Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam for re-attack after violent road rage attack?

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by dorothy.bradbury, Jul 18, 2003.

  1. Q: Who sells a mini few-second digital *tiny* handheld videocamera?

    o Small, compact, but records enough seconds to record a few seconds of
    o Held at the parking brake area at the window, easily dropped under the
    o impossible for an attacker to get, and small enough to be non-obvious

    My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road, or on the street.

    Could do with a car panic system that yells "help, help, I'm being attacked,
    call the police"?
    USA people can wait for the window to go, and use a pepper spray & drive
    (unless blocked :)

    My error was not getting to my "2.99ukp special" camera which I could have
    held pointing
    at the window from the parking brake and got a photo of him & fist hitting
    the window.

    Are those SpyCams video for say 10secs (enough, believe me 10secs can be a
    LONG time).

    I'll share why, since it - and the need - can happen to anyone...

    Picture a normal wet UK day.
    Travelling on cruise-control 40mph down a sliproad from Runcorn-Widnes
    Bridge to
    the 2-lane 40mph Widnes-Clearway leading up past Widnes B&Q & Focus DIY.

    Green/black Golf 16V GTI sped down the sliproad, until 1 foot from me,
    trying to overtake.
    The slip-road drops 150yds down from the bridge-road, goes under the
    bridge-road to
    the Widnes-Clearway for a total of 300yds. He had 100yds to go, the road is
    V-cutting banked by kerbing/armco & suspension-bridge concrete footings.

    This delay of 100yds proved too much: he forced past before the road breaks
    into 2 lanes
    forcing my left front to jump up onto the kerb. I piped the horn twice as I
    corrected the car.

    Cutting me up, he thankfully sped off.
    The Clearway as completely empty, I resumed 40mph & he was some way ahead.
    Only now he started jumping up & down inside the car, and jerking the car

    Attack #1 of 3 began:
    He repeatedly did partial emergency stops & lane changes, trying to force me
    to hit him.
    Slowing up to below 10mph (stalled out in 5th), he then accelerated hard
    away allowing
    me to recover some separation from traffic (13.5 tonne non-articulated
    truck) behind.

    The Clearway in front was *completely* clear into the distance.
    No-one would overtake me, but they acted like "gravity" keeping me near him.
    Clearway has no breakdown lane, armco shielded kerbs with no turnoff.
    Nowhere to go.

    I dropped to 8mph, he had gotten too far ahead, so suddenly sped off.
    Freedom. Not.

    Attack #2 began:
    100yds on, he suddenly does an emergency stop. I do emergency stop,
    but traffic behind keeps moving (13.5 tonne doesn't stop in wet).

    Same again, his jumping up & down is shaking his car around. His steering is
    rapid acceleration & deceleration. Myself calm, but terrified, 70+yr old by
    me terrified.

    This time I let the gap close to him and actually stop - because /that/
    gives me a gap
    behind me, so I *can* stop (lorry & traffic can see me stopped & has
    distance to stop).
    With me stopped, he has a choice - reverse to ram me (and I have space to
    with reverse selected & lights lit), or leave. He must reverse to attack. He
    speeds off.

    Rapidly, he is 1/2 mile away, and I crawl at 20mph. What was it all about.
    No-one would pass, I can't stop (Clearway, wet, no breakdown lane).

    Round the corner are traffic lights, a blind corner. They are red.
    The Golf is sat on the left, a "lifted americanised" red 4x4 toyota pickup
    sits by him.

    Attack #3 began:
    At 50-60 car lengths round the blind corner, I see lights red and him.
    I immediately slow sharply - since time is something I need and can create.

    He jumps out of the car, in white rage, screaming, with his door left open,
    races up the road towards me. I lock the brakes, and realise this is it.

    Lock doors all round, hazards on, I floor it in reverse and scream back up
    the road
    but have a 13.5 tonne truck behind me and several cars in the other lane.

