Agfa Neutol

Through a local photo dealer, I have come into possession of some Agfa
Neutol paper developer in what looks like a 500ml or 1 litre size. The
fluid in the bottle seems to be dark coloured. Is this normal? The
dealer does not know how old it is, and he has more of it if I want it.
I have not used any of it yet, and am wondering if anyone has any
experience with this product.

 

Yes, the fluid is a dark orange. The working developer remains orange.

Nice paper developer. The only thing I don't like about it is that it
seems to exhaust much quicker than Dektol and Polymax.

 

Agfa sold a couple of liquid concentrate developers under the
Neutol name. The one I've been using is Neutol Plus which has no
Hydroquinone but rather Ascorbic acid. Its dark yellow and becomes
brownish orange. In my experience it lasts about as long as Dektol at
the 1:9 dilution but I may not print as much as Mike. It appears to be
clean working and does not deposit silver on the tray the way Dektol
does.
Beware that the yellow color distorts the gray scale of developing
prints even under an OC safelight.
Unfortunately, I think its not going to be available after current
stocks are gone.
There is also a Neutol developer for blue-black tones and a Neutol
warm tone developer. I have some of the warm tone developer but haven't
tried it yet.

Richard Knoppow

 

This bottle says 'Neutal Plus'.

I can get 6 bottles of it if I want it.

 

I use this Neutol Plus paper developer exclusively. While I agree that
it goes off faster in a tray than Dektol, I find that if after a
session (of say 2-3 hours) that I tip the contents back into an air
tight container that it lasts ages. I've been using the same mix for
about 4 x 3 hour sessions spread over a couple of months (say for a
total of about 35 lots of 8 x 10" prints).
When putting it back into a container, I top up the last 5-10mL with
water to exclude the air. (container isn't compressible, and I had
forgotton to use my glass marbles). BTW depending on the conc. you mix
up, it will be a medium to dark orange after diluting.

regards
Peter

 

Maybe not. I've seen some recent posts, some with e-mail from A&O (the
company that bought up the parts of Agfa that produce chemistry) as
evidence, claiming that they'll continue producing Rodinal and Neutol WA.
I've seen nothing explicit about Neutol Plus, but given that A&O plans to
continue producing other B&W chemistry, the odds for Neutol Plus look
fairly good. Here are some references:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=195041#post195041
http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?p=239886

Also and FWIW, if the thing you (generally, not just Richard) like about
Neutol Plus is that it's a phenidone/vitamin C (PC) developer, there are
several mix-it-yourself PC paper developer formulas, such as E-72 and
DS-14:

http://www.jackspcs.com/pde72.htm
http://silvergrain.org/Photo-Tech/print-dev-recommend.html

These aren't as convenient as a ready-made liquid concentrate, but they do
work and they are hydroquinone-free.

 

Fotospeed are selling a Hydroquinone free print developer called HF3 (liquid
concentrate) which I beleive also uses an Ascorbic acid derivative and
should make a suitable alternative.
Perhaps in the fullness of time Ilford may introduce a similar one. I would
certainly be interested in a Hydroquinone version of their DD-X film
developer if ever they consider it.

 

One thing I don't understand is what do people have a problem with
hydroquinone ? Ascorbates are nowhere near as stable and capable and
the toxicity is virtually irrelevant.

John

 

I`m inclined to agree with you John, but Agfa are finished and those who
like to use Neutol Plus may wish to find a similar print developer.
As for an Ascorbic acid film developer, a modified version of DD-X may be
attractive to those who want an alternative to Xtol supplied as a liquid
concentrate.
As you pointed out, there are concerns of stability as some people have
reported here of sudden losses of activity with Xtol.
My regular film developer is D-76 diluted 1+1 and my regular print developer
is Ilford Multigrade 1+9.
Cheers.

 

I have not used this stuff, while I still have some Bromophen mixed to
use up.

Both are history?

I may go back to mixing my own paper developer. I like Gevaert 252.

 

I`ve been thinking along those lines myself. I have bought the following raw
constituents from Rayco-Chemicals:
Sodium Hexametaphosphate.
Metol developing agent.
Hydroquinone.
Sodium Sulphite (anhydrous.)
Sodium Carbonate (anhydrous.)
Potassium Bromide.
My intention is to make my own Kodak D-163 print developer. I also bought a
Weigh station WS-500 electronic scale made by ON BALANCE (TM) which can
weigh up to 500g in 0.1g increments. The unit requires a 9V alkaline battery
or 9V 300mA Adaptor (optional.) The problem now is calibrating the scales.
The instructions read as follows:

1. Press "ON/OFF" to switch the scale on.
2. Press "UNIT" key for 3 seconds.
3. Display shows "CAL", then "CAL 0", then "LoAd" and "200g" alternately.
4. Load 200grams on the platform.
5. When weight is stable, display shows "LoAd" and "500g" alternatively.
6. Load 500grams on the platform, display shows "donE", then "500g".
7. The calibration is completed.
Then I can place a container (Tray, bag etc) on the platform and press the
"ZERO" key before weighing the components.

