50mm pictures with D300

Discussion in 'Australia Photography' started by Sosumi, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    "Oh, I don't know, If you pay attention, you might just learn
    And this relates to your Fantasy Land media scrum how?
    Did I say it stops there?
    The scrum was simply a little scenario to illustrate that sighted people use
    the same technique I use for taking pictures. My problem, is that because
    I'm blind, people just close their mind and say it can't be done.

    Your letdown is the effect I was aiming for.

    Is that it? Nothing more to it than that?

    Yep. And, Nope.

    If a sighted person can do it, it shouldn't be so unbelievable that a blind
    person can do it, and that initial disbelief barrier is eliminated.

    Thanks, Rusty. You said it all!

    Having done it for many years professionally, I really couldn't be
    bothered now thanks.

    Blindfolded?

    And, see above about placing objects and shadows without being able to see
    them...
    Hey, everybody needs a harsh critic. Great.

    But, the challenge still stands, do it blind-folded; then, come back and
    tell me there's nothing to it.

    So, I take it you are a skeptic? You don't think it's possible for a blind
    person to create art -- ie. if you can't see what you're doing, it's just a
    lucky shot)?

    By the way, what kind of camera did you use?

    Waiting To Ask You A Question About Perspective,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 24, 2008
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  2. Sosumi

    PixelPix Guest

    WTF are you on about and how does any of this relate to the rest of
    the thread?
    Nobody has even gone there.... you are off on this Fantasy Land
    tangent ??
    Said what? Trust me... I have said anything like what I really want
    to say.

    Of course not, but you are now mixing two parts of your own post???
    But you're excused I guess, being blind and all.
    Like I said... nobody has even gone there, you are off in your Fantasy
    Land and we are just trying to figure out WTF you rambling on about.
    Studio/Landscape/Commercial etc: 5x4, Pentax 67, Blad, Bronica.
    Sport/PR etc: Canon/Minolta/Nikon/Olympus/Nikonis 35mm..... what's it
    matter?

    Don't bother, you won't comprehend what I say anyway.
     
    PixelPix, Jan 24, 2008
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  3. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    My Aunt lost her sight through Glaucoma (Ocular Hypertension)
    Yes. TTS programs are still a bit clumsy and always seem to lag a bit
    behind the operating systems and applications technologies, but at least
    they afford a basic level of access to the net which really opens up the
    world for a lot of people.
    I'm not sure which is more fun, taking the pictures, or dealing with the
    people who want to help me get them."

    Sorry I screwed up on the quote. Using speech, I miss a lot of the visual
    cues, so it can be tough to tell if somebody is quoting something, or
    whether they've written something profound themselves.

    By the way, I love your pseudanom. Shall I refer to you as A. C.?

    Listening to my keystrokes (literally),
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 24, 2008
  4. A.C. works fine for me :)
     
    Atheist Chaplain, Jan 24, 2008
  5. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    I'm not talking about just pointing a camera at a mountain and snapping
    WTF are you on about and how does any of this relate to the rest of
    the thread?

    As for the thread, it's evolved. So, I'll change the name. Shooting Blind
    sounds good. What do you think?

    As for what I'm blathering about, let me ask you something.

    If I would have put a message on the board, something like the following,
    how much thought would you have put into it?

    Hi Folks,

    So, what do you think, can a blind person appreciate or create art?

    I don't know if you know, but,as this thread was starting, I started a blog
    (http://blind-apertures.blogspot.com) and advertised it on this group, and
    several others. Nobody has logged on, and (obviously) nobody has left any
    comments.

    Blind artists aren't exactly taken seriously, unless they are insulting
    somebody, or getting on their case for ridiculing others (which really
    annoys the, er, heck out of me..).

    I take my art seriously, and I'd like to discuss art seriously with others,
    and I'm a little tired of the pat on the head, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, ..."
    patronizing attitude I can't seem to shake with the community I live in.
    So, I thought I'd shake a few people up on the net where nobody knows me,
    where I'd get a chance to put my 2 cents out there, and where people can
    either respond or ignore me.

