20D Battery Grip and AA's

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by Scott Evans, Dec 14, 2004.

  1. Scott Evans

    Scott Evans Guest

    Just got my new 20D with battery grip. But I have quickly discovered that I
    can only get one shot out of a fresh set of alkalines installed in battery
    grip and then upon the next shutter release...I get a blank display and dead
    battery indicator flashing. I called Canon Canada...and their phone rep told
    me that the tech behind said I need to use high milliamp output batteries.
    Obviously referring to rechargeable NiMH. But why do they claim it will run
    for about 80 shots on regular alkalines??? I find this VERY disappointing
    for one big reason I got the grip is to have that "limp home" ability with
    widely available alkalines!
    Anyone else having this problem?
     
    Scott Evans, Dec 14, 2004
    #1
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  2. Scott Evans

    Ryadia Guest

    Doesn't sound right to me.
    I got 50 or so shots from a set of 2 year old (new) batteries from mine.
    Maybe your lens is a high drain affair?
     
    Ryadia, Dec 14, 2004
    #2
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  3. Scott Evans

    Scott Evans Guest

    Well I tried a 2 year old set of Duracell ProCells and a newer set of
    Memorex alkalines all with same results.
    Now...I did peform the firmware update to 1.1.0 with AA installed, but my
    assumption there was all will be fine as long as camera has uninterrupted
    power during the upgrade. So I do NOT think that is anything to do with the
    issue. As far as the lens...I have the 17-85 IS but even with auto focus and
    stabilization turned off...still same result. VERY frustrating! Anyone else?
     
    Scott Evans, Dec 14, 2004
    #3
  4. Scott Evans

    ZONED! Guest

    It is a problem common to many if not all BG-E2s Canon is dealing with
    it soon.
     
    ZONED!, Dec 16, 2004
    #4
  5. Scott Evans

    ZONED! Guest

    It is a problem common to many if not all BG-E2s Canon is dealing with
    it soon.
     
    ZONED!, Dec 16, 2004
    #5
  6. Scott Evans

    Scott Evans Guest

    Where does this come from? Is this your opinion or based upon information
    read elsewhere? Your own experience? Huh?
     
    Scott Evans, Dec 16, 2004
    #6
  7. Don't use Alkaline batteries !

    Get AA Lithium.

    Dave




    | Just got my new 20D with battery grip. But I have quickly discovered that I
    | can only get one shot out of a fresh set of alkalines installed in battery
    | grip and then upon the next shutter release...I get a blank display and dead
    | battery indicator flashing. I called Canon Canada...and their phone rep told
    | me that the tech behind said I need to use high milliamp output batteries.
    | Obviously referring to rechargeable NiMH. But why do they claim it will run
    | for about 80 shots on regular alkalines??? I find this VERY disappointing
    | for one big reason I got the grip is to have that "limp home" ability with
    | widely available alkalines!
    | Anyone else having this problem?
    |
    |
     
    David H. Lipman, Dec 16, 2004
    #7
  8. Scott Evans

    ZONED! Guest

    The first part (It is a problem common to many if not all BG-E2s ) Is a
    fact based on personal experience (multiple bodies and grips), not to
    mention posts in DPreview
    http://search.dpreview.com/forums/search.asp?query=20d+grip&forum=1019
    .. The second part (Canon is dealing with it soon ) is what a Canon rep.
    told me in a face to face meeting on Saturday 12/11 at a major camera
    store nearby. I cannot attest to the validity of his statement.
     
    ZONED!, Dec 17, 2004
    #8
  9. Scott Evans

    Scott Evans Guest

    Read Canon batter grip documents.
    Lithiums are not meant to work in this grip.
    I swear to God.
     
    Scott Evans, Dec 17, 2004
    #9
  10. I'm from Missouri

    Show me.

    Dave



    | Read Canon batter grip documents.
    | Lithiums are not meant to work in this grip.
    | I swear to God.
    |
    | | > Don't use Alkaline batteries !
    | >
    | > Get AA Lithium.
    | >
    | > Dave
    | >
    | >
    | >
    | >
    | > | > | Just got my new 20D with battery grip. But I have quickly discovered
    | that I
    | > | can only get one shot out of a fresh set of alkalines installed in
    | battery
    | > | grip and then upon the next shutter release...I get a blank display and
    | dead
    | > | battery indicator flashing. I called Canon Canada...and their phone rep
    | told
    | > | me that the tech behind said I need to use high milliamp output
    | batteries.
    | > | Obviously referring to rechargeable NiMH. But why do they claim it will
    | run
    | > | for about 80 shots on regular alkalines??? I find this VERY
    | disappointing
    | > | for one big reason I got the grip is to have that "limp home" ability
    | with
    | > | widely available alkalines!
    | > | Anyone else having this problem?
    | > |
    | > |
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
     
    David H. Lipman, Dec 17, 2004
    #10
  11. Scott Evans

    Ryadia Guest

    So I have some news here.

    I use a Sigma 24~70 f2.8 on my 20D. It sits on a tripod most of the day
    shooting santa pics this time of the year. Last night I followed the link
    above and did some investigation on my own. The Sigma lens is what I would
    call a "High drain" device. I used an oscilloscope to measure the battery
    output with a variety of (Canon and Sigma) lenses in use.

    The Canon lens which draws the least power is the plastic affair which comes
    with the "kit". The lens drawing the most power is Sigma 100~300 f4 lens.
    The 24~70 is next highest drain. When the batteries are at 30% or less, the
    drain from running the focus motor and charging the internal flash at the
    same time, kills the camera. Sometimes with error 99 which is basically a
    fault it can't find and others just dead!

