American dollar finally "gets" to Canon

Discussion in 'Canon' started by RichA, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

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  2. RichA

    Doug Jewell Guest

    Some of my sources from within Canon have advised me that
    within a couple of months, they will be moving to a world
    price list in an effort to stamp out grey marketing. As a
    result of this, some markets will have price rises, while
    other markets will have price drops. The price list will
    then change within each country once/month based on their
    exchange rate (not sure whether they will be using the Yen
    or the US dollar as the comparison rate).
     
    Doug Jewell, Apr 28, 2008
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Andy Hall Guest

    The operative phrase here is *their* exchange rate. There is nothing
    to say that it will be the market one. Typically in these cases it
    isn't. It really depends on whether the manufacturer really does care
    about grey marketing or about the potential to charge more in markets
    where they can.

    The people who care about grey marketing are the regional sales
    organisations of the manufacturer and the distribution channel and it
    would not be the first time that a manufacturer has made price policy
    changes in order to be seen to keep their channels happy.

    In the end, it's all about margin. Some distribution channels have
    lower costs and are willing to live with lower margins than others.
     
    Andy Hall, Apr 28, 2008
    #3
  4. It would be foolish for Canon to set a "world" price in stone in a highly
    volatile market. This increase has absolutely nothing to do with "grey
    marketing" practices as it has been around since the beginning of Canon.
    Like they said in the newsletter it's all about the bottom line and the
    effect fuel prices and exchange rate has on it. Plus, with China becoming
    civilized the availability of slave rate wages are quickly disappearing.
    Then again, they might be trying to recoup all the losses from the Mk III AF
    fiasco.



    Rita
    --
    Stamping out Internet stupidity one idiot at a time. Never empower the
    idiot, embrace it and stimulate it. For more details go to the Usenet
    Stimulus Project page.

    http://ritaberk.myhosting247.com
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Apr 28, 2008
    #4
  5. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Will have minimal effect on retail pricing. Brits will still pay 40%
    more than Americans, etc.
     
    RichA, Apr 28, 2008
    #5
  6. It would be foolish for any for-profit company to set a world
    price, full stop.

    Richer places can and will pay more, generating more profit.
    Poorer places will only generate profit with lower prices.
    If you really want profit, you need to maximise for profit.

    -Wolfgang

    PS: I wonder how you'd be thundering against Canon, if they
    managed the kind of broken firmware update Nikon and the D3
    just managed. Probably very loud, long and diatribical.

    How about you keep your hand in that trademark of yours,
    and simply write "Nikon" instead of "Canon", huh?
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Apr 28, 2008
    #6
  7. RichA

    Alienjones Guest

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    Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
    |
    |> It would be foolish for Canon to set a "world" price
    |
    | It would be foolish for any for-profit company to set a world
    | price, full stop.
    |
    | Richer places can and will pay more, generating more profit.
    | Poorer places will only generate profit with lower prices.
    | If you really want profit, you need to maximise for profit.
    |
    | -Wolfgang
    |
    | PS: I wonder how you'd be thundering against Canon, if they
    | managed the kind of broken firmware update Nikon and the D3
    | just managed. Probably very loud, long and diatribical.
    |
    | How about you keep your hand in that trademark of yours,
    | and simply write "Nikon" instead of "Canon", huh?

    Like all the other contributors in these groups who seem to make a habit
    of jumping on everyone they can at the slightest possibility there may
    be an opportunity, you make false assumptions based on no information at
    all.

    "Owners not experiencing these problems should not update their camera's
    firmware"

    Like everything else in this world Wolfgang...

    *Don't fix what ain't broke*!

    Neither of my D3s have any problems and they still have the original
    firmware.

    In your rush to dump on Rita, you cleverly neglected to mention that
    Canon have an incredible record for busted firmware, don't they?

    I killed stone dead a 3 week old 20D that used to lock up on every lens
    change, following Canon's firmware "fix" that didn't! How many firmware
    released did they make to get that one right? Don't bother, I'll tell
    you... *THREE*.

