Another Photo-Journalist added to the roll of honor.

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by Savageduck, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    Savageduck, Jan 28, 2011
    #1
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  2. Savageduck

    Rich Guest

    Maybe like hockey players did, one day they'll finally start wearing
    protective helmets during riots in violent, Third World ratholes?
    Even a bike helmet would have saved the guy.
     
    Rich, Jan 29, 2011
    #2
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  3. I'm sure Tunisians would love to hear their country referred to that way
    .... but of course, who cares about them? Their lives aren't worth as
    much as ours are.


    --
    Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

    To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
    who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
    that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Jan 29, 2011
    #3
  4. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    Since photographers started getting "up close" in combat zones they
    wore the protective available when they could. That didn't help Capa in
    Vietnam when he tripped that mine. It didn't help Joao Silva last year
    when that IED took his legs off. Not wearing anything didn't help Tim
    Page when he received his many disturbing injuries.
    All the metal in this Nikon <
    http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Ichinse-01cw.jpg > didn't help
    Taizo Ichinose in Cambodia.
    In some civil disturbances some photographers/press are able to wear
    full Kevlar, helmet & vest. However most choose not to, only wearing an
    identifying non-protective "press vest". Sometimes all they have is the
    camera. Sometimes they can be the target of either side, The Balkans in
    the 190's saw a high casualty rate among photo-journalists even]though
    they wore Kevlar. Sometimes they are caught in the middle of things
    with nowhere to go and nothing to protect them while they do their work.

    These guys put themselves out there, sometimes for little reward. This
    is not the World of the wedding, or fashion photographer, though I
    would imagine there might be times those guys would like to have
    protective gear handy

    I suggest you see James Nachtwey at work. This was a shot of him in the
    incident when Ken Ooserbroek was killed in South Africa.
    < http://www.peterdeanrickards.com/2010/08/26/inspiration/ >
    < >

    and his address when receiving the TED award in 2007 (about 20 minutes);
    < http://www.ted.com/talks/james_nachtwey_s_searing_pictures_of_war.html >
     
    Savageduck, Jan 29, 2011
    #4
  5. Savageduck

    peter Guest

    Those guys put as much on the line, with less backup than the bravest of
    troops. I have nothing but admiration for them.
     
    peter, Jan 29, 2011
    #5
  6. Savageduck

    peter Guest

    Typical comment from you. Why don't you volunteer to go. Make sure you
    wear your bicycle helmet.

    BTW did you start your economics courses?
     
    peter, Jan 29, 2011
    #6
  7. Savageduck

    Bowser Guest

    That's true. But what's the exchange rate?
     
    Bowser, Jan 29, 2011
    #7
  8. Savageduck

    Alfred Molon Guest

    There was an Iraq war video on wikileaks showing a US helicopter
    machine-gunning an AP photographer in Bahgdad. Apparently the guy on the
    helicopter mistook the camera of the photographer as an RPG device.
     
    Alfred Molon, Jan 29, 2011
    #8
  9. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    Not nearly as bad as US Air Force F4 fighters strafing two US Coast
    Guard patrol boats in Vietnam with rockets & 20mm fire, killing Navy
    and Coast Guard crew on both patrol boats and seriously wounding Tim
    Page who had hitched a ride to get some photographs on the patrol. The
    US Army then billed Page $400 for medical treatment. Page stapled that
    bill to a clipping of the story which had run in Time magazine, and
    mailed it to the Commanding General of the 7th Air Force at Ton Son
    Nhut AF base. He heard no more.
    He left VN for about a year, recovering in NYC, and then return to 'nam
    via Israel. That was when, in 1968, he received the wound which almost
    killed him, when a piece of shrapnel drove through his brain leaving
    him paralyzed on one side of his body.
     
    Savageduck, Jan 29, 2011
    #9
  10. Pretty easily calculated, using news stories in the MSM and their
    relative ranking (i.e., page placement in the newspaper, etc.).

    I figure it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 50:1 to 100:1.


    --
    Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

    To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
    who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
    that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Jan 29, 2011
    #10
  11. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    As of 09:45AM, 1/29/2011, 1.41 Tunisian Dinar = $1US = €0.74
    (...er, there's an Ap for that)

    So your wide range guesstimate was not too close.
     
    Savageduck, Jan 29, 2011
    #11
  12. Savageduck

    Alan Browne Guest

    The Iraq footage is much worse than that event. Non combatants were
    killed. It was one of the most disgusting displays of callousness I've
    ever seen.
     
    Alan Browne, Jan 29, 2011
    #12
  13. Savageduck

    peter Guest

    You remind me about the Chinese guy in San Francisco who pays for
    everything with yuan. He reviewed his hotel bill.
    The first day his lunch cost 100 yuan.
    On the second day 110 yuan and on the third, 120 yuan.

