ACR NEF mistake?

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by Sosumi, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. Sosumi

    Sosumi Guest

    When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture. That
    is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or View NX.
    Obviously, ACR can't read all information that Nikon software can. I
    consider this a major flaw, because you have no way of ever editing these
    files in PS or LTR.

    Maybe it's time for an update, Adobe?
    Sosumi, Jan 29, 2008
    1. Advertisements

  2. Sosumi

    tomm42 Guest

    It really isn't a big deal, ACR is very flexible and much quicker than
    any of the Nikon products. Properly calibrated ACR does a very good
    job. The only gripe I have is that a slightly underexposed file will
    have a little more noise when processed in ACR, proper exposure, there
    is no problem. As to bracketing, ACR will show all brackets as will
    Bridge which I use as my original viewing program. I have been using
    ACR for the 2 years I have had my D200, tried Capture NX and decided,
    though it had some interesting features it didn't give much more than
    a well calibrated ACR. I have had excellent response to the work I
    have done with the D200.

    tomm42, Jan 29, 2008
    1. Advertisements

  3. Sadly Capture NX is a major resource hog and isn't laid out for optimum
    workflow. NX does a nice job of processing RAW so much better than ACR,
    but isn't a practical solution. Even getting a free copy of NX with my D3,
    I still feel like I overpaid and was cheated. I would have preferred an AC
    adapter. For general purpose shooting ACR is the way to go. When you need
    some serious correction on an image you are better off with NX.

    Rita Berkowitz, Jan 29, 2008
  4. Sosumi

    Sosumi Guest

    I agree, it's far too slow. On Windows it depends on the Framework NET stuff
    that should have been outlawed.
    The other night I had 66 pictures in a batch process just sharpened and
    saved again: 30 minutes at least!
    But some things are just so darn good in NX, that ACR just can't even come
    close. The control point is a very good example.

    The picture I made was of a "black rose"; one of the most difficult objects
    to make a good picture of. I made a multi exposure with auto gain, combined
    with auto bracketing. in total 9 pictures in one frame. The result just took
    my breath away; finally after trying with about 6 different dig. camera's
    and months and a lot of roses ;-)
    In NX View and Capture: no problem, but when I tried to open it in PS it was
    just another far too black and dark rose. I wanted to use some filters that
    are not possible in NX, so I ended up saving it as a TIFF and then I worked
    on it in PS.

    Mostly I zip thru my pictures and pick the ones that look good, which isn't
    that many on a given day, so I really don't have so much to change and
    adjust anymore. It would be a different story if I had to process hundreds
    of pics every day ;-)

    But I agree, Capture should be included with all Nikons, because it's
    virtually an extension of the camera. Maybe some they they'll turbo boost it
    and allow to use third party filters like the ones for PS.
    Sosumi, Jan 29, 2008
  5. Sosumi

    Paul Furman Guest

    Exposure bracketing only produces one NEF file?
    Paul Furman, Jan 29, 2008
  6. Sosumi

    Sosumi Guest

    Combined with multiple exposure: yes! (oops: I wrote multi)

    Problem seems to be, that NX View and Capture take the control points and
    other settings in consideration, while ACR can't or won't.
    Sosumi, Jan 29, 2008
  7. Sosumi

    Robert Brace Guest

    What type of bracketing are you attempting? Exposure, flash or white
    Normally, each push of the shutter (in single frame mode) produces one
    exposure. That means a uniquely numbered exposure for each push. If you
    set it for 3 exposures (normal, -1, +1) you get 3 separately numbered
    frames. White balance bracketing would produce the 3 frames with a single
    shutter push, but still 3 separately numbered frames.
    Now viewing these frames in Bridge or ACR (except if shooting NEF, you
    can't do white balance bracketing) you will see each separate frame the same
    as if you weren't bracketing.
    There is no "only recognizing the first frame" as each frame is a
    separate exposure as it normally would be.
    What are we missing here?
    Robert Brace, Jan 29, 2008
  8. Sosumi

    Sosumi Guest

    I'm talking about a combination of exposure bracketing with multiple
    exposure, both set to 9 frames. So what you get is *one* picture made of 9
    different exposures.
    After I worked on it in NX Capture, I wanted to add some filter effects in
    PS, but all the nice things I added in NX were lost in PS or better: not
    recognized by ACR.
    in NX Capture and NX View you see at the camera settings that it's a 9 frame
    picture: in ACR you don't have this information.
    Sosumi, Jan 30, 2008
  9. Sosumi

    Paul Furman Guest

    Why? Unless it's an HDR type composite, the exposures will just average
    out and the main difference would be less noise like people do for astro
    imaging, right?
    I wouldn't expect ACR know whatever tricks Nikon or any company does.
    That's not any sort of standard exif data. Those are NX features, not
    ACR features.
    Paul Furman, Jan 30, 2008
  10. Assuming the D300 is the same as the D3, there is no
    such thing as "a combination of exposure bracketing with
    multiple exposures".