    And... The firmware fix for the MkIII? Hmmm... Still working on that one
    three months after release. Something about the timing of the motor that
    drives the mirror up, isn't it?

    Canon should have stuck with spring loaded mirrors... Or took a lesson
    from the one that fell out of my 5D in the middle of a wedding!

    Oh yeah, Wolfgang... Canon have an awesome history of costing their
    owners serious money and embarrassment. Canon's response? Well you know
    the 5D isn't a Professional camera, don't you????

    Yep. No preferred repair time. No loan camera. Just 3 weeks and 2 days
    to fix it. And thennn... 30mm back focus error at 1 meter when it
    returned! Another 2 weeks to fix that stuff up. Five weddings I had to
    do with my backup camera for Christ sake.

    Sorry Wolfgang... Canon have always made some nice cameras but reliable?
    Nope! As far back as my AE1, Canon had no reliability. The old "Electro
    shutter" would start screeching the first time you changed a lens while
    someone sneezed and gradually slow down. The fix? A mere $160... Dust in
    the camera was not covered by warranty!

    I could go on and on but I'd just bore myself!

    - --

    from Douglas,
    If my PGP key is missing, the
    post is a forgery. Ignore it.
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    Alienjones, Apr 28, 2008
    #7
  8. Well, considering Nikon only does about two firmware upgrades on any given
    model over its life I would have been bitching if it had negative effects on
    my D3, it didn't. They corrected the "bugs" two weeks later and all is
    perfect in Nikon land. As for Canon, nobody bitches if they get good or bad
    firmware as they usually get a baker's dozen of them in the first year and
    still have shitty hardware after the updates. Kinda like the Chinaman
    putting MSG on Doberman shit and selling it as lobster.
    No! I like Canon and use it as a baseline for what Nikon shouldn't be
    doing. You would think after 30-years Canon would be able to make a working
    wide angle lens? NOT!





    Rita
    --
    Stamping out Internet stupidity one idiot at a time. Never empower the
    idiot, embrace it and stimulate it. For more details go to the Usenet
    Stimulus Project page.

    http://ritaberk.myhosting247.com
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Apr 29, 2008
    #8
  9. The firmware wasn't issued to correct any problems. It has two features
    that make it worth upgrading. First is the adjustable brightness of the AF
    points and shutter speed of 1/4000 max for Auto-ISO. I put V1.11B on the
    other day even though I didn't have any file corruption problems in machine
    gun mode.



    Rita
    --
    Stamping out Internet stupidity one idiot at a time. Never empower the
    idiot, embrace it and stimulate it. For more details go to the Usenet
    Stimulus Project page.

    http://ritaberk.myhosting247.com
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Apr 29, 2008
    #9
  10. RichA

    Alienjones Guest

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    Rita Berkowitz wrote:
    | Alienjones wrote:
    |
    |> Neither of my D3s have any problems and they still have the original
    |> firmware.
    |
    | The firmware wasn't issued to correct any problems. It has two features
    | that make it worth upgrading. First is the adjustable brightness of
    the AF
    | points and shutter speed of 1/4000 max for Auto-ISO. I put V1.11B on the
    | other day even though I didn't have any file corruption problems in
    machine
    | gun mode.
    |
    |
    |
    | Rita
    Yes... Neither of which I have enough need for to upgrade. Most of my
    work is done at sub 1/500th and the AF points look OK to these old
    eyes... Especially when I wear my new Apple night vision!!!

    - --

    from Douglas,
    If my PGP key is missing, the
    post is a forgery. Ignore it.
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    Alienjones, Apr 29, 2008
    #10
  11. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Or the finder misalignments being reported with the new $8000
    1DsMkIII?
    Lets face it, when Nikon screws up, it's an oddity. When Canon does,
    it's another day.
     
