Advice Sought for VX2000 Modification or DVX100a

Discussion in 'Professional Video Production' started by Bob Williams, Jun 22, 2005.

  1. Bob Williams

    Bob Williams Guest

    I'm currently in a quandary because I plan to shoot a low-budget
    feature.

    I own a Sony VX2000. I had concerns about the audio and considered the
    BBC modification and am now considering the Winter modification.

    The modification costs $200 plus $360 for a Sound Devices MM-1 mixer or
    a $665 for the Sound Devices Mix-Pre mixer, plus shipping two ways.

    I live in Alaska so shipping isn't particularly cheap. So if I sink
    $750 into modifying the VX2000, would that money be better served if I
    bought a 24p DVX100a that doesn't have the same sound issues. Or am I
    further ahead with the modified VX2000?

    Sound is important. I'm planning on using Sennheiser K6/ME66/ME67 and
    will be shooting mostly outside.

    Am learning Avid Xpress DV 3.5 and want to be sure that I'm not in
    post-production working with junky sound.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

    Bob Williams
     
    Bob Williams, Jun 22, 2005
    #1
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  2. Bob Williams

    nap Guest

    I believe so.. but others may disagree.
    Not necessarily. I like the DVX100A. NO problems with correct use of the
    audio channels so far.
    Well. there are infinite levels of quality. Try the camera, listen to the
    audio. If it makes you happy. go for it. You can take this pretty far you
    know. Up until your accounts run dry.
     
    nap, Jun 22, 2005
    #2
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  3. I'd go for the dvx100 in fact i just have - from the JVC GYDV300 and the
    sound/picture is much better. I do events and fims and the sound is
    crucial! Go for the dvx100 you won't look back.
     
    Paul Harrison, Jun 22, 2005
    #3
  4. Why not just buy a digital audio recorder and shoot double system?

    Gary Eickmeier
     
    Gary Eickmeier, Jun 23, 2005
    #4
  5. Bob Williams

    Bob Williams Guest

    I'm new on the NLE scene and am learning as quickly as possible. My
    fear with the double system is the giant task of taking several hours
    of footage and having to later sync it in Avid Xpress DV 3.5. If I can
    get decent sound on the dv tape, I feel like the job will be more
    manageable. If double system is required in places, I'd like those
    places to be few and far between.

    Another glitch if I go for the DVX100a, is that I just realized that
    Avid Xpress DV 3.5 does not edit 24P and that I would have to upgrade
    to Avid Xpress DV Pro.

    Bottom line is that I'm just taking too long to make a movie. In the
    early 90s I bought a used Cinema Products 16mm camera with a Miller
    tripod and a movieola for around $1500 because I wanted to get some
    practice with the camera before shooting a feature film. The expense
    of shooting 16 mm made making the film out of reach. Two years ago, I
    bought a VX2000 because I wanted to get experience with it before
    shooting the film. It's somewhat disturbing to be looking at changing
    gears again. I don't want to become a video camera collector who is
    always trying to catch the next wave that's coming to shore.

    However, I saw the successful film Celebration that was shot on a one
    chip camera. I've seen good documentaries shot on the VX1000 and blown
    up to 35 mm and looked OK. What I haven't seen is anything successful
    that was shot and had horrible sound. Those films used separate sound.
    I'm hoping to get decent enough sound by either modifying my VX2000 or
    getting a DVX100a so I can get my first feature under my belt.

    So my decision is whether to modify the VX2000 that I own or upgrade to
    Avid Xpress Pro and purchase a DVX100a and then shoot in 24p.

    Thanks for those who have advised so far and thanks in advance to
    anyone who weighs in with an opinion in the future.

    Bob
     
    Bob Williams, Jun 23, 2005
    #5
  6. I don't really understand people who complain about the VX2000's sound.
    We shoot dance recitals and live plays, weddings, documentaries, record
    narration with it, even live musical events, and have no complaints.
    Just what exactly is your problem with the sound from the 2000 in making
    a "movie"?