    You can use "exposure bracketing", which will give you 9
    different images, each with a different exposure; or you
    can use "multiple exposures", which will give you 1
    image made up of a combination from 9 separate

    If you first set bracketing, you can then set multiple
    exposures but it will automatically reset the bracketing
    to 0 frames. And if you first turn on multiple
    exposures, you cannot access bracketing to set it until
    multiple exposures is off. (You can further test that
    by setting bracketing to some non-zero value, then turn
    on multiple exposures followed by turning it off... and
    checking the bracketing again, which will now be 0F.)

    Hence I assume that what you actually have done is
    enabled multiple exposures, fired off 9 shots, and
    therefore have one NEF file generated from those 9
    exposures. Is that correct?

    If you continued to make exposures after that, without
    changing either the bracketing or the multiple
    exposures, those options will both be OFF as of the 9th
    exposure above. Following exposures will generate their
    own NEF files, none of which will be either bracketed or
    made up of multiple exposures. Is that what you are
    I'm not specifically familiar with any of that software.
    It doesn't appear to actually be a software problem,
    other than perhaps one program is not showing you as
    much of the Exif data as the others. But that does
    *not* change what the images are.

    I take it that you are working with the NEF files
    produced. You should be able to convert them to an
    image format using virtually any RAW conversion
    software, and then save the resulting file in whatever
    format (JPEG, TIFF, PPM, etc) format you choose for
    further editing with PS.
    Does that make any difference? That's just a matter of
    presentation of Exif data, not a difference in what the
    images are or are not.

    Here's a fairly simple test you can make to verify what
    you are getting. Do this with an empty CF card in the

    1) Set bracketing to 9 frames.
    2) Set multiple exposures to 9 frames.
    3) Make 8 exposures, and note that the light
    indicating that it is writing to the CF card
    does *not* go on.
    4) Make the 9th exposure, and note that the
    light now goes on indicating that it is
    writing to the CF card. Wait for it to
    finish and the light to go off.
    5) Check the bracketing, by pushing down the
    BKT button, and note that the display says
    6) Make one more exposure, again noting that
    the light again goes on. Wait for the light
    to extinguish.

    You can now take the CF card out, and download the two
    images. If you have something like /exiftool/ to look
    at the Exif data you will discover that the first image
    indicates it was made with multiple exposures, while the
    second image was not, and that both images used exactly
    the same exposure (there was no bracketing).
    Floyd L. Davidson, Jan 30, 2008
  11. Sosumi

    Sosumi Guest

    Darn! You're right! I don't know how I screwed this up, but I could swear I
    had that combination. Specially since I finally got a very good shot with
    it. So I guess I'll try some "hand made" bracketing with multiple exposure.
    Since that does work, I wonder why it can not be used together?
    Someone told me it would not be any different than a single shot, but I'm
    thinking the camera might still get a little more dynamic range. What do you
    Sosumi, Jan 30, 2008
  12. Sosumi

    me Guest

    FWIW, The D300 does not state this, as it does in the D200 manual giving
    the impression bracketing may have been enabled.
    That would be my guess as well in either case.
    I'm going to hazard a guess the difference is that NX will use the in
    camera settings as it's starting place while ACR does not. That is what
    gives the difference.
    me, Jan 30, 2008
  13. Well, what you apparently want (where you set both to 9,
    press the shutter release 9 times and each one has a
    different exposure setting, which are then all averaged
    to one frame), is not worth much.

    It either adds or averages all of the exposures.
    Changing some of them just doesn't make much difference
    if the average is still the same.

    That doesn't change the dynamic range in the sense that
    can be done by taking parts from one or parts from
    another, but it does expand dynamic range in a different
    way though. By reducing the amount of noise at the low
    end, which will not add up at the same linear rate that
    the light from the scene will. That gives you a higher
    Signal To Noise Ratio, which essentially means a more
    useful dynamic range.

    And that *really* does work too!. Try it two ways,
    first averaging, and then just adding. Set your camera
    (on a tripod) to its highest ISO and make an exposure of
    some place that has a lot of dim areas where noise will
    be very obvious. Then set it for multiple exposures and
    averaged 8 to 10 exposures. The difference in noise
    will be astounding.

    But now if you want to just blow your mind out... set
    it to add the exposures. Except now you have to do a
    bit of fiddling. If your ISO is set to 6400 and you
    added two exposures, that would be twice the light, so
    it would over expose by 1 fstop. Use manual exposure,
    and adjust the actual exposure down by an amount that
    depends on how many exposures you'll be adding. (I
    guess you could also use exposure compensation, and
    still use one of the programmed exposure settings.)

    To get the exposure right with the camera set for ISO
    6400, set multiple exposures for 8... and then cut the
    actual exposure back by 3 fstops. Essentially you are
    not shooting ISO 6400, but at ISO 50,400.

    The noise however will be about equivalent of what you'd
    get at ISO 6400.
    Floyd L. Davidson, Jan 30, 2008
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.