4.5 volt charger, not 5 volt?

I have 3 FujiFilm digital cameras that all use the same type of 5 volt
chargers. One of the chargers is missing, and I want to give my oldest
camera to my daughter. I can only find 4.5 volt universal chargers that fit
the camera's plug-in. I can set the polarity correctly. Will the slightly
lower voltage damage the camera? Will it be sufficient to recharge the
battery? I hesitate to "just try it" because of the possible damage. Is
there a better place for me to post this query?

 

If one of the chargers is missing, that means you have 2, therefore why
don't you give your daughter one of these 2?

DP

 

it will not charge the battery

 

Chargers like this often have a fair degree of tolerance and
personally I suspect it'll work. AFAIUI voltage is like a 'pressure'
that pushes the current through, slightly less pressure shouldn't
therefore cause any problems - it'll either work or not work.

I've added sci.electronics.misc so one of the large-foreheaded boffins
in there can either confirm it, or tell me I'm an idiot.

 

It probably won't damage the battery, but may not fully charge it either.
You could try it and see.

Or check online sellers or eBay for chargers for that battery type, whatever
it is. You're apparently charging the battery in the camera, but there might
be separate chargers for the battery type which should work at least as
well.

 

Digital electronics don't like being run at voltages for which they
were not designed. Electronics gates may fail to fully turn on or off.
At a lower voltage, some devices will draw more current and may exceed
their design parameters.

If the camera is worth more than $150, why not spend the $30 to find the right
adapter? Get one used on ebay if you're too damn cheap.

 

Many of the universal adapters are not regulated, they are all nominal
voltages. The better universal adapters are regulated and will be very
close to the rated voltage.

If the camera uses 4 AA NiMH batteries, then a 4.5V adapter won't be
sufficient, in fact I'm surprised that they use a 5V adapter since this
is barely enough, since at full charge the batteries are around 1.25V.

Personally, with a 5V adapter costing about $6, I wouldn't bother with
the universal model, but you'll have to buy the right connector for the
Fuji camera and attach it to the charger with the proper polarity.

The universal chargers are rather dangerous, as it's too easy for
someone to accidentally change the voltage setting or the polarity.

I think that the Fuji uses a 1.7mm diameter power plug (at least older
Fuji's such as the MX1200 did), Radio Shack Catalog #: 274-1532. Not
sure about the polarity.

"http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PS-537/480/5VDC_3.7A_SWITCHING_POWER_SUPPLY_.html"
"http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PS-523/480/5_VDC_2_AMP_SWITCHING_POWER_SUPPLY_.html"
"http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PS-528/480/5_VDC_2_AMP_SWITCHING_POWER_SUPPLY_.html"
"http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PS-506/480/5_VDC_1.6_AMP_SWITCHING_POWER_SUPPLY_.html"
"http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PS-504/480/5_VDC,_1_AMP_SWITCHING_POWER_SUPPLY_.html"

If you don't mind a little soldering, this is the way to go.

 

Thanks, Steven, for a very helpful reply. The camera is too old to justify
the cost of a new FujiFilm replacement, and the other 2 cameras are used in
2 different locations so they each need their own charger. So my choices are
to keep the old one as a backup in one of the locations, or risk ruining it
by trying a cheap adapter. Or Ebay - some there may have promise. I'll look
into your suggestions, and probably buy the daughter a new inexpensive
digital camera.

 

From his description I'd assume his Fujifilm has a Li-Ion battery, not four
AA cells, since evidently he plugs the charger into the camera itself. The
battery in that case is probably 3.7V, so a 4.5V adapter might be enough.

My old Fuji MX-2900 is like that; the AC adapter also serves as a battery
charger, with the battery in the camera. Most such batteries are available
cheap on eBay and he might be able to find a separate charger for it there
also, whatever his battery type is.

 

The real question here is what camera is it, and what kind of batteries.
If it's a 3.7V Li-Ion, or two AA NiMH, then 4.5V will likely be okay,
and even 6V might be fine if 4.5V doesn't work. But if it's four AA
NiMH, then 4.5V won't work (but 6V might work).

Be sure to get the polarity correct with the universal adapter, the
voltage being a little two high is probably okay, but the wrong polarity
can quickly zap the camera. Canon uses negative tip, but most products
are positive tip.

I _do_ suggest a cheap adapter, but a 5 volt one that you put the proper
tip onto. somehow.

 

FujiFilm MX-700. Battery is model no. NP-100 - Lithium Ion 3.6v 1350mAh.
And, yes, I plug the charger into any of my 3 camera to charge their
batteries. I have purchased a COBY universal adapter CA-11, that is one
integrated unit with the polarity and voltage switches on the transformer,
so are less likely to be accidentally changed. One of the 4 rigidly
connected male jacks fits the camera female exactly. So I'll give it a try.
I'll let you all know if smoke is emitted! Thank you for the help.

