likely overlap at the joints, and would certainly jam. Even
    good splices, made with tape, colud fail with age.
    The best would be a "hot splicer". Ith is a heavy device with precision
    clamps to hold the film, and has a built in scraper to remove a small
    section ov the emulsion from one side of the overlaping splice. Acetone
    is painted on to the area to be joined and the 2 pieces are held tightly
    together for a few seconds to allow the acetone to partially disolve the
    backing of the two pieces. A hot splicer will speed up this process a little,
    and make a more reliable splice. there are also cold splicers that will do
    the job, but slower.
    I'm not sure. I have seen combinations, but it was too long ago to
    remember what combination it was. I think all three of the ones you
    mention have slightly different sprocket hole sizes, so there would
    have to be more than one row, or you would have to be able to
    change out the sprockets on the splicer.
    The folks in the more film oriented groups will probably be able
    to help you better. I am from rec.video.production.
     
    David McCall, Sep 2, 2003
    #8
  9. Joseph Brown

    Ken Layton Guest

    Yup, you need a 16mm "Split Reel". All film editing supply companies
    sell them. Try J&R Film/Moviola at (323)467-3107 in Hollywood, Calif.
     
    Ken Layton, Sep 2, 2003
    #9
  10. Joseph Brown

    David McCall Guest

    Not sure. I think the Presstape splicer is only for the tape. The thing
    I would be wary of would be old tape. The tape splices can hold up in
    a well tuned projector, but they will likely fall apart if the tape is old, or
    the projector is badly maintained. I think the solvent can go bad as well,
    so you should locate fresh materials. There would be nothing wrong with
    using a 40 year old splicer, if it wasn't badly worn, properly aligned, and
    had a good sharp scraper. If anything is out of alignment, including your
    skills, the splice will likely fail. It is important to just remove the emulsion,
    and not dig into the base too much, the strokes need to be smoothes
    and even.

    If you aren't going to do enough splices to get good at it, you might be
    better off going with tape. You should get a second opinion from the
    film folks though.

    What you have learned sounds correct to me.

    David
     
    David McCall, Sep 2, 2003
    #10
  11. Joseph Brown

    Joseph Brown Guest

    I have also seen people juas tack
    You tell me!!! Some 16mm reels that this retired TV procucer gave me contain
    splices cut and joined at random with matte scotch tape that you buy at a
    drug store. Yesterday 3 films jammed at the joints. One other phenomenon,
    when the film didn't jam past the bad joint, the picture would start to
    freak and jump. The same kind that you see when your TV has lost it's
    Vertical Sync. But whorst! The projector was making lots of noise. There's
    a knob to turn to correct for that, but the jumping was so severe that I had
    to stop the projector, rewind a bit and play it again. All this was
    triggered by the bad splice. Lucky it didn't jam. What this could be?

    Thanks for the info. Now I think I'm nearing the end of the steep film
    learning curve. for now, I'll purchase a 800ft split-reel and a Kodak
    Presstape splicer. I'll take it from there and in the future I'll look
    forward for more advanced stuff; such as the Hot Spicer.

    Best,

    JB
     
    Joseph Brown, Sep 2, 2003
    #11
  12. Joseph Brown

    Alan Lloyd Guest

    Presstape, as you'd mentioned in your other post. Not good for
    picture rolls. Usable in the absence of anything else.
    Then there was also the "perfofix" machine - barely recall that one.
    Not to mention film will shrink with age, and old film has usually
    been in some "interesting" storage conditions.
    There are. It also bears mentioning that if the priginal poster
    envouters a print made on Estar base print stock, the old
    Meier-Hancock is not going to be of much use. Presstapes, guillotine,
    or sonic then.
    Regular 8mm, sometimes sold as Dual 8 on 16mm stock, coiuld be spliced
    on a 16mm splicer, and simply had twice the perforations of 16mm. It
    was fllipped in camera and then slit at the lab after processing.
    Super 8 used an entirely different perforation scheme.
     
    Alan Lloyd, Sep 2, 2003
    #12
  13. Joseph Brown

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    Not really. It makes a U-shaped splice that is very strong, but extremely
    visible on screen.
    I tend to like cement on all acetate stocks, but if you are using polyester,
    you will need to use tape. The Gillotine-type perforating splicers are
    okay if you are using tape. If you are using cement, get a hot splicer and
    do not buy any of the unheated ones.
    No.
    --scott
     
    Scott Dorsey, Sep 2, 2003
    #13
  14. Joseph Brown

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    You lost one of the loops on the projector. If this happens, shut it down
    immediately because it is damaging film.
    --scott
     
    Scott Dorsey, Sep 2, 2003
    #14
  15. Joseph Brown

    David McCall Guest

    I would be afraid of running that through a projector. You might want to
    buy, or rent, a pair of manual rewinds so you can go through the rolls
    and find the spots where it is spliced together. If they aren't real splices,
    then what you are likely looking at is clips that have been "clipped" from
    the master and hung in bins. At some point he just stuck them all
    together on some cores for storage.

    As long as you have to go through it all anyway, perhaps you should
    rent a viewer and reduce the volume of stuff you need to have transferred.

    At any rate, it the stuff is just tacked together, then you should not
    put it in a projector, until the clips have been properly joined. For the
    sake of the film and the projector.

    I'll bet most "video people" today have never seen clips hanging in bins,
    and have no idea what that means. A 'bin" is similar to a rolling laundry
    hamper but with a rack mounted over the top that is full of small pins
    sticking out on both sides. The film equivalent of "capturing is to go
    through the raw footage to "clip" out the good stuff and hang it in the
    bins (the tails just sit in the bottom of the bin). The bad stuff is either
    discarded or just wound on spools much as you see the footage you
    have. Longer clips would be wound on individual cores and labeled.

    David
     
    David McCall, Sep 2, 2003
    #15
  16. Joseph Brown

    J. Theakston Guest

    J. Theakston, Sep 2, 2003
    #16
  17. Joseph Brown

    ** Guest

    Joseph Brown wrote in message ...
    The item you referenced is a "film core". Generally, film in lengths larger
    than 200ft. come from the factory on these cores which are then placed
    in film "magazines" and attached to a camera and exposed.
    When the film is run thru the camera, it is wound onto another core. When
    all the film is exposed, it is removed from the film magazine and sent to a
    film lab for processing (still on the cores).
    When the lab returns the film to the customer, it is still on these cores.
    The customer, in order to view the film (either on a projector OR
    editor/viewer)
    needs to place the film (still on the core) on a "split reel". This reel has
    the necessary sized hole for the projector or rewinds or what have you.
    Basically, it is a film reel which comes apart and has a larger center piece
    which the film core fits over. You screw the two halves back together and
    use it as you would a "regular" reel.
    There are plenty of 16mm (and 35mm) split reels on eBay in various sizes.

    Any other questions, contact me off list.

    Art Mack
    (Producer/Camera Operator)
     
    **, Sep 4, 2003
    #17
  18. Joseph Brown

    Martin Hart Guest

    I have a 70mm split reel. I picked it up on eBay for a couple of bucks.
    The seller described it as a double 35mm reel and figured it must be used
    in drive-ins. Logic is sometimes in short supply.

    Marty
     
    Martin Hart, Sep 4, 2003
    #18
  19. Joseph Brown

    normlehf Guest

    Logic is rare and quite costly. It is best to be sparing in its use.

    Norm Lehfeldt
     
    normlehf, Sep 4, 2003
    #19
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