Adams on 35mm

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by Michael Scarpitti, Dec 22, 2003.

  1. I just looked up in 'the Negative' what Adams has to say about
    miniature film development.

    Page 88:
    "The Problem of Grain
    The principal consideration is: How should the miniature negative be
    developed to preserve optimum scale of values and optimum refinement
    of grain structure? We know that fineness of grain is limited in
    relation to the resolu. tiOll of the optical image; with anything
    smaller than the optimum grain size a .'halo" of colloidal silver is
    produced, which actually reduces definition. (For discussion of grain
    size and the illustration of definition, see Book 1, page 35.)"

    Here Adams admits that considerations of graininess are paramount in
    35mm work.

    Page 89:
    "Since grain becomes coarser with increased development, the basic
    procedure should be founded on ample exposure and moderate
    development. For any given film and developer apparent grain size
    seems definitely related to gamma. Con- temporary opinion holds that
    negative granularity depends on two major factors: the graininess of
    the particular film and the degree of development (gamma). Granting
    this true in the broadest sense, we still must consider the effects of
    special developers-such as paraphenylene-diamine and formulas
    containing silver solvents."

    Here Adams tells us that graininess increases with development. No
    surprises here.

    Page 89:
    "Miniature camera negatives are always enlarged with condenser
    enlargers."

    Pge 91:

    "You may find that placing sunlit skin on Zone V II and developing for
    2/3 the "normal" (recommended) time gives satisfactory grain but
    perhaps fairly flat highlights on No.2 paper. On the other hand,
    placement on Zone V with 1 1/4 normal development time may give
    well-separated highlight values but more grain than is desirable. But
    normal placement with less than normal development and use of a No.3
    paper may give exactly the emotional and physical results you seek.
    From such tests you can develop an awareness of the practical limita-
    tions of any given combination of film, exposure, development, and
    printing. It is all a very subtle matter of personal decision, and
    cannot be evaluated in factual terms, nor determined by anyone other
    than the individual photographer.
    Since fine-grain development reduces emulsion speed, a test for
    effective threshold should be made under your normal conditions of
    processing. The com- monplace "empty" shadows seen in so much
    miniature photography are due chiefly to reduced emulsion speed-though
    they may result from excessively short development, which does not
    ensure adequate distinction of values in the toe of the curve. These
    and other undesirable effects may be avoided by recognizing and
    allowing for the limitations of miniature photography.

    In work with miniature films there is much less leeway in altering
    development procedures for special purposes than with larger
    negatives. Therefore, visualization should not include reliance on
    special controls that may adversely affect grain size."

    These points coincide with the statements I have made in the thread on
    variable film development.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 22, 2003
    #1
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  2. Michael Scarpitti

    Frank Pittel Guest

    : I just looked up in 'the Negative' what Adams has to say about
    : miniature film development.

    : Page 88:
    : "The Problem of Grain
    : The principal consideration is: How should the miniature negative be
    : developed to preserve optimum scale of values and optimum refinement
    : of grain structure? We know that fineness of grain is limited in
    : relation to the resolu. tiOll of the optical image; with anything
    : smaller than the optimum grain size a .'halo" of colloidal silver is
    : produced, which actually reduces definition. (For discussion of grain
    : size and the illustration of definition, see Book 1, page 35.)"

    : Here Adams admits that considerations of graininess are paramount in
    : 35mm work.

    : Page 89:
    : "Since grain becomes coarser with increased development, the basic
    : procedure should be founded on ample exposure and moderate
    : development. For any given film and developer apparent grain size
    : seems definitely related to gamma. Con- temporary opinion holds that
    : negative granularity depends on two major factors: the graininess of
    : the particular film and the degree of development (gamma). Granting
    : this true in the broadest sense, we still must consider the effects of
    : special developers-such as paraphenylene-diamine and formulas
    : containing silver solvents."

    : Here Adams tells us that graininess increases with development. No
    : surprises here.

    : Page 89:
    : "Miniature camera negatives are always enlarged with condenser
    : enlargers."

