35mm darkroom vs LF darkroom survey

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by Michael Scarpitti, Sep 24, 2003.

  1. How many of you are exclusively or primarily 35mm reportage types?

    How many of you would consider yourselves primarily LF/landscape/zs
    types?

    The reason I ask is that it is the 35mm reportage to whom I direct
    most of my comments. I think we'd all get along better if we simply
    took cognizance of that.

    How many use condenser enlargers?
    How many use graded papers exclusively or primarily?

    Is there any way we could stipulate to which audience to direct our
    comments?
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Sep 24, 2003
    #1
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  2. Further questions:

    How many of you hate the Zone System? Frown upon drum processing of any sort?
    Loathe the whole idiotic concept of "previsualization"? (Oh, sorry, I meant
    "previsualisation".)

    Anyone else here who would only consider using Leica Focotar enlarging equipment?

    How many others here who think just like me?

    Can we start our own group so we're not bothered by the opinions of other,
    less educated peons?

    Maybe we could all dress alike and walk around together, too.

    Just asking.


    --
    It's fun to demonize the neo-cons and rejoice in their discomfiture, but
    don't make the mistake of thinking US foreign policy was set by Norman
    Podhoretz or William Kristol. They're the clowns capering about in front of
    the donkey and the elephant. The donkey says the UN should clean up after
    them, and the elephant now says the donkey may have a point. Somebody has
    come out with a dustpan and broom.

    - Alexander Cockburn, _CounterPunch_
    (http://www.counterpunch.org), 9/17/03
     
    David Nebenzahl, Sep 24, 2003
    #2
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  3. Michael Scarpitti

    LEDMRVM Guest

    How many of you are exclusively or primarily 35mm reportage types?

    35mm is my most used medium if that is what you mean.
    Not me.
    I don't care where you direct your comments.
    I use both condenser and dichro.
    I use both graded and multigrade paper.
    Why? There is some carry over, if only for the sake of awareness.

    Why not communicate only with yourself. Doing so would give you the responses
    you prefer.

    Ed
     
    LEDMRVM, Sep 24, 2003
    #3
  4. Michael Scarpitti

    Peter Guest

    The 35mm reportage types were never likely to do much in darkrooms, and
    they've all gone digital anyway :)

    Perhaps you're in the wrong group?

    Peter
     
    Peter, Sep 24, 2003
    #4
  5. Not me: I find it very helpful. Now exactly how I apply it depends on
    what I am doing. Photographing fast-moving dancers lit by spotlights
    with automatic exposure on a Nikon FE2 with motor drive is somewhat
    different than whan I photograph a cliff with trees on it or waves
    crashing on the seashore.
    I realy like drum processing for negatives; I get much more consistent
    results and temperature is much easier to control.
    I loathe only calling it _previsualization_. I would call it
    _visualization_ and consider the _pre_ to be a reduncancy.
    It is my understanding that it is very good equipment. I do not happen
    to use it because it is too difficult to get 4"x5" negatives to fit it.
    Good idea. Who is Henri's tailor?
     
    Jean-David Beyer, Sep 24, 2003
    #5

  6. Perhaps you misunderstood. The reason I ask is that it seems there are
    few 35mm reportage types on this group, and that is my format &
    working style. If I say I don't use ZS and most here are LF users who
    do, we're at cross purposes. We won't get anywhere simply because
    they're making white wine and I'm making red.

    So, if I ask for tips on how to age my riserva for 7 years, they won't
    even know what I'm talking about.

    Their experience and goals and mine don't overlap enough for us to
    discuss things without serious divergences of opinion that are
    probably related more to our world view than anything else.

    Is that clearer?
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Sep 25, 2003
    #6
  7. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    I have thought that the "pre" was simply to differentiate against "post"
    which would be the process of altering the interpretation of the image in the
    darkroom.

    Of course I concur that the term previsualize is something of an oxymoron
    though. Right up there with bipartisan cooperation and conservative Republican.

    ;>))

    Regards

    John S. Douglas, Photographer
    http://www.darkroompro.com
     
    John, Sep 25, 2003
    #7
  8. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    X-Original-Message-ID: <>
    X-Agent-Group: rec.photo.darkroom
    X-Agent-Format: 1 1 0 1 1 630000 0 0 1 0 "*" 0
    X-Intro: "On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:13 +0100 (BST), (Peter)
    wrote:\n"

    There are many exceptions of course. Many of the best did their own work.
    W.E.Smith is my favorite.

    IMO, the best way to get to know your images is printing every single one
    of them.
    Ah yes. Have JPEG's and cell phones and any image is only minutes from the
    press.

    Regards,

    John S. Douglas - Photographer, Webmaster & Computer Tech
    Website --- http://www.darkroompro.com
     
    John, Sep 25, 2003
    #8

  9. That wasn't the point. If I'm working primarily with 35mm reportage,
    and you don't, we have different needs. This group is merely called
    'darkroom', and it is not specifically oriented either to of the two
    major types of photography: reportage and still-life/static. So,my
    experience and interests are with the former, and when I try to
    address these, the responses come mostly from the latter group, and we
    clash.

    That's why I'm trying to determine how many people out there are 35mm
    reportage B&W workers.

    My heroes are NOT Weston and Adams, but HCB, Salgado, Smith, et al...

    I am moved by some of Weston's work, a little of Adams's, and none of
    Sexton's that I have seen so far.

