Any Minolta/Sony users using UFRaw and GIMP?

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Jeffery Small, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. Jeffery Small

    Savageduck Guest

    Good! At least we can agree on that.
    Yup! It irritates the piss out of me, Photoshop doesn't do that.
    ....unless you were thinking of something specific, nothing else comes
    readily to mind.
    ....but not all.
    With the exception of Floyd, who wouldn't deign to lower himself to use
    Win or OSX.
    Most of that happy group are Linux users, and rabid Win & OSX naysayers
    with little choice in digital image editing software other than GIMP.
    The Win & OSX GIMP users who might have at one time or another been
    exposed to another piece of digital editing software are the usually
    the frugal bunch who are not prepared to open their wallets to other
    than open source freeware. The last version of PS they might have used
    was PS7 because they didn't want to get on the CS upgrade $$$
    treadmill. They then rationalized their decision by declaring that GIMP
    was the solution to their digital editing woes.

    As to being happy GIMP users, they sure are a reactionary defensive bunch.
    ....but who am I to know what works for you.

    I came into this thread when you posed the question to nospam:
    "So then you are saying GIMP *can* be used efficiently with
    good results?"

    You might recall that my response was the following:
    "Not efficiently, using it is a royal PIA, and other software available
    for Windows and OSX is superior in all ways. However, some GIMP users
    who have no desire to use Win or OSX, and only think open source
    freeware have been able to produce acceptable images.

    I have a copy of GIMP 2.8.2 on this Mac which I visit from time to time
    to remind me just why I don't include it in my image processing
    workflow. Regardless of the claims of GIMP evangelists/advocates it is
    not the equal of Photoshop CS6/CC, PSE, or lightroom. There are also
    some other affordable and very powerful image editing apps available
    for OSX (I don't check on Win stuff) which put GIMP in the shade.

    So while GIMP might suffice for you, Floyd, and other single minded
    Linux users, it doesn't do it for me, and the great majority
    individuals in the graphics and digital imaging world. If I didn't use
    PS/CC and LR5, I would buy the $29.99 Pixelmator to use before I made
    GIMP part of my daily workflow."

    You never responded to that, and might never have seen it, but Floyd did.

    If you ever move off the Linux platform I suggest you take some of the
    other software offerings out for a test drive, you might be surprised
    how many have evolved over the last 20 years.
    Savageduck, Apr 6, 2014
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  2. Jeffery Small

    Bob Guest

    Pot. Kettle. Black.
    Bob, Apr 6, 2014
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  3. Jeffery Small

    Savageduck Guest

    Not at all. Nowhere have I said there was anything lacking in the
    images many produce using GIMP.
    You might recall me saying the following:
    "... using it is a royal PIA, and other software available for Windows
    and OSX is superior in all ways. However, some GIMP users who have no
    desire to use Win or OSX, and only think open source freeware have been
    able to produce acceptable images."

    Floyd on the other and implies some sort of intellectual deficiency and
    lack of quality of work with any who don't see things his way, even
    when we have produced imagery which refutes that stance.

    The quote you cited above was in response to just that attitude
    expressed by Floyd when we had this exchange:
    "You seem to be taking a somewhat lofty and condescending perch there Floyd.
    I don't claim to be a creator of great photographic art. However, what
    I produce I do with deliberation and thought to reach satisfying
    results. Not everything I share is perfect, sometimes there are
    problems. Sometimes I find a solution to a particular problem, many
    times I don't, but I have no problem sharing those images to see if
    there is something I can learn from constructive criticism.
    So is there a particular image of mine which you can point to with
    particular distain?"

    I don't recall seeing any links to your GIMP processed images in this
    NG, but mine can be found without too much trouble. Floyd further
    implies that because I go no further than test driving GIMP that I am
    somehow deficient and have a personal problem.
    I have never made that sort of arrogant denigrating remark with regard
    to Floyd or any of the Linux/GIMP advocates. I have recognized Floyd as
    knowledgeable on a wide range of technical issues and a decent
    photographer. He, on the other hand refuses to acknowledge anybody
    else's knowledge and experience.
    Savageduck, Apr 6, 2014
  4. Jeffery Small

    Eric Stevens Guest

    I didn't cite all Clark Vision articles but only one as a 'for
    example'. is a
    Corel page which describes a wavelet sharpening plugin which I believe
    may also work with Photoshop.
    Eric Stevens, Apr 6, 2014
  5. Jeffery Small

    Eric Stevens Guest

    'They' are people who are seriously in the business of processing
    images. Very few use Gimp. The vast majority use Photoshop.
    Eric Stevens, Apr 6, 2014
  6. Jeffery Small

    Bob Guest

    Actually I think I did respond to it, not that there's
    much to respond to. Use what you like. I have no
    problem with that.

    I came into this thread when I saw a number of people
    acting like they couldn't stand that someone might try
    Gimp -- also making elitist statements about how Gimp
    couldn't possibly be useful. Most have backed off those
    silly claims now, and we're now in the face-saving mode.
    I don't use Linux. Though I find it a sorry excuse for
    an OS, I use Windows every day. I have a paid-for-in-full
    copy of Photoshop and NIK software right here. They work.
    So does Gimp, and when I use Gimp, I don't feel like I'm
    missing out on anything. Lately though, I've been finding
    that I can do pretty much all I want with digikam, darktable,
    or my latest favorite, Rawtherapee. For Gimp/Photoshop-like
    local editing, I've been playing with Krita as an alternative
    for a while now.

    Would you like to make up more about me?