    : Pge 91:

    : "You may find that placing sunlit skin on Zone V II and developing for
    : 2/3 the "normal" (recommended) time gives satisfactory grain but
    : perhaps fairly flat highlights on No.2 paper. On the other hand,
    : placement on Zone V with 1 1/4 normal development time may give
    : well-separated highlight values but more grain than is desirable. But
    : normal placement with less than normal development and use of a No.3
    : paper may give exactly the emotional and physical results you seek.
    : From such tests you can develop an awareness of the practical limita-
    : tions of any given combination of film, exposure, development, and
    : printing. It is all a very subtle matter of personal decision, and
    : cannot be evaluated in factual terms, nor determined by anyone other
    : than the individual photographer.
    : Since fine-grain development reduces emulsion speed, a test for
    : effective threshold should be made under your normal conditions of
    : processing. The com- monplace "empty" shadows seen in so much
    : miniature photography are due chiefly to reduced emulsion speed-though
    : they may result from excessively short development, which does not
    : ensure adequate distinction of values in the toe of the curve. These
    : and other undesirable effects may be avoided by recognizing and
    : allowing for the limitations of miniature photography.

    : In work with miniature films there is much less leeway in altering
    : development procedures for special purposes than with larger
    : negatives. Therefore, visualization should not include reliance on
    : special controls that may adversely affect grain size."

    : These points coincide with the statements I have made in the thread on
    : variable film development.

    You do of course leave out the fact that Adams thought the use of the zone
    system to be important even with 35mm and that he himself used the zone system
    with 35mm.

    I do like this part of your qoute:
    : The com- monplace "empty" shadows seen in so much
    : miniature photography are due chiefly to reduced emulsion speed-though
    : they may result from excessively short development, which does not
    : ensure adequate distinction of values in the toe of the curve.

    It discribes the drek you posted on your website and used to brag about.
    Whatever happened to you website of crap??
    --




    Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
     
    Frank Pittel, Dec 22, 2003
    #2
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  3. Where's yours?
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 22, 2003
    #3
  4. What does 'using the zone system' mean, Frank, huh? This is about
    VARIABLE FILM DEVELOPMENT ON MINITAURE FILM. Can you read? I don't
    care if you 'use the zone system', whatever the hell that means. If
    you VARY the development and give longer times to increase contrast,
    you get obnoxious grain. Even Adams says so.

    That's the topic of discussion.



    Using grade #3 paper and reduing development is a standard technique
    for 35mm users, unless you're a zonehead and don't know any better, or
    worse, don't care.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 22, 2003
    #4
  5. Michael Scarpitti

    Frank Pittel Guest

    : > : I just looked up in 'the Negative' what Adams has to say about
    : > : miniature film development.
    : >
    : > : Page 88:
    : > : "The Problem of Grain
    : > : The principal consideration is: How should the miniature negative be
    : > : developed to preserve optimum scale of values and optimum refinement
    : > : of grain structure? We know that fineness of grain is limited in
    : > : relation to the resolu. tiOll of the optical image; with anything
    : > : smaller than the optimum grain size a .'halo" of colloidal silver is
    : > : produced, which actually reduces definition. (For discussion of grain
    : > : size and the illustration of definition, see Book 1, page 35.)"
    : >
    : > : Here Adams admits that considerations of graininess are paramount in
    : > : 35mm work.
    : >
    : > : Page 89:
    : > : "Since grain becomes coarser with increased development, the basic
    : > : procedure should be founded on ample exposure and moderate
    : > : development. For any given film and developer apparent grain size
    : > : seems definitely related to gamma. Con- temporary opinion holds that
    : > : negative granularity depends on two major factors: the graininess of
    : > : the particular film and the degree of development (gamma). Granting
    : > : this true in the broadest sense, we still must consider the effects of
    : > : special developers-such as paraphenylene-diamine and formulas
    : > : containing silver solvents."
    : >
    : > : Here Adams tells us that graininess increases with development. No
    : > : surprises here.
    : >
    : > : Page 89:
    : > : "Miniature camera negatives are always enlarged with condenser
    : > : enlargers."
    : >
    : > : Pge 91:
    : >
    : > : "You may find that placing sunlit skin on Zone V II and developing for
    : > : 2/3 the "normal" (recommended) time gives satisfactory grain but
    : > : perhaps fairly flat highlights on No.2 paper. On the other hand,
    : > : placement on Zone V with 1 1/4 normal development time may give
    : > : well-separated highlight values but more grain than is desirable. But
    : > : normal placement with less than normal development and use of a No.3
    : > : paper may give exactly the emotional and physical results you seek.
    : > : From such tests you can develop an awareness of the practical limita-
    : > : tions of any given combination of film, exposure, development, and
    : > : printing. It is all a very subtle matter of personal decision, and
    : > : cannot be evaluated in factual terms, nor determined by anyone other
    : > : than the individual photographer.
    : > : Since fine-grain development reduces emulsion speed, a test for
    : > : effective threshold should be made under your normal conditions of
    : > : processing. The com- monplace "empty" shadows seen in so much
    : > : miniature photography are due chiefly to reduced emulsion speed-though
    : > : they may result from excessively short development, which does not
    : > : ensure adequate distinction of values in the toe of the curve. These
    : > : and other undesirable effects may be avoided by recognizing and
    : > : allowing for the limitations of miniature photography.
    : >
    : > : In work with miniature films there is much less leeway in altering
    : > : development procedures for special purposes than with larger
    : > : negatives. Therefore, visualization should not include reliance on
    : > : special controls that may adversely affect grain size."
    : >
    : > : These points coincide with the statements I have made in the thread on
    : > : variable film development.
    : >
    : > You do of course leave out the fact that Adams thought the use of the zone
    : > system to be important even with 35mm and that he himself used the zone system
    : > with 35mm.
    : >
    : > I do like this part of your qoute:
    : > : The com- monplace "empty" shadows seen in so much
    : > : miniature photography are due chiefly to reduced emulsion speed-though
    : > : they may result from excessively short development, which does not
    : > : ensure adequate distinction of values in the toe of the curve.
    : >
    : > It discribes the drek you posted on your website and used to brag about.
    : > Whatever happened to you website of crap??