    Stopped, he reaches me. I stay sat looking downwards and make no eye
    or noise or anything. You've seen road rage on television, this was worse.
    immediately banged on the window, and then punched at it repeatedly rocking
    the car. Each time I closed my eyes waiting for it to break. Each time it

    How I don't know, I sit far back partly behind the B-pillar so he was
    hitting the
    top corner which has thick rubber door seals. The window was fully up in its
    frame and seal, so preventing the glass flexing and shattering. Had he aimed
    nearer the middle with clenched fist aimed punches, he'd have been through.

    Arms waving, screaming, raging, he yanked at my door handle. Then moved
    to the rear door handle. Then kicking & punching the car body. He never
    he never stopped, he raged at an incredible pace & frenzy. He jumped in the
    kicking the door, then went for the wing mirror stamping on it repeatedly.
    glass shattered first, then the shell was ripped off, then the heated &
    hub snapped downwards, despite his repeated frenzy and screaming.

    His wet shoes, wet road, wet car & rain deflected a lot of the blows,
    Suddenly, he ran off, got back in his car & sped away.

    I got out to inspect the damage and pick up pieces, and take his licence
    Every lorry & car sat throughout the attack, just sat stunned.

    Moved on, into B&Q, rang the police. Told to go home & be contacted later.
    Then miraculously, the big lifted red 4x4 found me and offered to be a
    I guess he was the only one who could find me, the truck driver said he'd
    the police up the road and block it if the guy came back again.

    Thinking back the same car & driver raged at me in Runcorn.
    We have "red slow-down raised stripe-bars" on the road. I slowed down from
    30mph to 26-27mph & immediately re-accelerated to 30mph because I have to.
    I have massive spinal injuries from a cyst in my spine between L5 & Sacrum,
    degenerative facet-joints, lipping facet-joints, damage to joints & disks,
    nerve compression. Life is painful muscle-spasm or pain. Going over what is
    a rough 'rumble strip' is not comfortable for me, and many other drivers

    He raged at why I had to slow down, banging his hand down on the outside
    of his car and hurling his car at me. The strips last for about 4ft of road,
    it is
    a quick harsh speed-control measure, a very short speed-drop/re-accelerate.

    So I guess he wanted revenge for that. I don't know what it was all about.
    I remained calm throughout all, but I'm not able to defend myself.

    The police haven't yet contacted me, nor witness(es) as far as I know. They
    were too busy yesterday and today had 2 violent attacks in Runcorn Town.
    So Monday they get my full written statement & are on the look out for him.

    So nothing done as yet, surely licence plate = address on computers.

    I thought I'd share it, because it begs a need - for anyone on the road.
    Not for attacks #1 & #2, but for attacks like #3. Where you need only a
    few seconds video of an attacker, especially had he broken through.

    Truck & 4x4 driver both said they would have got out and torn him apart.
    In the UK the victim can not respond, until proven to be a victim.
    That is not by choice, but by law.

    My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road or in the street.

    The UK police will orbit the planet if no visit by Monday afternoon, I will
    visit them. A heated, motorised, painted door mirror is probably 300+.

    The other device I could do with is a panic alarm, which yells "help, help,
    call police, I am being attacked" at preferably 130dB(A). Someone must do
    one, not an alarm, but one that sounds alarm to either ward-off or get help.

    Spine didn't like that, you tense & brace a lot, which wrenches the area.
    The usual dog of first muscle-spasm, then nerve-pain, then headaches.

    Next Moss Side in the UK is the Drug/Violence shithole of
    what used to be fields of corn is now somewhat way off-field of humanity.
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 18, 2003
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  2. dorothy.bradbury

    Maze Guest

    That's terrible - I hope you're ok.
    I'd have run the bugger over!
    Maze, Jul 19, 2003
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  3. dorothy.bradbury

    Wayne Smith Guest

    Interesting read, Dorothy. Sorry about your bad spine, but at least
    you have one; your government, and therefore the people as a whole,
    is spineless. You don't need a video camera - you need a government
    "of the people, for the people", which would allow you to have a Smith
    & Wesson in your car for self protection! We all know the crime rate
    in England has skyrocketed since they took your guns, don't we?!
    Wayne Smith, Jul 19, 2003
  4. Thanks for the replies.

