All-I and IPB video compression and other information.

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Brian, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. Brian

    Brian Guest

    It looks like a lot of people in this newsgroup like the technical side of
    video cameras so you might be interested in this.

    I don't know if this applies only to Canon DSLR cameras or other cameras
    but on the Canon DSLR cameras you have an two options of video compression
    when using the camera as a video camera.

    All-I (intra-coded frame)
    Each frame is compressed individually which is better for editing and is
    higher quality

    IPB (inter-predicted Bidirectional)
    This takes the info from one frame and if the subject does not move then it
    uses this info for other frames. Video is based on 1/15 key frame. The
    video quality is lower using this method but it saves file space.

    I'm not certain if these methods are totally different or similar to how
    video cameras compress data.

    I often wanted why DSLR cameras stopped video recording after 29 minutes
    and 59 seconds. I found out that this was to prevent the camera from being
    identified as a video camera to avoid paying more tax on it.

    On the Canon EOS D70 DSLR camera Canon has developer a new dual pixel CMOS
    AF sensor. This allows the camera to quickly jump to the correct focus and
    prevents the camera from hunting for the best focus. This makes the D70 a
    camera for use as a video camera. If the subject is walking towards the
    camera then the camera is able to keep the subject in focus where other
    DSLR cameras need to hunt for the change in focusing which causes the
    subject to briefly go out of focus.
    Brian, Dec 17, 2013
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  2. If you are looking for video image sharpness, the Panasonic
    G5, G6, and GH3 are still the best, and the first two can be
    downright cheap...;-) The GH3 can also do All-I, and all can
    shoot 1080-60P. The G5 and G6 have a zoom toggle on the body
    for controlling zooming with their two power-zoom lenses, the
    PZ 14-42mm and PZ 45-175mm (28-350mm-equivalent in 35mm-FF,
    which are *tiny* lenses). The G6 and GH3 provide mic inputs.
    The GH3 provides 50Mbps and 72Mbps video data rates. Being
    mirrorless, the eyelevel VFs remain active during video
    shooting. I originally went with Panasonic a year ago for
    video reasons, but since then I've shot 30,000+ still frames
    with my six Panasonic cameras and eleven lenses (financed by
    selling off my Nikon gear on Amazon...;-), and have mostly
    been ignoring video. Nikon and Canon offerings were generally
    inferior for video, and they are relatively too big and heavy
    for me to use now for either video or stills (the Panasonic
    gear is FUN to use instead of being "work"...;-). In a small
    outfit, I now have lenses that range from a full-frame
    180-degree fisheye to a "jaw-dropping" 4000mm equivalent.
    And, up to 1200mm equivalent (35mm-FF), I can hand-hold it
    successfully(!). This is not possible with the larger formats.
    While the GH3 has caught on with many users for pro work, an
    interesting new Panasonic is likely to appear fairly soon
    that looks likely to offer some spectacular new video-friendly
    features. (Called the GH7? Just my guess concerning the name!;-)
    David Ruether, Dec 18, 2013
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  3. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Looks like your a strong fan of Panasonic cameras David (I have nothing
    against Panasonic cameras).

    Canon and maybe Nikon are starting to realise that people buying dSLR
    cameras are using them more as a video camera so we are likely to see more
    development in the video side of the dSLR cameras.