    : Where's yours?

    My what? Still no URL for your website?? People around the world want to
    see the type of photos that you think that everyone should be taking. What
    happened to the demonstration of the results of the scarpitti method??
    --




    Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
     
    Frank Pittel, Dec 22, 2003
    #5
  6. [Quoting Adams:]
    Notice he says there's "much less leeway in altering development procedures",
    meaning extended or restricted development (N+, N-). Notice he does *not* say
    "no leeway", which is what you're claiming. So no, his points do *not*
    coincide with your extremist pronouncements.

    The main point he was making in the material you quoted could be summed up
    pretty well in his statement:

    These and other undesirable effects may be avoided by recognizing
    and allowing for the limitations of miniature photography.

    Nowhere does he say that one cannot use the Zone System with miniature
    photography.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Dec 22, 2003
    #6
  7. Michael Scarpitti

    Frank Pittel Guest

    : On 12/22/2003 6:37 AM Michael Scarpitti spake thus:

    : > I just looked up in 'the Negative' what Adams has to say about
    : > miniature film development.
    : >
    : > These points coincide with the statements I have made in the thread on
    : > variable film development.

    : [Quoting Adams:]

    : > In work with miniature films there is much less leeway in altering
    : > development procedures for special purposes than with larger
    : > negatives. Therefore, visualization should not include reliance on
    : > special controls that may adversely affect grain size."

    : Notice he says there's "much less leeway in altering development procedures",
    : meaning extended or restricted development (N+, N-). Notice he does *not* say
    : "no leeway", which is what you're claiming. So no, his points do *not*
    : coincide with your extremist pronouncements.

    : The main point he was making in the material you quoted could be summed up
    : pretty well in his statement:

    : These and other undesirable effects may be avoided by recognizing
    : and allowing for the limitations of miniature photography.

    : Nowhere does he say that one cannot use the Zone System with miniature
    : photography.

    Actually he says clearly that the zone system can be used with roll film (35mm included)
    and it's a fact that he indeed did use the zone system with 35mm.