I don`t suppose anyone knows where I could buy an accurate 200 gram and 500
gram weights in the UK?

 

I use an ancient Ohaus.

Good enough for 1/2 gram accuracy.

I mix at least one gallon of everything, so I multiply the gram amounts
by 3.785

 

If banks in the UK still count coins by weighing them then
coins should be pretty accurate in aggregate even if they show
small sample to sample variations.

25 small 50p coins should weigh 200g.
40 20p coins should weigh 200g
100 20p coins should weigh 500g.

The Royal Mint has historically been very good in this regard.
In Canada, the RCM has been messing around with coin weights
in the last few years so you need to sort by date in order to
trust the weight of coins. If banks in the UK still weigh coins
than you should still be able to trust groups of coins as weights.

Bronze UK coinage weighs 55 grains (3.564 grams) per p. in case
you need Imperial weights.

Peter.

 

Try e-bay searching for 'Ohaus'.

 

Try e-bay searching for 'Ohaus'.

Here's exactly what you want:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ohaus-Triple-Be...582157845QQcategoryZ48726QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Do you mean a Hydroquinone _free_ version of DDX? DDX
is essentially a liquid concentrate version of Microphen. It
is similar to other Phenidone based concentrate developers
like Kodak T-Max.
Kodak Xtol is a Phenidone and Ascorbic acid developer.
Unfortunately, it seems to have a short term failure
problem. Kodak denies this but I've experienced it with the
5 liter size.

 

Bromophen seems to be alive and well. Ilford has a
published formula for a developer which is eseentially the
same, although probably not identical to the packaged stuff.

Ilford ID-62 (Stock Solution)

Water (at 125F or 52C) 750.0 ml
Sodium Sulfite, dessicated 50.0 grams
Hydroquinone 12.0 grams
Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous 60.0 grams
Phenidone 0.5 grams
Potassium Bromide 2.0 grams
Benzotriazole 0.2 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter

For paper dilute 1 part stock to 2 parts water.

Those familiar with Kodak D-72 (essentially the same as
Dektol) will recognize that this is a very similar developer
using Phenidone instead of Metol. It has similar
characteristics to the Metol and Hydroquinone developer but
tends to produce more neutral tones. It is a useful
developer for those with a Metol sensitivity.

 

I am aware of these formulae. I was talking about the packaged product
Bromophen. It seems to have excellent keeping properties, showing no
discoloration or loss of potency over long periods of storage in stock
solution.

I have not yet tried the Neutol Plus.

My personal favorite formulae are 54-D (Defender/duPont) and G252
(Gevaert).

 

FWIW, Defender 54D is exactly identical to Kodak D-73. These
developers are somewhat more active than D-72/Dektol and
were intended to produce blue-black tones on photofinishing
paper. Those who want cold tones on neutral tone paper
should give this formula a try.
Several of the Defender formulas are indentical to Kodak
ones. Kodak seems to have kept Defender alive for quite a
while perhaps because Defender helped to protect Kodak
against anti-trust action.
A unique Defender developer which I used a long time ago
when it was available packaged, is 55D. This has no exact
equivalent. It is a general purpose developer, a little less
active and more warm toned than Dektol. The basic formula
has quite a bit of Potassium bromide in it and Defender
recommended adding even more than specified below for warmer
tones.

Defender 55D Portrait Paper Developer (Stock Solution)

Water (at 125F or 52C) 500.0 ml
Metol 2.5 grams
Sodium sulfite, dessicated 37.5 grams
Hydroquinone 10.0 grams
Sodium Carbonate, dessicated 37.5 grams
Potassium Bromide 4.0 to 13.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter

For use dilute 1 part stock to 2 parts water.

Exposure should be timed so that development is complete in
1-1/2 to 2 minutes.
Shorter development yields warmer tones, longer development
cooler tones.

 

I have several old volumes of the Photo Lab Index and a volume called
Photographic Facts and Formulas by Wall, ed 1972.

I have every formula known to man. I have tried many of these paper
formulas, back in the 70's, and found little difference. I even used
amidol on Velour Black. Alrhough many people swear it's special, I
found almost no difference with amidol, though I never saw anything
better. I did like 54-D and G252 the best, hiwever, on duPont
materials.

I always believed that any benefit to amidol was simply that it was not
suppressed much by bromide, a property that phenidone shares, and for
that reason I recently began to use Bromophen, a phenidone-based
developer.