    One unusual feature added to the Canon 70D camera is video snapshot. Using
    this feature the camera can record a 2, 4 or 8 second video recording. The
    video clips are connected in the camera and stored in a separate folder. It
    might be useful if you don't want to use too much of the media card for
    video recording. I had a 5 second recording option on my older mid 1990's
    video camera. It was useful for scenery shots such as buildings which
    beginners tend to record for longer periods.
    Brian, Dec 19, 2013
  4. More (which escaped "me feeble brain" earlier...): The GX7 also has
    excellent video; the G6 added focus-peaking; the G6 and GH3 can shoot
    video in all modes, including manual-mode (dunno if the GX7 also
    can do this).
    I prefer the best possible video output (Panasonic), and it is
    also nice when the best comes in a small package...;-) Some Nikon
    and Canon models also offer some features that are pro-oriented,
    but shot side-by-side (see the eoshd and Phillip Bloom sites for
    these comparisons), for image sharpness Panasonic has several
    offerings that easily beat these, with the possible "near-exception"
    of the $7,000 Canon DSLR body.
    Somehow that "feature" doesn't interest me very much...;-) One
    feature I would like, though, is better zooming ability. Currently
    only the Panasonic G5 and G6 (and possibly one or two Olympus bodies)
    offer electronic zooming controlled by a rocker on the body - but
    with the few variable-aperture not-quite-parfocal PZ lenses offered
    that can use this, exposure and focus "bobbling" during zooming is
    hard to avoid and very difficult to correct in post - and it looks
    terrible! Also, a really slow zoom rate is not possible. One can
    add external controls for focus and zooming, but these add much bulk
    and weight (a local pro has so many "add-ons" with his GH3 that it
    is hard to find the GH3 body inside the resulting big rig!). This is
    NOT what I want to use!;-)
    David Ruether, Dec 19, 2013
  5. Brian

    Brian Guest

    I'm often having zoom speed problems with my Sony video camera. If I move
    the zoom lever too much then I get a fast zoom rather than a slow zoom. It
    would be nice to have a button near the zoom lever that I could press if I
    wanted a slow zoom, maybe processional cameras have this. Manual zoom also
    would be a welcome option so I can zoom in by the exact amount I want when
    composing a picture.

    Talking of cameras I noticed a general lack of video cameras in photography
    stores. They seem to stock they low cost video cameras with limited
    features so I'm pleased I brought my Sony video camera when they were
    available. Do you find this the same in your part of the world?

    I feel all cameras have their pros and cons as my Sony HX200 camera has
    problem in panning at times there is some jitter in the picture as if the
    processor can't process the video fast enough.

    The main thing I have against DSLR cameras is the weight and the need to
    change lens for different situations where some video cameras are light to
    carry around. Noise in high ISO settings seems to be improving so maybe
    there will be less need for large heavy lens that have wide apertures.

    I read recently due to the size of the sensor in dSLR cameras it should be
    possible to do a 3 x digital zoom without losing video quality using a
    frame rate of 1920 x 1080. Some dSLR cameras offer digital zoom.