    If you think I am worth chatting with, and if you have some questions you'd
    like to have answered about blindness or whatever, lay it on the line. If
    not, filter me out. But, whatever you do, don't patronize me.
    Nobody has even gone there.... you are off on this Fantasy Land
    tangent ??

    I didn't say anybody has gone there, but I'd like to go there, and I like
    your gut feeling about the idea...

    Said what? Trust me... I have said anything like what I really want
    to say.

    Say it, then.

    Of course not, but you are now mixing two parts of your own post???
    But you're excused I guess, being blind and all.

    No, don't excuse me. Hold me to task. I'm more than capable of dealing
    with it. And, I've got some ideas that you might even find interesting
    yourself -- as long as you don't think that my mind has stopped working
    simply because my eyes have shut down.
    Like I said... nobody has even gone there, you are off in your Fantasy
    Land and we are just trying to figure out WTF you rambling on about.

    Have you figured it out?

    Studio/Landscape/Commercial etc: 5x4, Pentax 67, Blad, Bronica.
    Sport/PR etc: Canon/Minolta/Nikon/Olympus/Nikonis 35mm..... what's it

    Hey, a man after my own heart. I used to take 18" x 24" negatives, then use
    a commercial process camera to shoot stuff. Then I'd Burn em into
    lithographic plates, gum the hell out of 'em so they wouldn't discolour too
    quickly, frame 'em and hang 'em. You couldn't beat the detail.

    A bit grey maybe, but impressed a lot of people.
    Don't bother, you won't comprehend what I say anyway.

    Like I said, don't discount me. I'm blind not stupid. I just have a bit of
    a flair for the dramatic, sometimes.

    Looking forward to hering from you,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 24, 2008
  6. I guess they were no better and no worse than I was forty years ago,
    when in that situation I'd focus by manual estimation, set the
    aperture as narrow as I dared for best DoF, and hold the camera over
    my head pointing in the right direction. It was as common a technique
    back then as it is now, we just have a few more refinements today to
    improve it if we choose.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 24, 2008
  7. If eschewing the misconceptions of the mob while addressing the
    intelligent and well-educated minority is muddying the water, then
    I'm pleased to be recognised as a muddier.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 24, 2008
  8. The effect I'm referring to has nothing to do with lenses. It's an
    inevitable geometric consequence of projecting a wide angle of view
    onto a flat image plane. You can see it in a pinhole camera with no
    lens. It's pure perspective projection geometry. Every lens will show
    it to the extent that it approximates the simple rectilinear
    projection of the lensless pinhole camera, which is what most lenses
    try to do.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 24, 2008
  9. But wrong. It's a natural effect of perspective projection of a wide
    angle of view onto a plane. That it has nothing to do with lenses is
    demonstrated by the fact that it occurs in pinhole cameras. Because
    most lenses try to emulate the natural rectilinear projection of the
    pinhole camera they produce the same effect.

    Don't they teach perspective projection in school art classes any
    more?
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 24, 2008
  10. Sosumi

    Mr.T Guest

    Which is why photographers have long understood that wide angle lenses do
    not generally make for good portraits, given that a persons face is not a
    flat plane :)

    MrT.
     
    Mr.T, Jan 24, 2008
  11. Sosumi

    Paul Furman Guest

    If it's a mild effect, it's called barrel distortion, more severe is a
    fisheye projection. Zoom lenses can show a little pincusion at other
    lengths too.
     
    Paul Furman, Jan 24, 2008
  12. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    Hey, another presshound. I knew I'd find some on this conference.

    How many years were you in the business for?

    If people didn't get it right away, I was going to drag it out a bit and see
    who knew how to position themselves behind and a bit to the left or right of
    a cameraman because they've got the lights and usually a good angle,
    problems with auto-focusing on aerial mics, etc.

    But, I think the moment is gone, now.

    What paper did you work for? Or, was it freelance?

    Glad to meet you
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 24, 2008
  13. Sosumi

    Paul Furman Guest

    The human eye has a curved sensor though. Does that matter?

    The earth is round and you use various projections to fit its surface on
    a flat rectangular map just like a photograph.
     