    Bob, Apr 7, 2014
  7. Jeffery Small

    Bob Guest

    Hum, it looks like you keep changing your mind, or did
    you mean to say 'both' rather than 'neither'?
    And? Isn't that true of all software? What about the
    things Gimp can do that no other software does as well?
    If all software were exactly the same, why would we give
    them different names? BTW, with BABL and GEGL written,
    expect future Gimp to be a very different story. Even
    though they haven't been fully integrated into Gimp yet,
    I've found them to be quite elegant, useful and powerful.

    Does it bother you that many of us can use Gimp and other
    non-Adobe software happily and productively, or that someone
    else might try it and like it?

    I don't own a $50,000 Hasselblad. Since that Hasselblad
    can very likely do things my cameras can't, should I stop
    using the ones I have? -- even though my cameras can do things
    the Hasselblad can't? Just wondering.

    Bob, Apr 7, 2014
  8. Jeffery Small

    Savageduck Guest

    Interesting. Which version?
    Whatever makes you happy.
    Where have I made any fabricated personal remarks about you, or implied
    anything disparaging regarding your intellect or character?

    I have no idea of the images you produce so I cannot comment on what
    you do with any digital imaging software.

    I had no idea of your preferred OS until you mentioned it now. I would
    never have guessed that given that you are using an old (2001) open
    source Usenet client, trn 4.0-test76.
    Savageduck, Apr 7, 2014
  9. Jeffery Small

    Bob Guest

    Good, because it sure looked like that's what you
    were saying.
    Meaning you'll produce, what, 10x as many photos of
    equal or better quality than anyone using Gimp? 100
    times? What do you mean by 'leaving it in the dust'?

    Does it bother you that someone else might use Gimp
    and be happy with it?

    Bob, Apr 7, 2014
  10. Jeffery Small

    Savageduck Guest

    On 2014-04-06 23:35:30 +0000, Bob <> said:

    I am curious. Just what are the things which GIMP can do which no other
    software does well?
    I might need to see how that works out on my copy, which is just
    waiting for a reason for me to adopt it into general use.
    Savageduck, Apr 7, 2014
  11. Jeffery Small

    Bob Guest

    I've used quite a few, including Adobe products. Frankly
    I can't understand why you and others make such a big
    deal of it. Whether I use Photoshop or Gimp, it takes me
    about the same amount of time with about the same amount
    of ease for almost everything. For very special cases,
    any one of them might be superior for that particular
    problem, but since those are rare special cases, who cares
    if the tool you have at the time might take a bit longer.

    Bob, Apr 7, 2014
  12. Jeffery Small

    Guest Guest

    and the list keeps getting longer.
    very, very few and nothing that's particularly common or all that
    as they can with iphoto, picasa, and zillions of other apps. most
    people don't need much.

    if your needs are simple then even the gimp is overkill.

    for instance, our resident gimp zealot readily admits he has never used
    nowhere near as many as photoshop users.
    Guest, Apr 7, 2014
  13. Jeffery Small

    Guest Guest

    nothing wrong with that. just don't go saying the gimp is the
    equivalent of photoshop when it's clearly not.
    if the tasks you want to do are difficult with one app or you
    experience problems and that same task can be done easily and without
    problems in another app, then why screw around with the former? switch
    to the app that does what you need without hassles.
    nothing to make up about you. it's clear that your needs are simple.
    Guest, Apr 7, 2014
  14. Jeffery Small

    Guest Guest

    i haven't changed my mind at all. using the gimp is less efficient.

    this is easily shown by the number of steps required and the time it
    takes to do the vast majority of tasks.
    what might those be?
    if they haven't been integrated then they don't count.

    what bothers me is when people say the gimp is a photoshop replacement
    when it's clearly not, or what floyd does, where he says those that
    don't use the gimp are too stupid to understand it.
    straw man.
    Guest, Apr 7, 2014
  15. Jeffery Small

    Guest Guest

    or the same number of photos in 1/10 to 1/100th the time.

    that's what more efficient means.

    if someone likes making things more difficult than it needs to be, go
    for it.

    just don't fault others for pointing out that there are much easier and
    simpler ways to do things.
    Guest, Apr 7, 2014
  16. Jeffery Small

    Guest Guest

    then you aren't pushing either one very hard.
    depends how often you do that particular task and how much work you
    want to expend doing it. if it's a one time thing then it won't matter
    much. on the other hand, if you expect to be doing that task a lot then
    it's worth finding a better tool. it will pay off in the long run.
    Guest, Apr 7, 2014
  17. Floyd:

    Thanks again for all of the very helpful information. I'll keep working
    with UFRaw until I master its capabilities!

    Jeffery Small, Apr 7, 2014
  18. No I haven't. I see both in the software repository and I'll take a look at
    each of them. Thanks Neil!

    Jeffery Small, Apr 7, 2014
  19. Thanks Tony. Spot on. Floyd has been extremely helpful.

    And I certainly didn't wish to start a flame war about either the OS or the
    software. I was only interested in seeing if other Sony/Minolta users were
    experiencing the same results as I, so that I could isolate the problem to
    either the software or to my use of it.

    Jeffery Small, Apr 7, 2014
  20. No trolling here. Using helpful pointers from others, I have been working
    with adjustments to UFRaw and have gotten closer to a reasonable picture,
    while at the same time discovering that the software build I am using may
    have some problems compared to a later release. Alan, if I didn't reply
    directly to your post, it may be that it got missed in all the noise!
    Sorry about that. I do try to follow up to, or acknowledge the help of
    others. I've been away today and only just started to go through the many
    posts to this group.

    Jeffery Small, Apr 7, 2014
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