    Doug
     
    Ryadia, Dec 17, 2004
    #11
  12. Scott Evans

    Ryadia Guest

    Copied from the data sheet:
    "If using throw away AA size batteries, Alkaline batteries are recommended.
    <snip>
    Lithium batteries cannot be used since they do not operate in this camera.
    For rechargable batteries, use fully charged Nickel-hydride batteries that
    are the same brand."

    Doug
     
    Ryadia, Dec 17, 2004
    #12
  13. Scott Evans

    Alan Browne Guest

    Minolta too. No Lithium batts in the VC-9 grip.
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 17, 2004
    #13
  14. The following sounds like a bunch of BS. --
    "Lithium batteries cannot be used since they do not operate in this camera"

    A "AA" battery is a AA battery. The above sentence says NOTHING since the
    BP-511/511A/512/514 are Lithium batteries with AA batteries being an alternate power source.

    I would not believe *any* camera manufacturer unless they stated specific reasons a Lithium
    battery can not be used. I use Lithium AA's in all sorts of devices. The only device that
    shows a difference is a AA flashlight where the bulb has a shorter life. The flashlight
    bulb has a shorter life for a simple reason, Lithium holds its voltage longer (which is just
    slightly higher than Alkaline) without a voltage decay as a function of time while standard
    and Lithium AA will have a voltage decay's a function of time. Since the life of a bulb is
    dependant on the temperature of the filament and the filament burns hot longer, the bulb's
    resultant life is shorter. This is not the same as any electronic device which uses active
    electronic components not passive components.

    Since the BP-511/511A/512/514 ARE in fact rechargeable Lithium batteries it is most likely a
    Japanese to English language conversion mistake . In all the Canon web based documents I
    found, the following is noted "* With Battery Grip BG-E2, size-AA batteries can be used."
    This includes the PDF Manual for the 20D.

    Unless a device SPECIFICALLY states use of Lithium batteries will void a given warranty, I
    would not believe the manufacturer.

    Dave

    | Copied from the data sheet:
    | "If using throw away AA size batteries, Alkaline batteries are recommended.
    | <snip>
    | Lithium batteries cannot be used since they do not operate in this camera.
    | For rechargable batteries, use fully charged Nickel-hydride batteries that
    | are the same brand."|
    | Doug
    |
    |
     
    David H. Lipman, Dec 17, 2004
    #14
  15. Scott Evans

    JC Dill Guest

    What part of "Lithium's voltage is just slightly higher than Alkaline"
    isn't a credible reason for the caution to not use Lithium batteries?

    If the manufacturer says "don't use Lithium batteries" and the OP is
    having power related problems when using Lithium batteries, then the
    first step is to stop using Lithium batteries and see if the problem
    remains, or goes away.

    jc
     
    JC Dill, Dec 18, 2004
    #15
  16. Scott Evans

    ZONED! Guest

    There are a huge number of different posts listed in the link I
    provided, some sound like the same problem that I have while others
    address numerous different problems. I can only attest to my own
    experiences. The problem that I have (with the BG-E2 grip) occurs with
    no flash, manual focus (both intended to limit drain) and brand new
    AAs. The camera shuts down completely, no error, no LCD activity save
    for an empty battery sign which flashes indicating a dead battery. This
    occurs more than 50% of the time before the shutter is triggered once.
    All is reset after switching off, ejecting the cartridge for a few
    seconds, reloading it and powering up. And around and around it goes.
     
    ZONED!, Dec 18, 2004
    #16
  17. Scott Evans

    Ryadia Guest

    I suppose you could take solace in the knowledge that the 10D grip never had
    AA battery holder!
    You can use the grip with just one battery. When that discharges, replace it
    with the fresh one. I had thought originally the grip would provide deep
    power but it doesn't. All you get is the portrait functionaltiy and the
    ability to use hand strap.

    I shot another 300 frames today, this time with the grip but only one
    battery in it. I'm as confussed now as I've ever been. No idea what you or
    my cameras problem is!! Sigh.

    Doug
     
    Ryadia, Dec 18, 2004
    #17
  18. The OP is not using Lithium batteries. The Canon stock rechargeable batteries are Lithium
    and a .1v higher voltage is insignificant. If it was significant why would Canon uses
    Lithium in the BP-511/511A/512/514.

    A Camera, *any* Camera will work with Lithium AA batteries for the same reason all the CD
    Players, Radios, Toothbrushes, etc, have worked happily with Lithium and for a longer period
    than Alkaline batteries do.

    Dave



    |
    | What part of "Lithium's voltage is just slightly higher than Alkaline"
    | isn't a credible reason for the caution to not use Lithium batteries?
    |
    | If the manufacturer says "don't use Lithium batteries" and the OP is
    | having power related problems when using Lithium batteries, then the
    | first step is to stop using Lithium batteries and see if the problem
    | remains, or goes away.
    |
    | jc
    |
    |
     
    David H. Lipman, Dec 18, 2004
    #18
  19. Scott Evans

    Ryadia Guest

    Hey David...
    It's OK to get passionate about a belief but we're talking here about a
    statement from Canon that says explicitely not to use Lithium batteries. If
    you argue with Canon, I can understand it but shooting the messenger because
    you don't like what they say is very Romanish, don't you think?

    Doug
     
    Ryadia, Dec 18, 2004
    #19
  20. Maybe Doug, but, I can't find any real documentary information barring the use of AA Lithium
    batteries.

    If I had that unit, I would be using AA Lithium Batteries and I bet there would be no
    problems in doing so.

    Dave




    | Hey David...
    | It's OK to get passionate about a belief but we're talking here about a
    | statement from Canon that says explicitely not to use Lithium batteries. If
    | you argue with Canon, I can understand it but shooting the messenger because
    | you don't like what they say is very Romanish, don't you think?
    |
    | Doug
    |
    |
     
    David H. Lipman, Dec 18, 2004
    #20
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