attractive pictures versus accurate pictures, and the ICC

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by Dale, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Dale

    Dale Guest

    I have been been reading on
    http://www.color.org (ICC)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGB
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIECAM

    the adoption of sRGB, although a linear transform to CIE, introduces a
    device paradigm as opposed to a device independent paradigm, and has
    taken ICC far astray from its original purpose, not totally bad though

    there also is a current focus on attractive pictures versus accurate
    pictures, obtain by scene balance algorithms

    sRGB and evolutions from it and attractive pictures will overtake
    accurate pictures in consumer markets, professional portrait markets,
    newspapers, motion picture markets and television markets, people in
    these markets prefer to look better than they actually do, a concept in
    art for a long time

    but you could get the choice of accurate versus attractive, if an RGB
    based on the eye (CIE) rather than an RGB based on video like sRGB

    sRGB does not allow for the choice of accurate outside of video

    in fact sRGB's paradigm has prevented color/appearance management to
    enter digital photography as admitted by the ICC

    advancements in appearance like scene balance algorithms might aid in
    accurate appearance versus accurate color (CIECAM)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIECAM

    commercial photography and commercial prepress markets require a degree
    of accuracy in appearance,, some other markets fall into this category
    that I may or may not know, as for what I know digital photography has
    not taken over fully here, even after 20-30 years

    the hardware and software of having an actual CIE RGB only requires a
    gamma lookup tables and Luv or Lxy matrix conversion from video RGB's,
    matrix conversions and one dimensional lookup tables are supported by
    ICC (this whole post has a different flavor if Kodak's scanner
    intellectual property from the Eikonix acquisition in this regard
    applies to cameras too)

    why not take the little effort of a matrix and lookup tables that gives
    you the option of accurate AND attractive, even video is changing, sRGB
    is really geared to CRT display, there is LCD now, there is plasma,
    there is LED, there is OLED, digital projectors, and maybe more I do not
    know

    also, the same scene balance algorithms that give you attractive
    pictures, can be used for accurate pictures, for instance white point
    from a digital photo can be used as its relative colorimetry in
    appearance accurate workflows

    perhaps we have been having a war in this industry since I was involved
    about 20 years ago, I remember when sRGB was first suggested for an ICC
    standard and said it would result in no ICC profiles not being used,
    this is what has happened, the consumer video industry has left the
    professional markets behind, typical consumer maneuvering at Kodak R&D
    when I was there, I am not that familiar with ProPhotoRGB but I will
    study it, it probably complements sRGB workflows

    someone, perhaps ICC, ought to do a research project of use-cases in
    imaging markets, and see where attractive color is preferred over
    accurate color, and then a central color/appearance paradigm that
    complements as many markets as possible, not just consumer
     
    Dale, Feb 23, 2014
    #1
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  2. Dale

    Dale Guest


    the id, a part of the ego, is a construction of hopes
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

    these hopes can be born of instinct, experience, or ideals

    without negative reinforcement, fear, the id continues

    with negative reinforcement a super-ego (morality) is created to change
    the id if said hopes are not ideal

    so there are cycles of hope and fear for ALL, everyone is a troll,
    because the ego is always uncertain due to solipsism
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

    some are trolls for money, just because mine are for social pleasure
    does not make them less in value, in debate that is an ad hominem attack

    there are better trolls than others as they take on Ego Ideal
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_ideal
    ideal egos are based on instinct, experience or ideals


    If facebook and twitter can get into dictionaries, I can replace periods
    with commas
     
    Dale, Feb 23, 2014
    #2
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  3. Dale

    Mort Guest

    I cannot help but quote here a statement which applies to accurate
    versus beautiful colors, but was made on another topic.

    It was stated that language translations are like mistresses:
    The beautiful ones are not faithful, and the faithful ones are not
    beautiful.

    Mort Linder
     
    Mort, Feb 25, 2014
    #3
  4. Dale

    Dale Guest

    I let women take the lead until they trust me to lead together, sexual
    faithfulness is not as important as social faithfulness to me, as long
    as children are considered in the process
     
    Dale, Feb 26, 2014
    #4
  5. Dale

    Mort Guest


    My point was not sexual, but simply that frequently what people seem to
    prefer is not always accurate, but is considered to be pretty. Many
    people prefer bright, even gaudy colors, and find accurate color
    renditions to be unattractive.

    Mort Linder
     
    Mort, Feb 26, 2014
    #5
  6. Dale

    Dale Guest

    most consumers prefer the "pop" saturation of consumer films
     
    Dale, Feb 28, 2014
    #6
  7. Dale

    Guest Guest

    which they can easily get in digital, and more accurate too.
     
    Guest, Feb 28, 2014
    #7
  8. Dale

    Dale Guest

    you need an abstract profile to get that, or editing, easy enough, yes

    I am not proposing to use film, just some thoughts

    remember that colorants and substrates are still a chemical concern

    even colorants used in additive systems like video

    the CPU of your computer is made of chemistry

    some of analog and digital technology, if only the manipulation
    algorithms, are of value

    the looks and feels of film,, etc. can be put into abstract profiles for
    digital
     
    Dale, Feb 28, 2014
    #8
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