 

"Battery is model no. NP-100 - Lithium Ion 3.6v

But is the 4.5v charger, regardless of the fact that it is called
"universal," designed for Lithium Ion batteries? The differences in the
charging algorithms for Li-Ion, NiMH, and NiCd are more important than
the difference between 4.5 and 5 volts.

It is probable that part of the charging circuitry is within the camera
itself, and that the 5v charger is specially designed to work with it.
Therefore, a "universal" charger is *not* what you need.

 

The Coby CA-11 is not regulated, so the actual voltage will depend on
the load. Since you're overloading it (it's rated at only 300 mA, and
just charging the battery with the camera off is 340mA), I think the
actual voltage will be much less than 4.5V, so you may want to try the
6V setting. A non regulated supply doesn't provide the actual voltage on
the switch, the voltage falls as the load increases.

The Fuji MX-700 draws about 340mA (measured) with the camera off and
charging, and about 1000 mA if the camera is on with the LCD on.

You might be able to charge the batteries with the Colby unit, but it's
only 300 mA, which is extremely low for a digital camera that is
charging an internal Li-Ion battery. You could get the Coby CA-44 which
is 1000 mA, still unregulated.

What you really should buy is either:

a) Philmore 48-1190, which will do 5 volts, is regulated, and has the
plug for the Fuji Camera. You can see it at
"http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/DC_Multi_Voltage_.html" it's the
last item on the page. This is the proper voltage, supplies enough
current, and has the proper plug. I've ordered from that source before,
with good results. I don't think you'll find this product in any store.

You can also buy the "http://sterlingtek.com/fujdigcamad.html" which is
for Fuji only, for $15.

Remember, it's not just the voltage, it's the current. Look at one of
your Fuji adapters, I'd wager that it's rated between 1000 mA and 1800
mA. 300 mA is way too low. But you might get it to work, as long as
you're not trying to operate the camera from the AC adapter at the same
time.

 

My recommendation: don't use it at all. The Fuji adapter is probably
regulated, and delivers very close to 5 V under any load up to its
maximum rating. The camera is designed for 5 V, but probably works fine
over a range of voltages like 4.5-5.5 V.

But the Coby wall wart, if unregulated, probably outputs 7-8 V with no
load. This may be enough to damage the camera.

A *regulated* 5 V adapter would be ideal. One that outputs 4.5 V
regulated would likely also work, and not damage anything if it didn't
work. But an *unregulated* adapter rated at 4.5 V could be
destructive.

Dave

 

Nice story !! but the Camera actually runs on the Internal Battery . and
none of the quoted nonsense applies.

The quoted 4.5 Volts may actually be the Average Voltage from the
Charger and may well be 5.0 volts peak, which is the part of the
waveform that charges the batteries. The test is does the battery hold
a full Charge after an overnight charge cycle. Try it!. Worst case is
the battery will not come to a full charge . In which case you have your
answer.

Yukio YANO

 

The AC adapter is magically wired to the battery without any electronics.

 

On many of the cameras that charge the Li-Ion battery internally, you
can run the camera off the AC adapter without a battery in the camera at
all.

There is no waveform. This a DC charger, with capacitors to smooth out
the rectified power.

Probably true. Without a battery in the camera, if the camera is turned
on, the 300mA wall wart won't do anything, since the load is so high
that the voltage will be very low.

With a battery in the camera and the camera on, the battery will
continue to discharge, just maybe a little slower. With the battery in
the camera and the camera off, it may charge the camera battery, maybe
not, though at a higher voltage setting on the adapter, it may charge
the, just a bit slower.

Personally, I'd buy the proper adapter and be done with it. The proper
adapter will cost around $20, including shipping, from Sterlingtek.com,
or the universal Philmore adapter will coat around $25, including
shipping from minute-man. Or a 5 volt regulated adapter from All
Electronics is about $12 including shipping, but you have to buy the
proper tip and solder it on, which is not worth the trouble.

 

The cameras that charge the battery inside the camera, have all the
charging control circuitry inside the camera, and the charger simply
puts out DC at a specific voltage (at a sufficient current). A "generic"
charger is fine in this case, as long as it's the proper voltage can
supply sufficient current.

I like my Canon G2, which can charge the battery inside the camera, but
most manufacturers no longer do in-camera charging.

 

Actually, on lithium packs, there is a separate contact for charging
versus discharging. So you can have the situation where the device will
not work without the battery in place, because there is no connection
between the AC adapter and the camera electronics, only to the charging
contact of the battery.

On notebook computers, there are often similar models from the same
manufacturer, with the same power jack, that use different wattage
chargers depending on the CPU. Since low end notebooks often use a high
power desktop CPU, versus the more expensive and lower power notebook
CPUs, some cheaper models may need say an 85W charger, while the more
expensive ones may need a 65W charger. Using the lower power adapter on
the higher power notebook will charge the battery if the notebook is
off, but the lower power adapter cannot operate, or charge the battery,
of the higher power notebook that's turned on (though it will slow the
discharge of the battery).

 

IMHO i don't think you are risking anything by trying it out. At worse, it
won't be powerful enough, just like batteries that were running out.