    RichA, Apr 29, 2008
    #11
  12. RichA

    Doug Jewell Guest

    I've heard that drops of up to 40% will be had in Australia.
    In Australia grey marketing is a major issue - lenses can be
    had from Hong Kong for some $1000 less than Australian
    wholesale pricing. This makes it hard for the local
    resellers to try to compete.
    Under the new world pricing, Australia's higher cost of
    doing business will be subsidised by some of the other
    countries. It will mean that Australian resellers will be
    able to compete on an equal footing with the ebay-ers from
    Hong-Kong. I can't see this as a negative - places like
    photocontinental (a large brisbane based retailer who have
    significantly reduced their range in the last few years)
    will be more likely to stock lenses if they know they will
    be able to sell them at a competitive price, instead of
    being $1000 dearer than HK.
     
    Doug Jewell, Apr 29, 2008
    #12
  13. .... i.e. Nikon does a bad job acknowledging bugs and adding
    features ...
    I distinctly remember you predicting the end of the world, at
    least the end of civilisation (and the begin of Nikons world
    dictatorship) when Canon's newest 1D had some focussing problem.
    Was your 1D affected?
    No, it wasn't.
    Sour grapes, Rita. Sour grapes.
    I do own a couple Canon wide angle lenses. They work. They
    focus --- they even have working AF. They deliver good shots.
    They behave well. They ... you get the picture. Which is more
    than I can say about all the Nikon wide angle lenses I had the
    'pleasure' to use --- never managed to get one good wide angle
    shot out of them, for technical reasons. None of the Nikon
    wide angle lenses I tried worked for me.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Apr 29, 2008
    #13
  14. And vignetting correction.

    Which only proves that Nikon did rush the D3 to market (if not, all
    the features would already have been in the camera) --- and then
    tried to rush the new firmware, too ... and fell on their noses.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Apr 29, 2008
    #14
  15. Grey market isn't the problem; it is VAT (for UK) and other taxes and
    tariffs that severely affect the price. This isn't a Canon problem.



    Rita
    --
    Stamping out Internet stupidity one idiot at a time. Never empower the
    idiot, embrace it and stimulate it. For more details go to the Usenet
    Stimulus Project page.

    http://ritaberk.myhosting247.com
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Apr 29, 2008
    #15
  16. RichA

    newsmb Guest


    I suspect it has nothing to do with grey markets and everything to do
    with a plummeting US dollar.
     
    newsmb, Apr 29, 2008
    #16
  17. RichA

    Alienjones Guest

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    Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
    |> Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
    |
    | None of the Nikon
    | wide angle lenses I tried worked for me.
    |
    | -Wolfgang

    I know why... They won't fit on the box brownie you used.

    Even when you upgraded to a Digicam, all that gaffer tape you used to
    hold them on was the real issue. You have to remember to keep the ends
    out of the image plane!!!

    - --

    from Douglas,
    If my PGP key is missing, the
    post is a forgery. Ignore it.
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    Alienjones, Apr 29, 2008
    #17
  18. RichA

    Alienjones Guest

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    Doug Jewell wrote:
    | RichA wrote:
    |>> RichA wrote:
    |>>> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=27726703
    |>> Some of my sources from within Canon have advised me that
    |>> within a couple of months, they will be moving to a world
    |>> price list in an effort to stamp out grey marketing.
    |>
    |> Will have minimal effect on retail pricing. Brits will still pay 40%
    |> more than Americans, etc.
    | I've heard that drops of up to 40% will be had in Australia.
    | In Australia grey marketing is a major issue - lenses can be had from
    | Hong Kong for some $1000 less than Australian wholesale pricing. This
    | makes it hard for the local resellers to try to compete.
    | Under the new world pricing, Australia's higher cost of doing business
    | will be subsidised by some of the other countries. It will mean that
    | Australian resellers will be able to compete on an equal footing with
    | the ebay-ers from Hong-Kong. I can't see this as a negative - places
    | like photocontinental (a large brisbane based retailer who have
    | significantly reduced their range in the last few years) will be more
    | likely to stock lenses if they know they will be able to sell them at a
    | competitive price, instead of being $1000 dearer than HK.
    - ------------------

    In Australia "Grey Market" purchases saved me many thousands of dollars
    earlier this year. The "Channel" -- that exclusive little group of
    those who can as opposed to those who can't sell certain cameras is
    pissed off us victims have finally found a way around their exclusive
    (and highly profitable) little club and now cry foul... Boo Hoo. How's
    it feel to have the shoe on the other foot?