    Paul Furman, Jan 24, 2008
  14. Sosumi

    Mr.T Guest

    Exactly, there are a few options, each with it's own compromises and
    distortions. The only ones close to accurate are not rectangular.

    MrT.
     
    Mr.T, Jan 24, 2008
  15. Sosumi

    Savageduck Guest

    I see metaphor eludes you.
     
    Savageduck, Jan 24, 2008
  16. Sosumi

    Wilba Guest

    I think it would help a lot in this discussion if whenever perspective is
    mentioned, the speaker specifies whether they mean the perspective of the
    eye (what a human observer would see from a particular position), or the
    perspective of an image (a projection of the view onto a plane at that
    position).

    If an image is viewed at a different angle to that of the image plane at the
    time of capture, the image will show different convergence of parallel lines
    to what the photographer's eye saw.
     
    Wilba, Jan 24, 2008
  17. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    I dropped out of school in grade eleven because I had been diagnosed with a
    condition that I was told would eventually render me blind. The economy was
    good, I was from a small rural community in the middle of an oil boom, so I
    thought it was more to my advantage to go to work and make some money at a
    manual trade than it was for me to stay in school where it was becoming
    increasingly difficult to read books, etc.
    Interestingly, I found ajob in the pressroom of a local newspaper, working
    on the press crew and doing darkroom work. It's funny how things work out.
    (The paper rolls weighed 1,100 pounds, and I was a big guy.)

    I immediately fell in love with photography and image processing, and I
    started doing the odd photo stint for the sports reporter. I was at a
    hockey game, got some puck-stopping images that were better than his, so he
    sent me out to all the games after that. I don't think his ego was hurt, he
    just looked at it as having extra time off.

    From there, I started putting ads in the paper for rock bands that were
    playing at the local stadium in exchange for backstage passes, and did a bit
    of business on the side. I had a great time, especially after I managed to
    wrangle a press pass and make some contacts.

    It was a great arrangement, but I never got the chance to study the more
    academic end of art; I just bought some photo books and read a lot of
    magazines, and imitated the best I saw.

    I was always working in confined areas, sports stadiums, concert arenas ,
    other events held at hotels, etc, so perspective wasn't a great issue. In
    fact, what little instruction I received was simply based on lens type and
    the type of perspective that is produced (associated?) with each. For the
    media outlets I worked with, as long as I captured the face, it was
    recognizable, and I didn't miss any of the details in my notes, I was worth
    keeping around. A good action shot or life-style shot was bonus money.

    Eventually, the eyes gave out, and I shut down my darkroom because my ratio
    of good prints to bad prints made it uneconomical for me to experiment and
    find techniques that work with my lower vision.

    Now, with the advanced digital technology, I can practice as much as I want,
    and I am beginning to get some nice shots again, even without seeing my
    subject the same way you guys see it.

    But, in order to get better, more salable images, I hope to learn a bit more
    about the academic side of things.

    Local instructors, tutors, etc, don't take me seriously, so I hope you
    fellows will share a bit of your knowledge base with me.

    I'll try to be less annoying than I have been, but, I look at things from a
    different "perspective", have never been shy about going after anything,
    and have never been very good at taking "no" for an answer. So I hope you
    will at least entertain some of my more crazier notions, and tell me what
    you really think, even if it is not always flattering.

    Take Care,
    Dudley
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 24, 2008
  18. Sosumi

    Dudley Hanks Guest

    It's been dealt with...
     
    Dudley Hanks, Jan 24, 2008
  19. Sosumi

    Wilba Guest

    The point other posters are trying to get across to you is, yes, it is
    fundamentally different.
    Rather than give opinions, give them a sufficiently precise description of
    the physics that explains how it isn't "all that different". I think only
    that would shut them up.
     
    Wilba, Jan 24, 2008
  20. Sosumi

    Mr.T Guest

    Actually no, the eye still sees the same converging lines, it's just that
    the brain is used to interpreting it as experience tells it to.

    MrT.
     
    Mr.T, Jan 24, 2008
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