    --




    Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
     
    Frank Pittel, Dec 22, 2003
    #7
  8. Michael Scarpitti

    Frank Pittel Guest

    : > : I just looked up in 'the Negative' what Adams has to say about
    : > : miniature film development.
    : >
    : > : Page 88:
    : > : "The Problem of Grain
    : > : The principal consideration is: How should the miniature negative be
    : > : developed to preserve optimum scale of values and optimum refinement
    : > : of grain structure? We know that fineness of grain is limited in
    : > : relation to the resolu. tiOll of the optical image; with anything
    : > : smaller than the optimum grain size a .'halo" of colloidal silver is
    : > : produced, which actually reduces definition. (For discussion of grain
    : > : size and the illustration of definition, see Book 1, page 35.)"
    : >
    : > : Here Adams admits that considerations of graininess are paramount in
    : > : 35mm work.
    : >
    : > : Page 89:
    : > : "Since grain becomes coarser with increased development, the basic
    : > : procedure should be founded on ample exposure and moderate
    : > : development. For any given film and developer apparent grain size
    : > : seems definitely related to gamma. Con- temporary opinion holds that
    : > : negative granularity depends on two major factors: the graininess of
    : > : the particular film and the degree of development (gamma). Granting
    : > : this true in the broadest sense, we still must consider the effects of
    : > : special developers-such as paraphenylene-diamine and formulas
    : > : containing silver solvents."
    : >
    : > : Here Adams tells us that graininess increases with development. No
    : > : surprises here.
    : >
    : > : Page 89:
    : > : "Miniature camera negatives are always enlarged with condenser
    : > : enlargers."
    : >
    : > : Pge 91:
    : >
    : > : "You may find that placing sunlit skin on Zone V II and developing for
    : > : 2/3 the "normal" (recommended) time gives satisfactory grain but
    : > : perhaps fairly flat highlights on No.2 paper. On the other hand,
    : > : placement on Zone V with 1 1/4 normal development time may give
    : > : well-separated highlight values but more grain than is desirable. But
    : > : normal placement with less than normal development and use of a No.3
    : > : paper may give exactly the emotional and physical results you seek.
    : > : From such tests you can develop an awareness of the practical limita-
    : > : tions of any given combination of film, exposure, development, and
    : > : printing. It is all a very subtle matter of personal decision, and
    : > : cannot be evaluated in factual terms, nor determined by anyone other
    : > : than the individual photographer.
    : > : Since fine-grain development reduces emulsion speed, a test for
    : > : effective threshold should be made under your normal conditions of
    : > : processing. The com- monplace "empty" shadows seen in so much
    : > : miniature photography are due chiefly to reduced emulsion speed-though
    : > : they may result from excessively short development, which does not
    : > : ensure adequate distinction of values in the toe of the curve. These
    : > : and other undesirable effects may be avoided by recognizing and
    : > : allowing for the limitations of miniature photography.
    : >
    : > : In work with miniature films there is much less leeway in altering
    : > : development procedures for special purposes than with larger
    : > : negatives. Therefore, visualization should not include reliance on
    : > : special controls that may adversely affect grain size."
    : >
    : > : These points coincide with the statements I have made in the thread on
    : > : variable film development.
    : >
    : > You do of course leave out the fact that Adams thought the use of the zone
    : > system to be important even with 35mm and that he himself used the zone system
    : > with 35mm.

    : What does 'using the zone system' mean, Frank, huh? This is about
    : VARIABLE FILM DEVELOPMENT ON MINITAURE FILM. Can you read? I don't
    : care if you 'use the zone system', whatever the hell that means. If
    : you VARY the development and give longer times to increase contrast,
    : you get obnoxious grain. Even Adams says so.

    After months of drooning on and on with lie after lie about the zone system
    not working and being a fraud you admit you don't even know what the zone system
    is!!


    --




    Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
     
    Frank Pittel, Dec 22, 2003
    #8
  9. Michael Scarpitti

    Frank Pittel Guest

    I just dug up my copy of The Negative by Ansel Adams and tried to look up the
    references made by scarpitti. The book I have has a copyright date of 1981
    and is the 22nd printing.


    : I just looked up in 'the Negative' what Adams has to say about
    : miniature film development.

    : Page 88:
    : "The Problem of Grain
    : The principal consideration is: How should the miniature negative be
    : developed to preserve optimum scale of values and optimum refinement
    : of grain structure? We know that fineness of grain is limited in
    : relation to the resolu. tiOll of the optical image; with anything
    : smaller than the optimum grain size a .'halo" of colloidal silver is
    : produced, which actually reduces definition. (For discussion of grain
    : size and the illustration of definition, see Book 1, page 35.)"

    I couldn't find this reference in the copy of the book that I have. In
    the book I have page 88 discusses exposures in zones and contrast and gamma.
    I looked through the book and couldn't find a section entitled "The problem
    of grain.


    : Here Adams admits that considerations of graininess are paramount in
    : 35mm work.

    I couldn't find any reference to your quote in the copy of the book I
    have.

    : Page 89:
    : "Since grain becomes coarser with increased development, the basic
    : procedure should be founded on ample exposure and moderate
    : development. For any given film and developer apparent grain size
    : seems definitely related to gamma. Con- temporary opinion holds that
    : negative granularity depends on two major factors: the graininess of
    : the particular film and the degree of development (gamma). Granting
    : this true in the broadest sense, we still must consider the effects of
    : special developers-such as paraphenylene-diamine and formulas
    : containing silver solvents."