    Re protection - UK law requires you to be victim first, and/or use
    reasonable force.
    Intruder who is shot by UK farmer, gets legal aid to sue the farmer. Manure
    as settlement?
    The risk is then, whether anything of defence gets used on the defender.

    He settled for a wing mirror, so I guess had he got through the window he
    would have
    punched me a few times and that's it - can't see how his frantic energy
    could have lasted.
    Fortunately he wasn't carrying anything, made the TV filmed attacks look

    Re mini-video-camera - looks like the 007-toy-reject spycan might do.
    Few seconds, doesn't look very camera like, no flash anyway for video use.

    Will come down to whether it has simple 1-touch-record.
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 19, 2003
  5. dorothy.bradbury

    John Navas Guest


    In <BB3DE79B.FA70%> on 18 Jul 2003 23:06:23 GMT,
    It would probably just get you in more trouble, either with the attacker or
    with the authorities, even in Texas. Really bad idea.
    John Navas, Jul 19, 2003
  6. dorothy.bradbury

    John Navas Guest


    In <> on Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:42:13
    Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):

    Homicide Suicide Unintentional

    USA 4.08 (1999) 6.08 (1999) 0.42 (1999)
    Canada 0.54 (1999) 2.65 (1997) 0.15 (1997)
    Switzerland 0.50 (1999) 5.78 (1998) -
    Scotland 0.12 (1999) 0.27 (1999) -
    England/Wales 0.12 (1999/00) 0.22 (1999) 0.01 (1999)
    Japan 0.04 (1998) 0.04 (1995) <0.01 (1997)
    John Navas, Jul 19, 2003
  7. dorothy.bradbury

    MarkH Guest

    You don’t say how much you can afford, if price is not too much of a
    problem there is a Nokia cellphone that can do photos and video. This
    could be a very handy device to have on hand.
    MarkH, Jul 19, 2003
  8. just kill the bastard and we'll pay johnny cochran for you

    "dorothy.bradbury" schreef:
    Davidgilmour2003, Jul 19, 2003
  9. Sorry for this thread going off topic, my fault, but...

    MarkH wrote...
    Q: Can it store the video, or must it be sent to another "videophone"?

    I wasn't aware they did video, but that might be ideal.
    Storage is important, however transmit is also great because that allows the
    moving & duplication of evidence quickly away from the scene. Will

    Charlie D wrote...
    <snip> re Epson camera.

    I have a "still" camera, but I need one without flash.
    Flash into the face of an attacker is not going to help, plus somewhat minor
    in the situation it is technically illegal to discharge a flash gun in a car

    o Thanks for the replies
    o NRA, down-boy, keep on topic for the group :)

    3 areas to investigate, phones, "spycam" & perhaps recent digital cameras
    since they say they do video. It will come down to an easily-found 1-touch
    video re reaction time.

    The second baseball bat attack on Age Concern charity shop on Sat a.m., so
    Police too busy to call again. Those old nighties must be in demand, or
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 19, 2003
  10. No I didn't mean it like that re NRA *smile*.

    Thanks, but ridiculously those sprays aren't legal in the UK.

    I think a pepper spray should be legal, and the criteria was clear:
    o Until he broke the glass it is in the criminal damage area
    ---- video, photo, record, phone police & let them listen in
    o Once the glass broke the event defines the intent
    ---- pepper spray gets you dis-orientation time
    ---- which in the /right/ situation is ideal

    However, I was blocked in front - so nowhere to go.
    Two sets of un-sync'd traffic lights ahead, high UK traffic density.
    His car a Golf GTI 16V, mine 11yrs old, risk is high speed multiple

    Clearway with traffic like gravity pushing you forward to him stopped,
    no turn-offs, barriers either side, no breakdown lane. Nice eco design :)

    The solutions:
    o In a few weeks colleagues at GM USA are sorting out an industrial
    car-PC they use, with small video cameras. Just needs 12V, rugged.

    o For personal use, the VGA pen-cam should be ok re witnesses around.
    ---- Provides the video of assault, I can drop it under the seat then
    ---- Provides the "act or media frenzy" to get action.

