A kick-butt camera is looming

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Charles Schuler, Oct 12, 2004.

  1. The EOS 20D has a 22.5 mm X 15 mm sensor. Scale that up to full-size (35
    mm) and you get 20 megapixels with the current sensor density. The ISO and
    noise performance with the current sensor are both very good. Give Canon 1
    to 2 more years and I'd bet a prosumer 35 mm, 20 MP SLR camera will be
    available for $2000 U.S., or less. The heck with EF-S lenses. I'm going to
    wait a while.
    Charles Schuler, Oct 12, 2004
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  2. Charles Schuler

    Phil Wheeler Guest

    Looming? Sounds scary to me.
    Phil Wheeler, Oct 13, 2004
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  3. Charles Schuler

    Bill Crocker Guest

    My wife kicks my butt every time I buy a digital camera...now the cameras
    going to kick it too?

    Bill Crocker
    Bill Crocker, Oct 13, 2004
  4. Charles Schuler

    Larry Guest

    I agree, whole-heartedly. I think the "Pixel race" is a zero sum game. As
    long as they dont increase the sensor size along with the pixel count, they
    havent improved much of anything.

    I'de be using a D-Rebel (with the Russian firmware hack) right now if it
    weren't for the fact that I couldn't keep the dirt out of it long enough to
    do a days work with it. 6mp is fine with me as long as I get the low noise.

    Even when I left the lens mounted all day long, the dirt and dust inherent in
    my work got inside the camera, and screwed it up. (if you have read any of my
    earlier posts you know its HORSE SHOWS that I shoot, "up-close & Personal" as
    ABC sports used to say, right where the dung, the dust, and the dirt is). The
    seal of the lens mount may be "LIGHT TIGHT" but its not "Air Tight". It was a
    big problem with film SLRs too but the back could be opened for cleaning, and
    the film got advanced with every shot, taking any dirt on the sensor (film)
    with it.

    The dust produced by the steel and aluminum shod feet of hundreds of 1000 to
    2000 pound horses grinding the footing all day long can turn the air from
    dust free to dust saturated in a matter of the first two hours of the first
    day of a three or four day show. The dust produced is finer than talcum (and
    MUCH lighter) and permeates EVERYTHING in the general vicinity. Most riders
    who wouldn't be seen outside the show ring with glasses will wear them
    instead of contacts because of the dust or they will go in sans lenses of any
    kind. The dust causes BIG problems with cameras, computers and printers
    (mostly, its dried horse dung, and stone dust, the actual footing is nearly
    dust-free except for what blows in or is carried in by the horses in most

    The D-Rebel I used was new, and I got it cleaned TWICE and returned it to its
    owner, but I was saddened to have to go back to the P&S SLR-LIKE cameras
    because of the dust problem. The dust seems to stay on the outside with them
    (Sony F717 Sony F828, Fuji S7000) and they have needed cleaning on the inside
    only once in the past year.

    I am thinking about the "Ultra-Sonic self cleaning" cameras with the adhesive
    patch to catch the dust. If that adhesive patch is user replaceable, it might
    sell me a camera. If it is not user replaceable, it will probably "fill up"
    in one or two days of shooting.

    For my money (and my use) the perfect camera would have the lens performance
    of the Sony F-828 and the sensor size and performance of at least the Digital
    Rebel. That combination would achieve my goals.. Less noise with less flash
    needed in low light...It also would probably be a heavy hunk of equipment,
    matching that lens to that sensor size, but worth the work of carrying it
    around. Give me that camera, without changeable lenses for the price of a
    Digital Rebel (before discounts), and you've made a sale, even if its more
    expensive than the low end DSLRs. (My Sony 828 was $200 more than the Digital
    Rebel with the Kit lens at the same store when I bought it, but I bought it
    anyway as, having used one, I knew it could survive the average weekend or 3
    to 4 day show).

    Using a flash powerfull enough to "get the picture" at a low ISO setting is
    problematic at a horse show, it will anoy either the Judges, the horses or
    the riders, and using a higher ISO on a P&S usually gets you a picture that
    is NOT saleable, or at least not the quality I want to present, even after
    noise reduction by even the BEST software available.

    Am I the only person out here who wants the manufacturers to STOP chasing
    pixels and start IMPROVING pixels???
    Larry, Oct 13, 2004
  5. Charles Schuler

    Phil Wheeler Guest

    Aside from all that (the minor matter of cost!), who really needs it?
    Would I rather have a 1DsMkII (assuming $8000 was chump change to me) or
    my 20D? The latter for my use. Heck, I can get two weeks of shots on
    4-6 GB of CF; that would double with the 16 mp camera -- as would the
    weight and bulk of what I carry around.

    Phil Wheeler, Oct 13, 2004
  6. Huh? Double the weight and bulk? I obviously missed something here. CF
    cards are small and weigh next to nothing compared to batteries, cameras,
    external flashes, and lenses. Please help me understand your point. (Not
    being a smart ass ... I obviously missed something here).
    Charles Schuler, Oct 13, 2004
  7. Charles Schuler

    JohnR Guest

    No problem with lenses. For example, if the 6Mp dRebel had a full frame
    sensor (as 35mm film), and the same pixel density, it would be a 15 MP
    camera. Even the consumer lenses have no problem exceeding the sensors
    resolution (stopped down). A 20MP sensor has only 25% more pixels.
    JohnR, Oct 14, 2004
  8. Charles Schuler

    Larry Guest

    I thought about a "Dive" rig for the camera, but it just seemed like too
    much hassle for the use I'de get.

    Like I said, my pictures sell quite well now, and I pretty much have until
    April to decide which way to go.

    Ive gotta get off my butt and check put the "ultra-sonic" self cleaning
    system, which could be a solution.

    Then again, as todays posts have shown, there are more and more cleaning
    devices showing up all the time, for all the DSLRs (the one of those that
    scares me is the one that charges up a brush before you touch the CCD or CMOS
    sensor... ON PURPOSE???? must work, but it scares me)
    Larry, Oct 14, 2004
  9. Charles Schuler

    Big Bill Guest

    If I could afford the 1Ds MK II, I'd also be able to afford the new
    lenses that would *have* to go with it. :)
    See? More weight & bulk. (That was easy. I *love* spending money.)

    Bill Funk
    Change "g" to "a"
    Big Bill, Oct 17, 2004
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