    So, I'm interested in focusing on the problems and solutions of the
    35mm B&W reportage worker, and trying to save those beginning 35mm
    monochrome work from falling into the clutches of the zoneheads.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Sep 25, 2003
    #9
  10. On 9/24/2003 8:11 PM Michael Scarpitti spake thus:

    [...]
    If that's really what you're after (which I doubt, since you're such an
    inveterate world-class shit disturber, but never mind that), then I wouldn't
    sweat it. Most people have enough intelligence to sort it all out without
    dividing up into a bunch of subgroups--"OK, devotees of LF photography using
    the Zone System go to Room 114, 'decisive moment' HCB wannabes out on the
    street". If folks have questions that really only pertains to one or the other
    style of photography, the context of their questions will allow us to muddle
    through it all.

    After all, at the end of the day regardless of our particular styles of
    ruining film^H^H^H^H^H^Hmaking photographs, we all end up in the darkroom,
    don't we?


    --
    It's fun to demonize the neo-cons and rejoice in their discomfiture, but
    don't make the mistake of thinking US foreign policy was set by Norman
    Podhoretz or William Kristol. They're the clowns capering about in front of
    the donkey and the elephant. The donkey says the UN should clean up after
    them, and the elephant now says the donkey may have a point. Somebody has
    come out with a dustpan and broom.

    - Alexander Cockburn, _CounterPunch_
    (http://www.counterpunch.org), 9/17/03
     
    David Nebenzahl, Sep 25, 2003
    #10
  11. Michael Scarpitti

    Jim Phelps Guest

    Not I. I use the format appropriate to the image. As soon as I scape
    together enough pennies, I'm gonna buy be a LF camera too.
    I do a lot of landscapes, but seldom adhere to the ZS regime. I do use
    portions of the ZS in determining exposure. I also do a lot of candids and
    close-up of flowers.
    This is a darkroom group. Not an
    'alt.rec.photo.35mmB&Wprintersaccordingtomilke' group. I think there is
    someone who needs to acknowledge and accept this fact. I feel we can narrow
    it down to one, however.
    I do, but not exclusively. I also swap the condenser for the diffusor when
    the image requires or the effect is needed. It's called photography and the
    basing of your processes on a single tool within the art is like repairing a
    Chevy using only a screwdriver.
    See above, only swap the pertinent words around.
    Yes, remain open minded and non-dictatorial. Your ways are not the only
    ways. Allow people to discover their means to fulfill their desires.
    Answer the questions and pose your own that are on topic for the most part
    and grow with those who are also here. You should never give up learning
    nor teaching. You should always give up a closed mind. If you don't, then
    your audience will be of one, yourself. Unless that is your goal?
     
    Jim Phelps, Sep 25, 2003
    #11
  12. I think _previsualization_ was a term Minor White came up with. I am not
    sure if Ansel Adams ever wrote it (though I suppose he may have picked
    up the bad habit from Minor White). It is not so much of oxymoron as
    redundancy.

    This message brought to you by The Department Of Redundancy Department.
     
    Jean-David Beyer, Sep 25, 2003
    #12
  13. Michael Scarpitti

    Alexis Neel Guest

    not me, although I print a lot of it.

    Not me, although I print a lot of it

    There are easier ways to get along, starting with a good look in the
    mirror and realizing you are not the expert you think you are.

    I use all 3 types of enlarger heads depending on the result I want.

    I use all paper types to get the results I want.

    Start the rec.photo.michael.is.always.right group.

    I thought you were doing Fine art? The syrup boy certainly qualifies.
    The reason for the class can be identified by looking in a mirror.

    I know Salgado personally and have printed a few of HCB negs. They
    would think you are a loony tune.


    When have you looked at any of Sexton's images? 2 days ago you didn't
    even know who he was.
    Start the rec.photo.michael.is.always.right group so people who want
    to fall into your way of photography can then be called idiot heads
     
    Alexis Neel, Sep 25, 2003
    #13
  14. Finally someone said this! The word *is* "visualization", and so is the
    process. AA did not use the word "previsualization" - he always said
    (and wrote) "visualization". The "pre-" crept in sometime later and
    spread like a virus. It is a redundancy.

    James Meckley
     
    James Meckley, Sep 25, 2003
    #14
  15. 'Fine art'? Preposrterous. No photography is 'fine art'. It's
    something entirely separate. Photograpy is sui generis.

    I think his recent work is getting a little stale compared to his
    earlier stuff.
    It happens to everyone. It becomes a grind.

    Tell him I said Hi.
    Not by name. I've seen his books in bookstores, but was so unimpressed
    his name didn't register. It goes in one eye and out the other.
    Look. I'm not going to say this again. My background and knowledge of
    photography are first-rate. The photos of mine that you have seen are
    25-35 years old. I show them ONLY to show what I could already do at a
    very young age. Yes, many of them are technically less than optimum,
    and I readily admit that. That's not why they're being presented.

    I'm going to have something in the next few days that shows my current
    capabilities. I took it last night, and developed the film already.
    The negs are fine. HP5+ in Acutol.

    I have been advising and helping people in photography, both
    professinals and amateurs, for many, many years. Successfully, too.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Sep 25, 2003
    #15
  16. Michael Scarpitti

    jjs Guest

    The proof is in the picture. I'm looking forward to this picture you speak
    of.
    Advising and consulting means squat. Exactly what do you do all day that
    gives you time to spend 12 hours at the keyboard?
     
    jjs, Sep 25, 2003
    #16
  17. ......

    Goodness gracious me Michael, is there no end to your talents? I
    didn't suspect that you are a wine expert too, but I should have, of
    course!
     
    John Stockdale, Sep 26, 2003
    #17
  18. Michael Scarpitti

    Andrew Price Guest

    It probably makes quite a good stop-bath ...
     
    Andrew Price, Sep 26, 2003
    #18
  19. Michael Scarpitti

    Nick Zentena Guest

    Vinegar does-))))

    Nick
     
    Nick Zentena, Sep 26, 2003
    #19
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