Adams on 35mm

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by Michael Scarpitti, Dec 22, 2003.

  1. Michael Scarpitti

    ktphotonics Guest

    And if you haven't made your mind up yet about how the end result will look
    like, use XP2 :)

    Not quite so stupid as it sounds, but as luck will have it, some of my best
    images in the most technically demanding situations have been taken with
    either a Leica or Mamiya 7, loaded with XP2. The film curves of XP2 rolls
    off in the highlight section beautifully, capturing high contrast scenes
    with ease...and with little grain. Low contrast scenes can be a bitch
    though, unless you realise that XP2 can also be creatively developed!

    Chris Woodhouse ARPS
     
    ktphotonics, Dec 23, 2003
    #21
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  2. Ansel Adams: The Negative, Basic Photo Two, New York Graphic Society,
    basic copyright 1948, reprinted many times. This copy is the fourth
    printing, date unknown, but the dust jacket looks recent. Probably
    late 1970's-late 1980's.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 23, 2003
    #22
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  3. The queotes were scanned. They are indeed word for word. Check before
    you make a statement like that.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 23, 2003
    #23

  4. Jim:

    The point is this: who controls education about 35mm technique? It has
    slipped from the grasp of those who grew up with it to those whose
    expertise is in large format, at least initially, and whose biases are
    toward negative manipulation at the expense of image quality. I simply
    am trying to point out that varaible development is in general not the
    best way to approach 35mm work. The only reason it is even considered
    is that the old 35mm experts have died, and the people in influence
    have only zs (meaning varaiable film development) background, which is
    completely at odds with the ordinary requirements of 35mm work, for
    which different technique were long ago established.

    So, what I'm saying to the zoneheads is keep your hands off 35mm
    technique. We have our technique already, and it is indeed different,
    for the reasons Adams outlines. Variable film development is not the
    best technique, so quit telling unsuspecting beginners to do it.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 23, 2003
    #24
  5. Michael Scarpitti

    Jim Phelps Guest

    Mike,

    You can't force feed everyone. They'll just barf all over you, as so many
    have. I am not a dedicated, dyed in the wool Zonite. I do understand the
    technique, the reasoning and logic for it's teaching. I also do _not_
    believe there is one system for all purposes. Just as yours has merit and
    purpose, it is NOT the end to all means. Understanding of what the
    techniques are and what you will derive from them is the art we need to
    apply. I also do _not_ believe, you, as the patron saint of all fledgling
    photographers can change the minds of those rooted in their ways. Declaring
    all and out war on Zonites has made you an outcast and labeled you a loon.
    Your ability to get respect and your message across went out the door with
    your methodology. I seem to remember sending you personally this same
    message many months ago.

    FWIW, I do not own a LF - yet. Maybe someday.

    Jim
     
    Jim Phelps, Dec 23, 2003
    #25
  6. Michael Scarpitti

    Jorge Omar Guest

    Jim

    It's a lost case.

    Jorge
     
    Jorge Omar, Dec 23, 2003
    #26
  7. Michael Scarpitti

    Alexis Neel Guest

    (Michael Scarpitti) wrote in message > Using grade #3 paper and reduing development is a standard technique
    Sheesh. To hell with the print as long as the grain is fine.

    I swear, you never cease to amaze me with your comments.

    But thanks, I needed a laugh today.

    Alexis

    www.alexisneel.com
     
    Alexis Neel, Dec 23, 2003
    #27
  8. Michael Scarpitti

    Alexis Neel Guest

    (Michael Scarpitti) wrote in message >
    yes we are...now go away.
     
    Alexis Neel, Dec 23, 2003
    #28
  9. Michael Scarpitti

    Alexis Neel Guest


    Problem is he wants everyone to shoot "Boy pouring syrup" and is
    disapointed that you people can't see the brilliance of it.

    LOL!!!
     
    Alexis Neel, Dec 23, 2003
    #29
  10. Michael Scarpitti

    Alexis Neel Guest

    (Michael Scarpitti) wrote in message
    And developing for thin negs to only print on grade 3 isn't either,
    sport.

    You are the worst thing a beginner can listen to, and thats just a
    plain fact, so get over it and deal with it.
     
    Alexis Neel, Dec 23, 2003
    #30
  11. Michael Scarpitti

    Alexis Neel Guest

    (Michael Scarpitti) wrote in message
    Have you looked in a mirror lately???
     