    : Here Adams tells us that graininess increases with development. No
    : surprises here.

    : Page 89:
    : "Miniature camera negatives are always enlarged with condenser
    : enlargers."


    I can't comment on these quotes here since again I can't find any mention
    of it in the book that I have. In my book page 88 continues a discussion of
    gamma and contrast and then goes on to a section entitled comparing curves.
    No mention of grain. I looked through the book I have and couldn't find it
    anywhere in the book.

    : Pge 91:

    : "You may find that placing sunlit skin on Zone V II and developing for
    : 2/3 the "normal" (recommended) time gives satisfactory grain but
    : perhaps fairly flat highlights on No.2 paper. On the other hand,
    : placement on Zone V with 1 1/4 normal development time may give
    : well-separated highlight values but more grain than is desirable. But
    : normal placement with less than normal development and use of a No.3
    : paper may give exactly the emotional and physical results you seek.
    : From such tests you can develop an awareness of the practical limita-
    : tions of any given combination of film, exposure, development, and
    : printing. It is all a very subtle matter of personal decision, and
    : cannot be evaluated in factual terms, nor determined by anyone other
    : than the individual photographer.
    : Since fine-grain development reduces emulsion speed, a test for
    : effective threshold should be made under your normal conditions of
    : processing. The com- monplace "empty" shadows seen in so much
    : miniature photography are due chiefly to reduced emulsion speed-though
    : they may result from excessively short development, which does not
    : ensure adequate distinction of values in the toe of the curve. These
    : and other undesirable effects may be avoided by recognizing and
    : allowing for the limitations of miniature photography.

    : In work with miniature films there is much less leeway in altering
    : development procedures for special purposes than with larger
    : negatives. Therefore, visualization should not include reliance on
    : special controls that may adversely affect grain size."

    Once again I couldn't find this quote on page 91 nor could I find it in
    the book that I have.

    I did find a few quotes in the section entitled 35mm and roll film which
    starts on page 93.

    The section starts with:

    "Full control useing the Zone System requires individual processing of each negative,
    obviously not practical with roll films. It is a mistake however, to assume that the
    Zone System therefore '"does not work"' with roll-film cameras; since it is a
    practical expression of sensitometric principles, the Zone System remains valid,
    even though iss use is somewhat different."

    it then goes on with:

    "The absence of development control will mean a greater reliance
    on contrast controlthrought the use of paper grades in printing."

    It looks like both scarpitti and I were wrong when we stated that contrast
    control through paper grades were seperate from the zone system.

    He then made a point that development of more then N+1 or N+1 was not practical
    with "modern" film (of course that was modern then. Films such as Tmax were designed
    from the ground up to be used with the zone system and expansion and contraction
    of 35mm beyond those limits is possible.


    : These points coincide with the statements I have made in the thread on
    : variable film development.

    Sorry, I looked and couldn't find any of those quotes in the version of "The
    Negative" that I have. I did however find statements in which Ansel Adams makes
    it clear that the zone system is applicable to 35mm and roll film.
    --




    Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
     
    Frank Pittel, Dec 22, 2003
    #9
  10. [snip...]

    Can you say what year and edition your copy of "The Camera" and "The
    Negative" are? My copies of these books don't address those issues you
    mentioned - at least not on the pages you referred to.

    Severi Salminen
     
    Severi Salminen, Dec 22, 2003
    #10
  11. Try page 93 Second printing 1982/
    seems Like MS did not quote WFW, most of the point
    that he is trying to make.
     
    Gregory Blank, Dec 22, 2003
    #11
  12. Michael Scarpitti

    Norman Worth Guest

    Adams gives a pretty good summary of the problems of small negatives here.
    Fortunately, our films are somewhat better now, and the problems are
    somewhat less acute. The discussion (which is more extensive in the book)
    says nothing to invalidate the zone system, and, in fact, hints at ways to
    apply the ZS to the problem of miniature negatives.

    "The Negative" has been revised several times in various printings, so the
    exact quotes may not appear in everyone's copy. I found them, as given, in
    the revised 1968 edition, fourth printing.
     