    We seem to live in a world these days where quality matters unlike the
    1970's; still technology has come a long way since those days.
    Brian, Dec 19, 2013
  6. The most of the various Panasonic video and still cameras have a
    menu selection for overall zoom speed, which when applied to the
    speeds available on the lens or camera toggles, give fairly slow
    (or rapid) zooming - but not the VERY slow zooming speed I like.
    The Canon HV (HDV-format) and Panasonic TM700 video cameras I had
    did provide a slow-speed zoom setting (and also generally smooth
    exposures) during zooming, but my current cameras do not, alas...
    This works well for setting framing with the still cameras, but
    manually zooming the lenses while shooting video is not very
    smooth without adding bulky additional gear...
    Here we now have no "real" camera/video stores, so I shop/buy
    With the Panasonic G5 and TM700, I could swing/rotate the cameras
    rapidly while shooting at 28Mbps 1080-60P and not have the effect
    you describe. Perhaps your SD card is too slow? Also, the processing
    is different (and of different capabilities) in different cameras,
    as are the included stabilizers (with my Sony Mini-DV camcorders, the
    image would "bounce at the stops" if handled roughly, but Canons of
    the time were more "liquid" - but used on a tripod, the Sonys were
    good with the stabilizer on, but the Canons would "swim" with the
    slightest bump). "Yer tayks yer chers...";-).
    Pick up a micro four-thirds camera, and, WOW!, it's light and
    tiny compared with ANY DSLR! These are FUN TO USE! I now laugh
    at the "monster" Canon/Nikon/Etc. gear since MFT is lighter/
    smaller/cheaper/better than those for most purposes now. The
    MFT lens lines are rapidly filling in, plus the best of the
    "monster" gear can also often be adapted for use on MFT bodies.
    I now have wide-angles from 180-degrees through "normal", teles
    (in VERY compact/light form) running up to 350mm-equivalent),
    teles running up to 2000mm-equivalent that are still physically
    easy to manage, one tele-zoom that gives me a hand-holdable(!)
    1200mm-equivalent(!) lens (and it's still compact/light/sharp),
    several ways to shoot macro close-ups, and now a 20mm-equivalent
    PC (perspective-control) lens. Lenses are also now available for
    MFT that open to f0.95(!). I - DON'T - MISS - MY - NIKONS ! 8^)
    The ONLY limitation I see with this new gear is with zooming
    while shooting video, and I miss that...
    See above, and the f0.95-f1.4 lenses are still fairly small and
    light...;-) The f2.8 zooms are FAR smaller and lighter than the
    equivalent lenses made for the larger formats. One can argue
    that you can shoot at higher ISOs with the larger formats, but
    one can argue that with MFT, you have a two-stop advantage in
    DOF for a given set of conditions to make up for that. I prefer
    universal DOF when possible (which is FAR easier to get with
    smaller formats), but some like limited DOF, which is somewhat
    easier to achieve with larger formats (but still possible with
    the extremely fast lenses offered for MFT, if desired...;-).
    The Panasonics do, and it can work well (sometimes even at full
    resolution - that's how I get 1200mm: the 100-300mm Panasonic
    zoom is equivalent to 200-600mm for FF-35mm; using 2X digital
    magnification [and with some work on the image afterward...],
    I can often get a 1200mm-equivalent image that is still
    sharp-looking at full 4608x3456 resolution, which can make a
    good-looking 16"x20" print - and I can hand-hold that lens
    used that way!;-). I get to 2,000mm-equivalent in an unexpected
    way (but with tripod only!;-). I kept my Nikkor 16mm *f3.5*
    since it works well on MFT, and my Nikkor 500mm f8 mirror
    which is "so-so" at best on MFT (but decent at 1920x1440
    resolution with some work). I recently tried an old Nikkor
    TC300 on the mirror, expecting it to be worse - but it worked
    quite well with some minor additions, and the results can
    look quite good at 2,000mm-equivalent, but limited to
    1920x1440 resolution (500mm x 2X for the format difference
    x 2X with the converter = 2,000mm-equivalent, and with
    digital in-camera 2X magnification and MUCH image work, an
    "adequate" 4,000mm-equivalent FL can be had from which a
    decent 8"x10" print can be made...;-). This would cost
    several tens of thousands of dollars to have with full-frame
    35mm, and you would need to hire people to help move it and
    set it up, whereas my rig fits on a normal shelf (upright;-),
    and it is easy to set up using a decent medium-weight tripod.
    Yes - and now here comes 4K video to "upset the apple cart"
    yet again...8^) BTW, if you want an email-sendable sample of
    something taken with MFT, holler (it would be 1920x1440 to
    keep the file size reasonable...). But, I request that it
    never be forwarded or published. Specify the approximate
    focal length of, and type of, the lens of interest...;-)
    David Ruether, Dec 19, 2013
  7. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Hi David.

    I'm not up
    with the play so I'm trying to understand what MTF means in your text.
    At the bottom of your text you suggested sending me a graphic file, what
    would the size be as I have a limit on what size I can receive as e-mail
    attachments. Did you mean you want me to tell you the focal length and type
    of lens or was this info you will tell me your your example. Thanks for the

    One things for certain id that there is no thing as the perfect camera.
    What camera I take with me depends on what type of photography I want to
    do. Unfortunately some of my older cameras are starting to become redundant

    Cameras seem to have become more complex and the ones that sell best are
    those that are easy to use. Often you want the camera to do something thats
    a feature of the camera but you can't remember how to turn it on. The
    cameras that you can custom to your own needs are popular with me. More
    buttons are appearing on cameras which is good to see as no one wants to
    hunt through a menu to switch on some feature when a button can do this
    more easier. Canon is starting to do this with their new range of cameras.