    I note that Canon have not included cameras in their "world Pricing"
    announcement. Why? Because a couple of years ago they supposedly leveled
    the camera prices, claiming it would stop grey market sales yet it is
    still cheaper to buy in Hong Kong than Sydney or Brisbane!

    The bit I have a problem getting my head around is the refusal to handle
    warranty claims unless the goods were sold in the country of claim. At
    the end of the day, Canon have to foot the bill for their faulty goods,
    what does it matter if they sold them in Afghanistan or Australia? Canon
    is a Japanese company.

    If Canon got their collective heads out of their ass and took a good
    look at what they've done with their "distribution" network, all their
    products - printers - copiers and photographic goods could be sold on an
    even keel price at a lower overall price than now. But nooo. Market
    dominance is all they are interested in.

    If Canon can sell 5000 1D Mk III's to Digital Rev in Hong Kong every
    month, they sure as hell are not going to price them the same as selling
    2000 a month to an Australian distribution network - that has a flawed
    and incredibly expensive distribution and marketing system they won't
    change.

    Price fixing is illegal in Australia. Doug Jewell would like that to be
    reversed so the "channel" of which he seems to be part of, can sustain a
    higher price at the expense of us "victims", who at the end of the day,
    are the ones Canon need to survive.

    Doug... What is intrinsically wrong with you buying your cameras
    wholesale in Japan when delivery is typically less than a week? Nothing!
    You and the idiots building empires of distribution in Australia need to
    recognize that we live in a global community now.

    It is cheaper to distribute in a central location like China or Vietnam
    than have a whole bunch of inefficient and unusually wealthy smaller
    distributors in remote locations. It is this navel gazing attitude that
    the current system is the only one that works that is doing the damage,
    not supplies from China (or anywhere else).

    - --

    from Douglas,
    If my PGP key is missing, the
    post is a forgery. Ignore it.
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    Alienjones, Apr 29, 2008
    #18
  19. RichA

    Andy Hall Guest

    Not really. One also has to consider the ability of the individual
    to do something about it.

    VAT on products of this type varies between approx. 15% and 25% between
    different EU countries.

    Duty is in the 4 - 6.5% range on most photographic equipment on entry
    from outside the EU and then local VAT is applied to that on import.

    This is true whether the item is bought from a source (e.g. retail)
    within the EU or whether it is personally imported from outside. The
    only difference is that in the former case the VAT is paid to the
    retailer and in the latter it is paid to Customs at point of import.
    There is no legal way to avoid that.

    However, even with these taxes taken out, there are sometimes
    variations between EU countries and certainly relative to other parts
    of the world.

    The other piece to the equation is the cost of shipment by courier and
    insurance. This can run into $100 U.S. or more and also carries VAT
    at time of import.

    On lower value items, the cost saving diminishes rapidly and for more
    expensive items, the risks of loss of warranty in some cases and risk
    from loss of consumer protection legislation have to be considered as
    well.
     
    Andy Hall, Apr 29, 2008
    #19
  20. RichA

    OldBoy Guest

    Best to buy from a country with the lowest VAT or the best exchange rate
    within the EU :)
    No import duties applied.
    Weak UK-pound to EURO is tempting but UK to mainland Europe shipping costs
    are very high.

    Warranties apply when bought within the EU and there is a EU-minimum
    consumer protection.
     
    OldBoy, Apr 29, 2008
    #20
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