Anyone still shoot film?

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by Patrick L, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
    drugs began to take hold. I remember Jeremy Nixon <~$!~( )@(
    )> saying something like:
    I agree totally. The whole point of HDR was to compensate for some
    shortcomings of digi sensors and when it's done properly it's excellent.
    I can't stand overdone HDR, but the public in general seem to love it,
    ged knows why. Can't folk see that badly done HDR just looks wrong?
    Excellent. I'm tickled by the black building with the castle-alike on
    top. What a delightful flight of architectural fancy. I'd love to have
    an office or even a broom closet in one of those towers. I wonder if
    there's a courtyard in the middle... :)
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Feb 13, 2010
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  2. Well, those are different from the 9x12 cameras we've been discussing.
    4x5 holders are plentiful and easy to get (still being made); 9x12
    holders for old folders not so. (I guess Linhof is still making 9x12
    holders for their cameras, though.)
    David Nebenzahl, Feb 13, 2010
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  3. Patrick L

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    That's One PPG Place; it's actually not black, it's all glass.

    Jeremy Nixon, Feb 15, 2010
  4. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
    drugs began to take hold. I remember Jeremy Nixon <~$!~( )@(
    )> saying something like:
    Fantastic! It's like something from Gotham City.
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Feb 18, 2010
  5. Patrick L

    Peter Chant Guest

    Alan Browne. wrote:

    Quite an old thread. Anyway...

    Which means that I have a reasonable chance of not loosing them. As you
    suggest, when I'm gone the disks will probably go in the same skip as the
    negs. So what is the difference?

    Peter Chant, Oct 5, 2010
  6. Patrick L

    Jeff R. Guest

    A huge difference.
    One which will likely be responsible for the tragic (yes... "tragic"!) loss
    of countless, priceless images.

    Whe I was settling my grandfather's estate I happened upon some cigar boxes
    full of glass-plate negatives he had taken in the 20s and 30s. They were in
    perfect condition and yielded hitherto unseen (to us) priceless images of my
    family's history. In order to view them I simply had to hold them up to the

    When I die, and my son or my grandchildren settle my estate, they may well
    find a box of 3½" HDDs.
    (Or maybe a couple of hundred DVDs)

    What chance is there that they will have access to hardware capable of
    reading this media?
    The safe storage life for optical disks used to be quoted as 10 years.
    Who knows how long a HDD will last in storage before seizing up?

    Unless I can find a better solution to the archiving problem, I have to
    accept that my only alternative is to print them all out as 11x14s, on
    acid-free paper, and store them in lightproof box filled with inert gas.

    ....or copy them onto film/microfilm.

    Either option would take me months and gawd-knows how much money.
    (i.e.: "not likely")

    Don't discount this problem. It's a huge one, and the person who finds a
    satisfactory solution to it will make millions.
    Jeff R., Oct 5, 2010
  7. Patrick L

    Rol_Lei Nut Guest

    After the grandchildren have cracked the password or have gone through a
    legal hassle to have access....
    Rol_Lei Nut, Oct 5, 2010
  8. Patrick L

    Bruce Guest

    The difference is that when people find negatives, they realise what
    they are and are inclined to take a look at one or two in case they
    find something interesting. When they find CDs, they have no idea
    what is on them and are perhaps less likely to check? Perhaps a lot
    less likely?

    People recognise the potential value in negatives, either because of
    family memories they contain or because they might be worth money to
    other people. Look at the publicity around the recent discovery of
    old negatives that were thought to be by Ansel Adams. That publicity
    alerts people so that when they see a box of negatives, they are
    curious enough to take a look.

    I exhibit some prints at a gallery in London and occasionally sell one
    or two. The gallery owner often has people come to him with old
    negatives and glass plates that they have found in the attic of an
    elderly or deceased relative.

    He has sold prints of some of these at surprisingly high prices - they
    were not by well-known photographers, but the images gave glimpses of
    bygone times that people find interesting. There seems to be a strong
    demand for them. I have bought some prints of old images myself (not
    from his gallery) but they are by well-known photographers, especially
    Frank Meadow Sutcliffe.

    I somehow doubt that a comparable route to old images will exist when
    relatives find old CD- and DVD-ROMs with no identifying markings. They
    are much more likely to be discarded without a second thought.
    Bruce, Oct 5, 2010
  9. Patrick L

    Joe Makowiec Guest

    While I agree with Bill Graham that some method where image files will
    continually be rolled over into more recent storage technology is good,
    the other problem is format rot. Even if the files are pristine 20 years
    from now, will jpeg still be a readable format? For example - do you
    have any WordStar files? If so, do you have anything which will still
    read them? It will be even worse for more closely held formats, like
    camera raw files.
    Joe Makowiec, Oct 5, 2010
  10. No but I have a copy of WordStar 3.3 for MS/DOS and WordPerfect 4.2 and 5.2,
    all three of which run under Windows 7.

    Somewhere around I have a CP/M emulator that runs under MS/DOS (so you can run
    8080/Z80 WordStar etc. It's still available for download, it was on a PC/Blue
    library disk and I found it with a web search a few months ago for someone.

    I also have most versions of MacWrite including the first one on 400k floppies
    (along with hard disk, CD and DVD copies), MacWrite 5, MacWrite II, WordPerfect
    Mac 1,2 and 3.5e, MS Word 5 (for the Mac), and a bunch of other programs.

    I also have film cameras, film and a complete black and white darkroom.

    However I need to downsize and if anyone wants a Bessler 23CII and is willing
    to come to Jerusalem to pick it up, they are welcome to it. I probably could
    give them 3 trays, a developing tank and some film too.

    You're on your own for a safelight, changing bag, easel, tongs, chemicals,

    I'm keeping a smaller Durst enlarger which I bought because it came with a
    Schneider lens.

    Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Oct 5, 2010
  11. Patrick L

    Walter Banks Guest

    File formats are surprisingly well preserved in a very redundant
    form on the internet. Hardware that will still read the media
    is likely to be the limiting issue.

    A few months ago I went back and read all of the 720K and 1.4M
    backup disks that were not already online at my company. In reading
    several hundred disks that averaged 20 years old I had three hard
    read errors. Two were on disks that were created 3 days apart making
    them suspect either media or the original drives they were created

    All of the disks were read on a 1.4M drive including the 720K disks.
    I would have expected the failure rate at the time they were created
    to be higher than three failures. Software disk drivers have improved
    over time to be able to reliably read media that previously would
    simply have been flagged as an error.

    Lots of things are changing. One is computer independent media.
    We are not far away from terabyte USB and SD Silicon drives.
    There is a local drugstore chain that sells SD drives as digital
    film a marketing approach that seems to be working. I overheard
    a shopper in a grocery store recently telling her fried that she
    had to go next door and buy more digital film because her current
    film was almost full. This is a store that sells sdcards at the
    checkout for about half the cost of "digital Film"

    The interface for sdcards is so simple maybe they were on to
    something. Shoot and never erase buy "digital film" and label
    it with Grandpa's 90th birthday party. Hacking together a reader
    in 2080 might still be possible.

    Go Figure

    Walter Banks, Oct 5, 2010
  12. Which reminds me of the first art critic in Mel Brook's "History of the World,
    Part I". :)

    Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Oct 6, 2010
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