    Its a bit of a catch these days when you buy a dSLR camera as most come
    with lower quality kit lens and if you want good quality photos or video
    then you need to pay a lot for good quality lens. Also cameras claim to
    have better focusing system with many focus points but if you zoom in after
    the camera has calculated the focus, you find the zoomed in subject is out
    of focus. But at least stabilisers have improved for cameras.
    Brian, Dec 20, 2013
  8. "Micro Four Thirds" is a fairly recent new format that uses a
    sensor that is 1/4 the area of full-frame 35mm sensors (about
    1/2 the dimensions of 35mm on each side, but reproportioned
    to give a native 4:3 image proportion, hence its name...;-)
    MFT cameras are all mirrorless, and with that and the smaller
    sensor size, the cameras and lenses can be FAR smaller and
    lighter (and often FAR cheaper, too...;-). Look here to see
    just how small they can get while still providing high-quality
    Several makers offer lenses for MFT, often excellent and
    moderately-priced, but Panasonic and Olympus are the only
    suppliers of camera bodies. Of these two, Panasonic offers
    the ones that offer the best video quality (and better than
    all other makes of "still-cameras-that-can-shoot-video",
    regardless of size or price - and image-quality surpasses
    that of most dedicated video cameras, even VERY expensive
    ones(!). The "hitch, though is with zooming while shooting
    video, as noted above...
    I offer it also to anyone here: a reduced-size (to 1920x1440,
    2-to-5-megs in size, for emailing) "fixed" image taken with a
    focal-length and type of lens of interest to you (MFT lenses
    are 1/2 the focal-length of the equivalent lens for full-frame
    35mm for the same angle-of-view, so if a "normal" lens of
    interest to you is 50mm, that would be about 25mm in the MFT
    format, etc.). I have photos shot with MFT ranging from 7mm
    to 1,000mm (14 to 2,000mm 35mm FF-equivalent), including two
    fisheyes (7.5mm and 16mm, various macro options, and soon
    (I trust...;-), a 10mm shift lens... The MFT format has matured,
    with MANY lenses of almost all types now available for it, plus
    almost any other lens made can be adapted to MFT bodies (although
    auto-features will not work [manual-functions only...;-]), and
    many lenses that are good on their original formats often do
    not work well on MFT (but lenses in the 50-180mm range [100-360mm
    equivalent on MFT] generally do work well, especially around
    f5.6-8). One of these days I will get around to reviewing the
    lenses I'm familiar with on MFT bodies...;-) The above offer
    is made with the stipulation that photos I send are never
    forwarded or in any other way are provided to anyone else,
    except for showing on *your* computer.
    Yes - I have MANY nice Nikon film bodies that are now just
    "collector" pieces, I guess....8^{ There is no perfect camera,
    but within MFT, there are many different types available, with
    various collections of both good features and limitations. For
    me, I like the Panasonic LX7 as a great compact (FAST, SHARP
    lens, small, light, great rear-screen, etc.; the GF3 for very
    small, but with interchangeable lenses; the small G5 for general
    good handling and very good viewfinders; the small G6 for its
    added video features - and there are other bodies in the line
    that offer other advantages... Olympus offers bodies with the
    stabilizers built into the bodies, as does (not as well-done)
    the Pan. GX7). While the two MFT brands *can* exchange lenses,
    there are several incompatibilities in their characteristics
    that unfortunately make most cross-brand uses less than ideal...
    MFT has been doing this, with up to 6-7 "Fn" buttons available
    on some models. Also, due to the way AF is designed in MFT
    bodies, no lens AF calibration is necessary in MFT, unlike
    with DSLRs (if one is particular about accurate AF focus...).
    The newer Panasonic kit lens is the small, light, very-good
    14-42mm II (28-84mm-equivalent). It is a "slow" f3.5-5.6,
    but generally sharp, and with a good stabilizer. It's very
    "plasticy", but who cares if it performs well, is very light
    and small, and very cheap? I was going to sell the one that
    came with the G6, but I like it (even though I then have
    five(!) lenses that offer the 14mm FL...)! (I never claimed
    to not be a "lens-nut"!;-)
    With the Panasonics, if focus distance changes or if the
    zoom shifts focus with zooming, either the shutter release
    will cause a refocus or you can set the AF mode to continuous
    focus, so this is not generally a problem... (and with many,
    you can also focus by touching the rear screen where you
    want best-focus). If desired, a button will lock AF and/or
    AE, settable for either momentary or "set-and-hold" use...
    Which reminds me of one thing I like about these:
    ***EVERYTHING*** can be modified to taste in the menus (if
    you can find it...;-). There are MANY adjustments possible,
    VERY different from the old film cameras! You can give your
    images your own "look" using the wide range of options
    available - which can be scary at first! 8^)
    David Ruether, Dec 20, 2013
  9. This was fun. I hadn't realized that and initially didn't believe it,
    so I Googled for micro four thirds and I found this article:

    Notice that the very first camera listed is the Sony Alpha NEX-7 :)

    In fact the article listed a *lot* of non-micro-four-thirds cameras.

    I guess I'll blacklist the site :)

    So I decided to just go to B&H. There I found that their MFT page lists
    cameras by Olympus and Panasonic only, and now I'm a convert to your
    Gene E. Bloch, Dec 20, 2013
  10. I guess the "mirrorless" part may have given a hint, as in,
    all MFT cameras are mirrorless, but not all mirrorless cameras
    are MFT...;-).
    Oh-oh!8^) BTW, "faith" is a "fightin'" word, indicating that
    the opinion is based on unsupported beliefs, brand-loyalty, etc.,
    rather than on experience, facts, and research...;-) Not that
    MFT is the only way to go, but needing light and small gear
    to use, among the choices available a year ago that were also
    capable of good results, and had a wide range of good lenses
    available to this "lens-nut", MFT made sense given just about
    everything about it. So, in the last year I've been having "tons
    of fun" shooting with this new gear, and I have been getting
    images that can make *GOOD* 16.5"x22" prints (ones you can look
    at close up, and they still look SHARP!), and I have in the
    process just topped 30,000 frames shot(!!!). THIS MFT STUFF
    IS ***FUN*** TO USE! 8^)
    David Ruether, Dec 20, 2013
  11. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Hi David.
    I will need to check to find out the maximum size that I can receive from
    an attached file with my internet provider. A friend send me some holiday
    photos but there was a problem in receiving them due to the size of the
    e-mail being received.
    One option is to setup a drop box which is a special folder and anything
    put in the folder can be access by another person but the other person has
    only access to the folder and no access to the rest of the computer. I
    tried it once with success but will need to find out how its done as it was
    a while ago.

    There is another type of camera invented by Sony which has a mirror but the
    mirror is fixed in place and never moves. Its a semi reflective mirror so
    light can pass through the mirror to the sensor. The Sony A 65 and A 77 has
    this system. I tried one of these cameras in a photography store. The field
    of view in the view finder is very big but there seems to be a reduction in
    light when using the view finder compared to other cameras. The camera did
    not score as well as other cameras.

    When you carry a camera around these days its like carrying around a small
    computer as some cameras such as the Canon 70D has over 100 settings
    including WiFi. I did some research on cameras recently.
    The canon has an AF Micro-adjustment for different lens should the lens
    fail to be accurately focused using the auto focus system. There is an
    average live of about 100,000 shutter operations before it wears out, more
    on a professional camera so I can see the advantage of a mirror-less
    camera. I read that someone worn out his shutter by using his camera for
    animation by taking single photos to create a movie.

    Do all MFT cameras have changeable lens. I was wondering if my Sony HX200
    camera would be classed as a MFT camera as the body size is similar as a
    dSLR camera. It has no mirror and is fully manual as well as auto. It has a
    fixed lens. The only problem is it does not do RAW photos and the smallest
    aperture size is f8

    They say the advantage with a mirror camera is what you see is what you get
    but thats not so true with digital cameras as
    the image has been altered before it gets saved to the memory card. Some
    cameras allow no altering of the photo which produces dull flat looking
    photos which need to be enhanced using a computer.
    Brian, Dec 21, 2013
  12. Have no fear - I just said 'faith' for fun :)

    The MFTs are very tempting to me, but I've resisted so far...
    Gene E. Bloch, Dec 21, 2013
  13. Years ago (mid 60s) Canon made the Canon Pellix (from the Latin word
    for a film or membrane) which was like that. It was not extremely
    successful. It was a 35mm SLR that took all the Canon lenses.

