50x and 60x zoom cameras

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Alfred Molon, Jan 11, 2014.

  1. Alfred Molon

    Alfred Molon Guest

    A number of bridge cameras with a giant zoom range have been recently
    announced. Tiny little sensor (1/2.3") and who knows how the lens performs. Is
    anybody using such cameras and how usable are the results?
     
    Alfred Molon, Jan 11, 2014
    #1
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  2. Alfred Molon

    David Taylor Guest

    Can't comment on such large-range optical zooms, but the Sony HX200V I
    have offers a 30x zoom, for 27 to 810 mm (equivalent), at 18 MP.
    Comparing it to the 200 mm optical (300 mm equivalent) on the Nikon
    D5200 (24 MP), there does seem to be some extra detail, but it can get
    lost in the JPEG compression (as you are pixel peeping to see the
    difference). Even at 800 mm hand-holding requires care, and with the
    2:1 digital zoom offered by the Sony - meaning a 1600 mm equivalent -
    hand holding is problematic at best, very difficult most of the time,
    even though the camera has optical image stabilisation. You really need
    a tripod, defeating "small camera" advantages.

    I haven't used it a lot at the wider-end of the zoom - but the
    performance was "adequate". As an experiment, I used it as my only
    camera on a four-day trip to the Netherlands and was reasonably happy
    with the results. I know these are only snapshots....

    http://www.satsignal.eu/Hols/2012/09-The-Netherlands/album/index.html
     
    David Taylor, Jan 11, 2014
    #2
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  3. Alfred Molon

    John Keiser Guest

    I'd be pleased with the shots. Which, if any, were any taken at the longer
    focal lengths?
     
    John Keiser, Jan 11, 2014
    #3
  4. Alfred Molon

    Mort Guest

    Hi,

    Although some of your Dutch pictures lack detail, one cannot tell if
    that is due to the e-mail attachment and the PC screen. In any event,
    the pictures are interesting, albeit in just a few locations.
    A dish in one picture says: Het weer en de Vrouwen zijn niet te
    vertrouwen = The weather and women are not to be trusted. I had a
    problem once while living in Utrecht, NL. I said trouwen (to marry)
    instead of vertrouwen (to trust), to a lady fiend, and it was
    uncomfortable when I realized my error and quickly explained. I was only
    there a few weeks when that occurred; by 2 months or so my Dutch was fluent.

    Not being a birder, I find that the 5X zoom in my camera is sufficient
    for almost all my picture taking. The zoom with 10 toes often helps in
    the field, while selective cropping and then printing also helps.

    Thanks for sharing your pictures.

    Mort Linder
     
    Mort, Jan 12, 2014
    #4
  5. Alfred Molon

    PeterN Guest

    I disagree. They are much better than ordinary snapshots. They show
    composition, which is the result of thought and planning. Indeed, they
    are interesting to view.
     
    PeterN, Jan 12, 2014
    #5
  6. Alfred Molon

    David Taylor Guest

    Thanks! Maybe I meant "snapshot" quality, but I make no pretence to be
    a "good" photographer - perhaps technically competent. Of course, that
    is a small subset - which should raise the average level (all being well!).
     
    David Taylor, Jan 12, 2014
    #6
  7. Alfred Molon

    David Taylor Guest

    I don't think any of those were, John. I have put up some originals
    (likely out of the camera) shots at or very near 810 mm focal length here:

    http://www.satsignal.eu/Hols/2012/09-The-Netherlands/810mm-shots.html

    Be warned of the JPEG artefacts on the images, not visible in normal
    viewing, only if pixel peeping. This is an 18 MB camera (4896 a 3672
    pixels). I would have preferred fewer pixels, to be honest!
     
    David Taylor, Jan 12, 2014
    #7
  8. Alfred Molon

    David Taylor Guest

    David Taylor, Jan 12, 2014
    #8
  9. Alfred Molon

    Savageduck Guest

    Savageduck, Jan 12, 2014
    #9
  10. Alfred Molon

    Alfred Molon Guest

    There is a similar word in German ("trauen"), spelled differently but
    pronounced in the same way. The meaning can be both trust and marry.
     