    Norman Worth, Dec 22, 2003
    #12
  13. Adams was using considerable underststement.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 22, 2003
    #13


  14. You miss the 'spirit' of the whole damned thing.

    You people are unbelieveable. Absolutely unbelieveable.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 22, 2003
    #14
  15. We are talking about VARIABLE FILM DEVELOPMENT. The point he makes is that

    "in work with miniature films there is much less leeway in altering
    development procedures for special purposes than with larger
    negatives. Therefore, visualization should not include reliance on
    special controls that may adversely affect grain size."

    READ THAT UNTIL IT SINKS IN!
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 22, 2003
    #15
  16. You miss the 'spirit' of the whole damned thing.
    You are equally unbelievable.

    There are people who want to use Zone Sysytem with 35mm. And it can
    (still ;-) be done as we all know.

    There are people who want the minimal grain and maximal sharpness with
    35mm. They can achieve it by settling to grade 3 (or better, grade 5, of
    course).

    There are people who like the result when they underexpose like hell,
    develop their films for two days and print at grade 00. They can do it -
    no need to justify why.

    There are also people who want to use their 4x5" wooden field cameras
    for P&S shooting underwater. They can do it - and they don't have to
    justify to anyone why they photograph that way. For them _that_ is the
    perfect way to achieve the desired result, the print.

    It all is very simple. Many ways to achieve the "perfect" print. There
    is no one single answer. There is no single definition of what a
    "perfect print" means - neither in technical or contential (is that a
    word?) terms.

    Happy shooting ;)

    Severi Salminen
     
    Severi Salminen, Dec 22, 2003
    #16
  17. Michael Scarpitti

    Frank Pittel Guest

    : > On 12/22/2003 6:37 AM Michael Scarpitti spake thus:
    : >
    : > > I just looked up in 'the Negative' what Adams has to say about
    : > > miniature film development.
    : > >
    : > > These points coincide with the statements I have made in the thread on
    : > > variable film development.
    : >
    : > [Quoting Adams:]
    : >
    : > > In work with miniature films there is much less leeway in altering
    : > > development procedures for special purposes than with larger
    : > > negatives. Therefore, visualization should not include reliance on
    : > > special controls that may adversely affect grain size."
    : >
    : > Notice he says there's "much less leeway in altering development procedures",
    : > meaning extended or restricted development (N+, N-). Notice he does *not* say
    : > "no leeway", which is what you're claiming. So no, his points do *not*
    : > coincide with your extremist pronouncements.
    : >
    : > The main point he was making in the material you quoted could be summed up
    : > pretty well in his statement:
    : >
    : > These and other undesirable effects may be avoided by recognizing
    : > and allowing for the limitations of miniature photography.
    : >
    : > Nowhere does he say that one cannot use the Zone System with miniature
    : > photography.



    : You miss the 'spirit' of the whole damned thing.

    : You people are unbelieveable. Absolutely unbelieveable.

    Actually since he very clearly states that the zone system can be used with
    35mm and roll film. In fact he encourages it. It is you that misses not only
    what is clearly written, but the intent, meaning, and spirit.

    Once again lying through creative quoting out of context and lying about the context.
    --




    Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
     
    Frank Pittel, Dec 22, 2003
    #17
  18. Using the 'zone system' meanuing what? As usual, the term is
    meaningless.
    Are you talking about variable film development or not? If so, he
    says, quite clearly, that it can be used only on a very limited basis.
    Very limited. Does that register?
    You are the biggest liar I have ever encountered.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 23, 2003
    #18

  19. Of course it does. You avn't read.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 23, 2003
    #19
  20. Michael Scarpitti

    Jim Phelps Guest


    Thank You!!!

    Finally someone with the same message to MS as I tried on him so many
    months ago. Just said better.

    It's what I develop and use as a technique. Neither more correct or not
    than your own technique. Maybe I want grain in those shots. Maybe I want
    flat contrast. Maybe I want sharp contrast. Maybe you should understand
    that MY objective is not yours. Maybe you should wrap your brain around the
    idea that, while you are correct in your statements, they are not
    necessarily correct for everyone and situation. Maybe you should acquire
    tolerance and acceptance. Those two are integral parts of any art form!
    Including communication.

    Michael, to each their own. Live and let live. There is only one thing
    a person can be an absolute; an ass... You are not omnipotent. No one is.
    Like Frankie says (I think I used this last time too); "I did it my way".
    Let me and I'll let you.

    Jim
     
    Jim Phelps, Dec 23, 2003
    #20
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