    There are some other pen-cams, so I'll look at those too.
    GM colleague suggested the professional wireless pen-cam too.

    "Black-box cameras & panic systems" are very much on the agenda.
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 20, 2003
  11. I see someone else has mentioned a pepper spray - and as you point out, they
    are not legal in the UK.

    I know of a lady who was attacked (presumably for her handbag) and during
    the scuffle, she sprayed the guy in the face with her hairspray. Perhaps you
    could keep a can of the ickiest cheapest hairspray you can find (usually
    those are the sort that sting the eyes) in the car (nuder the seat or out of
    the sun but somewhere ready to hand would be good, as sunlight and
    pressurised cans never mix, obviously !) ? It might not have the exact same
    effect as pepper spray but I've got the stuff in my eyes accidently and
    bugger me, it stops you in your tracks.

    I also know a contact lens wearer who was victimised in the same way you
    were - but she had repeated road rage attacks over a period of time, and the
    sod always got away scot free and the police seemed uninterested in catching
    him. In the end she soaked him in the face with 10-10 contact lens soaking
    solution - this is stuff designed to disinfect contact lenses, then to be
    neutralised by a second step rinsing solution - and it contains hydrogen
    perioxide. I used to use it and I stopped doing so because if you forget to
    neutralise, you get hydrogen perioxide in your eye and I'm here to tell you
    that hurts like a total bastard, but it doesn't do you any lasting damage
    (other than convince you not to buy the poxy stuff ever again that is).

    It comes in a squeeze bottle and she grasped it firmly in both hands and let
    it go into his phizz. The guy in question fell back onto the floor clutching
    his eyes and she was never bothered by him again.

    "I just happened to have it lying here Officer - it was a panic reaction."

    You know what I mean ?

    Another thing I happen to have which I have thought might be useful in such
    a situation is a can of canned air. My ex husband gave it to me for cleaning
    the dust of fiddly electrical stuff. It seems pretty pressurised and makes a
    hell of a concentrated stream when it comes out - that in yer eye and you'd
    think twice about doing anything else to the bearer, I imagine. And it's
    just air - the lasting damage is probably minimal (thus making you less

    I used to have one of those personal panic alarms - the ones that make a
    very high pitched noise. Apparently the best way to use them is to shove 'em
    right in the ear'ole of your assailant, or as near as you can - then let 'em
    fly. You'll be expecting it and will brace yourself, but they will wonder
    what the blue **** has happened and will probably be deaf in that ear and
    somewhat pained for the next half hour, which is often off putting when
    you're trying to attack someone.

    I hope some of these ideas help. As others have said, it would have been
    nice to run the bugger down, but you'd have been writing this from the
    slammer if you had, no doubt. :-(

    Rachael the Wiccan Rat, Jul 20, 2003
  12. Thanks for the comments.

    o Yes, hairspray
    o Ideal if the window goes through

    Small compact versions available.

    There were 2 witnesses, lorry behind following me from Runcorn, and the red
    raised 4x4 in front similarly who witnessed the attack & criminal damage.
    4 lanes of traffic stopped, around 15-30 cars, there could be more.

    Forgot to do 3 quick photographs of he cars, and lorry, around the scene
    and exact location. There just might be video camera footage available too.

    Currently investigating the 8x2.5x6cm Mustek DV3000 handheld videocam.
    Easy for a passenger to hold pointed at the window, tiny & discrete.

    Ideal would be one with a Video-IN so acting as a DVR, Digital Video
    That allows a fixed in-vehicle camera, rather than the PC-type DVR
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 20, 2003
  13. Re cameras - a more innovative solution:

    o Archos do a video-input capable recorder
    ---- chips + hard drive = tiny + low-power + vast recording capability
    (start at journey start)

    o Any video camera can be used I *think*
    ---- simple pinhole pointing diagonally behind me at the driver door &

    Hands free, cheap, quality digital video recording.
    Usable portable backup/transfer hard drive for business use too re expenses.

    For the price, it makes a useful DVR for a surveillance/witness app.
    dorothy.bradbury, Jul 21, 2003
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