    Alfred Molon, Jan 12, 2014
    #10
  11. Alfred Molon

    Alfred Molon Guest

    The sharpness actually is quite good, at least in the train picture and the
    anno 1671 one.
     
    Alfred Molon, Jan 12, 2014
    #11
  12. Alfred Molon

    M-M Guest

    So why not lower the file size by reducing the resolution rather than
    increasing the jpg compression? i.e., make them 2448 x 1836 (50%)
     
    M-M, Jan 12, 2014
    #12
  13. Alfred Molon

    Mort Guest

    Thank you, and now I must be doubly careful, for I am dating a
    German-born lady.

    Mort Linder
     
    Mort, Jan 13, 2014
    #13
  14. Alfred Molon

    David Taylor Guest

    Partially, because there is no choice of JPEG quality on this camera (or
    if there is, I didn't find it on a quick look through the menus), and in
    the past I have found that reducing resolution /after/ JPEG compression
    will mean that at least some of the JPEG artefacts will be reduced by
    the resolution reduction (i.e. interpolation) and hence you get a better
    quality final image. Keeping more information appears to benefit the
    end result.

    In this particular case, I wanted to show the image just as it came out
    of the camera, defects and all, as the OP was interested in the longer
    lens, its quality or otherwise, and what could be achieved.
     
    David Taylor, Jan 13, 2014
    #14
  15. Alfred Molon

    M-M Guest

    Oh, I see. I thought the artifacts came in post-processing.

    Did you hand-hold those long shots?
     
    M-M, Jan 13, 2014
    #15
  16. Alfred Molon

    David Taylor Guest

    No post-processing. I strongly believe in trying to get it right "in
    the camera", which comes from a background of slide photography. You
    can't always, of course.

    No tripods, all hand-held or braced against the nearest convenient object.
     
    David Taylor, Jan 13, 2014
    #16
  17. Alfred Molon

    PeterN Guest

    I too try, but once PS came along I reacted like a kid in a candy store.
     
    PeterN, Jan 14, 2014
    #17
  18. Alfred Molon

    Savageduck Guest

    Aah! The digital darkroom, a wonderful thing. Just note David is
    telling us he used to shoot slides. With that there was little to no,
    user processing, only getting it right in the camera. He didn't even
    have the fun of a wet darkroom to consider, just whatever the lab
    returned to him.

    When photographers say: "I try to get everything right in-camera." They
    actually mean; "I try to get everything right in-camera, but mostly I
    have to fix things in Photoshop."
    When photographers say; "I only carry out minimal post-processing."
    They actually mean: "Photoshop confuses the heck out of me. I can move
    those sliders around a bit, but I really have no idea of what I am
    doing."

    As much as some of the "getting it right in the camera" school try to
    hold to film shooting convention, there isn't a direct extrapolation
    from film to digital. Once basic exposure settings are dealt with, if
    the shooter is shooting JPEG he is going to have to contend with WB,
    saturation, sharpening, and a few other things which can be done in the
    camera. However, if he is shooting RAW, there will be a computer in
    workflow.
     
    Savageduck, Jan 14, 2014
    #18
  19. Alfred Molon

    Mort Guest

    To make it more complicated, there is a German word "heiraten" which
    means to marry.

    At my late stage in life, I'll remain a single widower.

    Regards,

    Mort Linder
     
    Mort, Jan 15, 2014
    #19
  20. Alfred Molon

    PeterN Guest

    He did, to a limited extent, if he made Cibachrome prints.

    Hard to agree. Even members of the f64 school recognize that most images
    need post, to one degree or another. the best practice is to try to get
    it as close to "right" as possible. And not be sloppy about such things
    as exposure, light direction, contrast, light color, etc. There are
    times in the field that one has little choice but top take what he can
    get, and then fix. However the better the in-camera image, the less work
    in post.

    <snip>
     
    PeterN, Jan 15, 2014
    #20
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