    He asked why the price was different even though he had the same thing
    every day. the manager looked at the bill and said "fluctuations.

    the Chinese guy said: "fluck you Amelicans."
     
    peter, Jan 29, 2011
    #13
  14. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    Worse is subjective. Callousness is your opinion. In combat the normal
    reaction is to neutralize a perceived threat, and sometimes that action
    has to be taken in a split second. It is not a movie, or TV, or a place
    for Monday morning quarterbacks.
    Have you ever been under fire in a combat situation?
    My little "meditation in green" was determined by a Selective Service
    number of #54 and a 1-A status. Footage is one thing the results of the
    event another.
    You are making a categorical judgement based on what you saw in the
    Iraq footage without any knowledge of the other event.
    When US. Coast Guard Cutters, flying the Stars & Stripes are shot up
    with multiple passes by USAF F4's with 20mm cannon, 5 inch Zuni
    rockets, & 2.75 ARA rockets with flechette (beehive) loads, you don't
    quantify the event. It was as bad for them as it was for the
    photographer in Iraq.
    One of the Cutters was sunk. The carnage continued with more strafing
    runs on victims in the water. The skipper of one cutter was beheaded by
    a rocket blast on the third pass while he tried to signal recognition
    codes and stop the attack. The F4's made 8 runs and a B-57, which had
    started the whole thing, dropped a string of cluster bombs on them.
    Page was lucky to survive with shrapnel wounds to his arm, a flechette
    penetration of his cheek, nose, and orbit of his left eye, a flechette
    wound in the small of his back and a shrapnel slash to his inner thigh.
    The executive officer lost both arms and a foot. There were several
    other wounded. Four other crew and a Vietnamese interpreter were killed
    When you are being killed it doesn't matter much if you are a
    non-combatant, or not, when you are being killed by your own side.

    ....and Page was a non-combatant photographer.
     
    Savageduck, Jan 29, 2011
    #14
  15. So what does the currency exchange rate have to do with it? I think you
    may have missed my point here, which is the "value" of human life.


    --
    Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

    To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
    who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
    that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Jan 30, 2011
    #15
  16. Savageduck

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On 1/28/2011 4:39 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    : >
    : > French photo-journalist Lucas Mebrouk Dolega 32, dies after being hit in
    : > the head by a police fired tear gas grenade in Tunis while covering the
    : > disturbances in Tunis for Paris Match.
    : > <
    : > http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/parting-glance-lucas-mebrouk-dolega-32/
    : >
    :
    : Those guys put as much on the line, with less backup than the bravest of
    : troops. I have nothing but admiration for them.

    And now photographers, probably including some of the same ones, are taking
    similar risks to bring us the truth about what's happening in Egypt.

    The U.S. is being begged and cajoled to take on a major role in helping rid
    Egypt of Hosni Mubarak. We won't, of course. For nearly two generations
    American policy in the Middle East has been dictated almost exclusively by
    Israel, and Mubarak is as close to a friend as Israel has in the Arab world.
    But at least Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are saying some of the right
    things, calling on Mubarak to reform his government and stop trying to crush
    the protests. That's as much as we can expect; and quite frankly, most
    Americans don't know what course of action would lead to a good outcome in
    Egypt. All we know for sure is that whenever we try to throw our weight
    around, things seem to get worse for whomever we're trying to help.

    As for what our attitude would be in the best of all possible worlds, I prefer
    this excerpt from our declaration of independence from Great Britain in 1776:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that
    they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; that among
    these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these
    rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from
    the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes
    destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to
    abolish it and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such
    principles, and organizing its power in such form, as to them shall seem most
    likely to effect their safety and happiness."

    If only.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 30, 2011
    #16
  17. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    For me still 1:1.
     
    Savageduck, Jan 30, 2011
    #17
  18. Savageduck

    tony cooper Guest

    Me, I'm wondering how they tell the "non-combatants" from the suicide
    bombers. I guess if you check the body and don't find an explosive
    vest under the civilian clothes, it's a non-combatant. Or, if it's a
    civilian who has already planted and covered up an IED he or she
    reverts to non-combatant status.

    The suicide bomber who killed 52 Iraqis in Tikrit in January managed
    to leave a pretty disgusting display of callousness.
     
    tony cooper, Jan 30, 2011
    #18
  19. Savageduck

    Bill Graham Guest

    Yes. If, "All men are created equal", that's a pretty good ratio.
     
    Bill Graham, Jan 30, 2011
    #19
  20. Again, you miss my point.

    For me it's 1:1 too. But that's not the conclusion any Martian would
    come to if they were to come down to Earth and observe the relative
    worth placed on American lives and non-American lives in the US.
    Evidence? Just watch the news or read a newspaper ...


    --
    Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

    To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
    who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
    that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Jan 30, 2011
    #20
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