    Gary Eickmeier
     
    Gary Eickmeier, Jun 23, 2005
    #6
  7. I think it all depends on how you record the sound and the type of sound you
    want.

    When doing a fim I often use a boom setup straight into the xlr input on my
    DVX100 and i don't have to worry about the connecting components being
    weakened etc that you could worry about with a mini-jack. I can also use
    long cable lengths without problems without worrying about interference and
    I can also run phantom powered mics.

    If i used a wireless setup i might not be so worried, but hey i don't have
    that sort of cash! I could use a seperate setup but i don't have the
    personnel or time for the issues related to that, i don't.

    By the way you don't have to shoot and edit in 24p - you can always shoot
    interlaced and edit on DV3.5. You can then worry about getting it printed
    to film - if that really is the broadcast format you need - later on. If
    you can afford to print to film then the extra you might need to process the
    footage ready for that is negligable.
     
    Paul Harrison, Jun 23, 2005
    #7
  8. Bob Williams

    Bob Williams Guest

    <Just what exactly is your problem with the sound from the 2000 in
    <making a "movie"? Gary Eickmeier

    Some of the hiss issues of the VX2000 have been documented on this
    forum when the VX2000 first came out. Greg Winter has detailed info on
    it at his site that I've listed below. It is an issue that was improved
    slightly in the VX2100 but not much. If I'm trying to shoot a feature
    and there is an underlying hiss that needs to be stripped out of all
    the audio in post, it seemed like it might be worth it to either modify
    the VX2000 so that issue goes away or to get a different camera that
    doesn't have that issue.

    Thanks for all the feedback. I appreciate the advice I receive from
    this forum.

    http://www.gregjwinter.com/modification2.htm

    Quoting from Greg Winter's web site:

    "Technical details on why audio is so poor quality on VX2000: (Only 6
    dB S/N improvement in stock VX2100)

    First - the siganls form both the 1/8" jack and the built in electret
    mic goes into this MA-386 board with a custom chip that adds all sorts
    of controls we don't need. Along with the features are noise and
    roll-off. Then if you look at the signal path that the camera mic OR
    line-in (1/8" jack) goes through to get to the VC-242... it goes to all
    over the place! Using a unshielded flat cable, no less. So there is
    lots of opportunity to pick up noise.

    This leads to 2nd reason... the VCA in the TRV-900, VX2000 and the
    PD150, is a cheap part (M5222FP)that has poor specs. To control the
    VCA, they use M623676P A/D converter that sends a voltage to the VCA's.
    In the VX2000, there is only one VCA used. My guess is that part of the
    problem with digital volume controls like this setup; there is noise in
    the analog control signal that controls gain and this noise gets into
    the analog signal - creating that HISS that everyone talks about
    hearing."
     
    Bob Williams, Jun 23, 2005
    #8
  9. Bob Williams

    nap Guest

    Why oh why do people who write these reviews guess so much?

    Given that the control signal for the VCA is a VERY slow signal I would hope
    they would have filtered it. But wouldn't it have been appropriate to
    measure the noise on the control signal? And the amp's response time? Could
    be the reviewer was wrong here.

    On the other points.. Why in the sam hell would anyone use ribbon cable for
    an audo input to a device with such hig freq components nearby? Shame on
    Sony. shame shame.. That probably accounts for the nasty motor noise I hear
    in the PD150 audio I have on a certain 40 hours of documentary footage.
     
    nap, Jun 23, 2005
    #9
  10. Well, FWIW, I don't hear any problems with my VX2000. Terrific camera.

    Gary Eickmeier
     
    Gary Eickmeier, Jun 23, 2005
    #10
  11. Bob Williams

    doc Guest

    does the dvx100a have individual channel volume controls or one general one
    for all channels?

    doc
     
    doc, Sep 18, 2005
    #11
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