    All the MFT cameras that I have seen have interchangeable lenses.

    MFT refers to the sensor size, but they also all have the same lens
    mount also, so you can swap (most) lenses between different brands.
    Anything with a different sensor or a different mount would not be a
    micro four thirds camera.
    Gene E. Bloch, Dec 21, 2013
  14. I suspected as much..., but "faith" vs. science is a "hot-button"
    thing for me just now...;-)
    I needed to use lighter gear (or none...) than current gear
    with "large" FF or DX sized sensors are, and I discovered
    that the MFT gear can be (for my purposes) equally good,
    yet FAR (as in NO CONTEST!) smaller and lighter (and cheaper)
    than the "big stuff". It has been a pleasure using it, instead
    of a (marginally-possible, if at all) chore. I've sold much of
    my Nikon gear as a result (easy to do on Amazon...;-), and a
    large (and growing) collection of MFT gear now occupies about
    1 1/2 small shelves in a large cabinet that used to overflow
    with gear that wasn't as complete a collection as I now have
    with MFT (there are all kinds of benefits to MFT!;-). BTW, if
    you do decide to switch, I can give you MUCH info about what's
    David Ruether, Dec 21, 2013
  15. [...MUCH edited out - see above...;-]
    Generally (around here), 5-10 megs or so is easy. I have a mailing
    list for daily photos that I shoot, which I *try* to limit to 5-6
    megs, which is about two or three 1920x1440 sharpened 16-megapixel
    photos - but I advise people to save what they want to folders and
    to dump all my emails with photos in them, plus empty their "deleted"
    and "junk" folders regularly to avoid filling their mailboxes (and
    also to NEVER forward my photos - which is why I prefer not to post
    them on websites).
    No (and Gene covered this...).
    Yes. Many of the MFT cameras give you the choice of using the
    mechanical shutter or the electronic shutter (which doesn't
    wear out, can be totally silent, and which causes no camera
    shake). Also, mirrorless cameras do not need the AF calibrations,
    since their AF works differently. The electronic viewfinders
    are also getting quite good, and I don't now miss even Nikon's
    excellent optical finders (that were in their top models...).
    This would not be MFT, as Gene pointed out, and the other
    "give-away" is the f8 minimum aperture, which is (with
    a very small sensor) pushing the lens(es) for it well into
    diffraction-limiting, so using a smaller stop would result
    in noticeably-reduced sharpness. With all Panasonic lenses
    that I've seen, the smallest stop is f22, WAY beyond what
    should be used for good lens sharpness with the MFT lenses
    appropriate for its sensor size.
    This is not true at all, and with the electronic finders,
    they tend to have 100% coverage, and (with using adjustments
    available in the camera) they can be set up to give fairly
    predictable/usable info about exposure and color-balance
    with good ones...
    True, if shooting JPGs, not true if shooting RAW... (I shoot
    only JPGs...;-).
    At least with the Panasonics, ALMOST EVERY aspect of both the
    viewing and the taking image can be adjusted in menus. For
    instance, the color balance of the images can be adjusted for
    brightness/contrast/tonal-"knee"/sharpening/noise-reduction and
    color balance along two axes (blue-amber/green-magenta) - the
    last independently for ALL of the white-balance choices, plus
    most of these can also be applied to both VFs independently of
    each other. Plus there are scads of (to me, mostly silly) preset
    "effects" that can be applied to images both before and after
    shooting them. These cameras are a "tweaker's" dream come true!
    8^) Even the Panasonic LX7 and LF1 pocket cameras have these
    adjustments available... Other "nifty" things are the camera
    "leveling" indicator, high-VF-magnification for focus-checking,
    multiple metering and AF patterns/areas, and even focus-peaking
    on some cameras, along with the usual exposure-bias (more useful
    with electronic finders than with optical finders...), easy
    aperture/shutter-speed shifts, mode shifts, etc., plus MUCH more,
    all in cameras that can shoot VERY sharp images (after some work
    in a photo editor), with a range of lens FLs available that is
    now very wide, with gear that is not a "pain" to carry and use,
    and also not horribly expensive to buy - and some models can
    even shoot very high quality video...!;-)
    David Ruether, Dec 21, 2013
  16. You need to have faith in me.