    Alexis Neel, Dec 23, 2003
    #31
  12. Michael Scarpitti

    Alexis Neel Guest


    Maybe thats the problem. He's quoting from his "Boy pouring syrup" period.

    LOL!!!
     
    Alexis Neel, Dec 23, 2003
    #32
  13. Oh, come off it. Yet another unsupportable claim: that 35mm technique is now a
    "lost art", something on the order of pipe-organ building or stonemasonry, and
    the only practicioners are Zonehead newbies.

    You mean to tell us that there are no 35mm photojournalist types still
    teaching? None who have only (or mainly) used miniature format cameras? No HCB
    followers, even?

    I highly doubt it.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Dec 23, 2003
    #33
  14. The 'force feeding' is from the zoneheads. They believe there is one
    system for all purposes. They shove it down everyone's throat.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Dec 23, 2003
    #34
  15. Michael Scarpitti

    Frank Pittel Guest

    : > : > On 12/22/2003 6:37 AM Michael Scarpitti spake thus:
    : > : >
    : > : > > I just looked up in 'the Negative' what Adams has to say about
    : > : > > miniature film development.
    : > : > >
    : > : > > These points coincide with the statements I have made in the thread on
    : > : > > variable film development.
    : > : >
    : > : > [Quoting Adams:]
    : > : >
    : > : > > In work with miniature films there is much less leeway in altering
    : > : > > development procedures for special purposes than with larger
    : > : > > negatives. Therefore, visualization should not include reliance on
    : > : > > special controls that may adversely affect grain size."
    : > : >
    : > : > Notice he says there's "much less leeway in altering development procedures",
    : > : > meaning extended or restricted development (N+, N-). Notice he does *not* say
    : > : > "no leeway", which is what you're claiming. So no, his points do *not*
    : > : > coincide with your extremist pronouncements.
    : > : >
    : > : > The main point he was making in the material you quoted could be summed up
    : > : > pretty well in his statement:
    : > : >
    : > : > These and other undesirable effects may be avoided by recognizing
    : > : > and allowing for the limitations of miniature photography.
    : > : >
    : > : > Nowhere does he say that one cannot use the Zone System with miniature
    : > : > photography.
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : > : You miss the 'spirit' of the whole damned thing.
    : >
    : > : You people are unbelieveable. Absolutely unbelieveable.
    : >
    : > Actually since he very clearly states that the zone system can be used with
    : > 35mm and roll film. In fact he encourages it. It is you that misses not only
    : > what is clearly written, but the intent, meaning, and spirit.

    : Using the 'zone system' meanuing what? As usual, the term is
    : meaningless.
    : Are you talking about variable film development or not? If so, he
    : says, quite clearly, that it can be used only on a very limited basis.
    : Very limited. Does that register?

    : > Once again lying through creative quoting out of context and lying about the context.

    : You are the biggest liar I have ever encountered.

    You're talking stupid again.
    --




    Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
     
    Frank Pittel, Dec 24, 2003
    #35
  16. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    A really nice and inexpensive into to LF is the Speed Graphic.
    Of course I now recommend by-passing the 4X5 format and jumping right
    to 5X7.


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Dec 24, 2003
    #36
  17. Michael Scarpitti

    Jim Phelps Guest

    John,

    Thanks. It's not the camera holding me back. It's the Enlarger. I
    spent most of my mad money on a used Theremaphot ACP-302 and the seller
    threw in a CAP-40. No money for a Durst 1200 this year... I think 4X5 will
    be about all I need. The limitation is the size of the darkroom, and I
    haven't found "Darkroom Expansions" for sale on E-Bay -- Yet.... Although
    8X10 contact prints are pretty pretty...

    Jim
     
    Jim Phelps, Dec 24, 2003
    #37
  18. Michael Scarpitti

    Jim Phelps Guest

    I know. It was the benevolent Christmas spirit in me. Giving him one more
    chance.... Back to ignoring him and laughter...
     
    Jim Phelps, Dec 24, 2003
    #38
  19. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    Don't need the Durst right off of course. How about an Elwood
    ? $100 or less on Ebay.


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Dec 24, 2003
    #39
  20. Michael Scarpitti

    Alexis Neel Guest

    (Michael Scarpitti) wrote in message
    Replace zoneheads with Michael Scarpitti and that describes you to a T
     
    Alexis Neel, Dec 24, 2003
    #40
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