    You might have guessed that there was no way I could pass that
    opportunity up :)

    All in good fun.

    OT, but halfway relevant to "faith":
    I had a visit from a Jehovah's Witness and his young (~8 or 9 yrs old)
    son today. They were remarkably unpushy and seemed very tolerant of my
    differing views. That was nice. And they didn't hang around for a long

    I wished them happy holidays, but wondered and so asked if that was
    appropriate. Turns out they celebrate not Christ's birth but his death.
    I asked about whether they celebrate the resurrection, and the boy
    responded with "I have this issue [of their newsletter] with an article
    on that subject" and gave me a copy. I was very impressed with that
    young boy! Favorably, I might add...
    Gene E. Bloch, Dec 21, 2013
  17. Thanks. The remarks from Brian about calibrating AF were new &
    mysterious to me, but your remark quoted above, though terse, clarified
    the situation for me. I was aware that DSLR autofocus can be a bit of a
    kludge, but didn't realize it could therefore require calibration. My
    bad :)

    BTW, thanks for the rest of that informative post as well.
    Gene E. Bloch, Dec 21, 2013
  18. 'Course...! 8^)
    "Great salesmen (a-hem!;-) are born, not made." Well - maybe in
    this case, one was made...!;-) 8^)
    David Ruether, Dec 21, 2013
  19. I don't use it, but it's "neat" that with several mirrorless
    cameras you can touch anywhere on the rear screen (or direct
    the AF cursor there in either VF) and have the AF use that
    spot for focus. Also, it is practical to use almost any
    brand or type of lens on these cameras (the adapters are
    cheap at Amazon) and with the VF magnification, very
    accurate MF is fairly easy - so some unusual photos are
    possible. I'd like to send you and Brian a 2,000mm (35mm
    FF-equivalent) view of a detail of a run-down house down
    the street. You will be surprised by the detail-level
    possible from a 500mm Nikkor mirror combined with a TC300
    2X tele-extender (plus the 2X magnification from the
    format = 2,000mm!). It is 1920x1440, 2.29-megs file size,
    and it should be viewed at 100% (1:1) for best sharpness -
    and it should NOT be forwarded. Send your email addresses
    if you two (or others) want to see it...
    David Ruether, Dec 21, 2013
  20. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Yes shutter shake is a problem if you want to crop and enlarge a small part
    of the picture. Flip-up Mirrors type cameras have been around a while now
    so maybe its time for a new type of camera technology.
    Thanks for making the f8 limit more clearer to me as I have often wondered
    why I can't get a smaller aperture on this camera. I did read recently that
    f11 gives a sharper focus then f16 or smaller.
    The problem is if you setup the camera to certain setting for a suitable
    subject then forgetting to change the setting back to what they should be
    for general photography. Having custom setting can be useful or a setting
    that will reset the camera after it has been turned off if after a single
    shot has been taken. Some cameras now have an option of seeing what the
    image will look like with the enhancements that will be applied to it
    before it gets saved. I think its called Exposure simulation on the Canon
    But unless the photographer knows what he is doing he could ruin his photos
    with the wrong settings. Don't get me wrong as I like a lot of settings to
    get the photo I wanted but maybe warnings are needed that the camera has
    been setup to unusual settings. Not all photographers check their photos
    Focus peaking and a distance finder are two things I'd like to see in more
    A distance finder can be useful if your the type of person that wants to
    get out a tape measure and measure the distance to a nearby subject then
    set the camera to a certain distance. They use to be this the TV studio.
    The other things you wrote about (above) are finding there way into cameras
    such as the Canon 70D and Nikon 7100.
    But its good that these features are available in light small cameras.
    Brian, Dec 22, 2013
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