B&H has the Nikon D700 in stock

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Andrew Koenig, Jul 25, 2008.

  1. Andrew Koenig

    Andy Hall Guest

    Is it worth having VR on a lens like this though? i.e. would it be
    used other than on a tripod or equivalent? AIUI, VR can make image
    results worse in these cases.
     
    Andy Hall, Aug 1, 2008
    #21
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  2. The option to have VR is always a plus even though you might not use it. In
    most action shooting where panning is the norm you would be turning VR off.
    I could see VR being useful on this for some extremely low light shooting
    where you might not get the shot otherwise.



    Rita
    --
    Stamping out Internet stupidity one idiot at a time. Never empower the
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    Rita Berkowitz, Aug 1, 2008
    #22
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  3. Andrew Koenig

    Andy Hall Guest

    Even on a tripod?

    I'm surprised....
     
    Andy Hall, Aug 1, 2008
    #23
  4. Andrew Koenig

    Ray Paseur Guest

    Not to fan the flames, but I will say from my experience that having the VR
    switched on when my long lenses are mounted on a tripod has never caused me
    any image degradation that was visible to the client eye. The books all
    say "turn it off" and I would expect that doing so will prolong battery
    life.
     
    Ray Paseur, Aug 1, 2008
    #24
  5. Andrew Koenig

    Richard Guest

    You find any camera tripod (camera tripod makers are clueless about how to
    build really solid platforms, they build tripod first with weight in mind)
    that can hold a pro body and a 600mm lens with no vibration and you deserve
    a medal. In that case, the VR will help.
     
    Richard, Aug 1, 2008
    #25
  6. Andrew Koenig

    D-Mac Guest

    VR or IS is rotating gyros in the lens barrel. Early image stabilisers
    often vibrated, some even wobbled the camera in minute ways. These were
    disastrous when used on a tripod. For the most part, current technology
    has overcome these early issues and using a tripod with IS or VR
    switched on is quite ok.
     
    D-Mac, Aug 2, 2008
    #26
  7. The issue is VR/IS isn't going to help on a tripod or panning. Best to keep
    it off.



    Rita
    --
    Stamping out Internet stupidity one idiot at a time. Never empower the
    idiot, embrace it and stimulate it. For more details go to the Usenet
    Stimulus Project page.

    http://ritaberk.myhosting247.com
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Aug 2, 2008
    #27
  8. Andrew Koenig

    Andy Hall Guest

    I don't think that there are any flames here, Ray, so thanks for your
    thoughts. I have noticed that battery life with a large lens and VR
    turned on using an EN-EL3a is reduced. I carry a couple of spares
    on a typical day out.

    With the use of the MB-D10 and EN-EL4 the battery life becomes less of
    an issue
     
    Andy Hall, Aug 2, 2008
    #28
  9. Andrew Koenig

    Andy Hall Guest

    I need to run some more tests on technique comparing one thing at a time.
     
    Andy Hall, Aug 2, 2008
    #29
  10. Andrew Koenig

    Andy Hall Guest

    I increasingly realise that there are the trade offs between
    weight/portability and technical achievement.

    I've invested in a fairly chunky Gitzo tripod plus head and support and
    have been comparing that with use of a bean bag in various
    combinations. For comparison I've also tried clamping the camera to
    a very solid and heavy concrete block.

    Additionally, I've been trying out different shutter release techniques
    including remote wireless release and mirror up.

    I can imagine that VR could do something about general vibration but
    whether it can do anything about vibration (of presumably camera
    components) when the shutter is released I am not so sure.

    It does appear so far that the shutter operation has a greater impact
    on results than the tripod/support.

    Looking at this has not been hugely scientific as yet. I've used
    shots of the beaks of birds and cards with vertical and horizontal
    lines photographed from a distance. From the latter I can see
    whether motion is vertical, horizontal or both.

    To be fair, I have been somewhat extreme about it by zooming the lens
    in to about 90-95% of its max. and then in Lightroom or Capture NX
    zooming and cropping. Unless the camera support is poor, the
    vibration effects are noticable only just before the pixels start to be
    noticable.

    Any other thoughts welcome.
     
    Andy Hall, Aug 2, 2008
    #30
  11. Andrew Koenig

    Andy Hall Guest

    I'm going to be trying a bunch of tests this weekend changing one thing
    at a time to see where the main differences are.

    As a matter of interest, why do you say that VR doesn't help when panning?
     
    Andy Hall, Aug 2, 2008
    #31
  12. Andy Hall wrote:
    []
    It does help with panning.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Aug 2, 2008
    #32
  13. That should give you some conclusive proof of the results.
    I've did my own testing and find that when panning at slow shutter speed
    with VR on the images aren't razor sharp as they are with it off. Of course
    this can be attributed to my technique. I'm just so used to shooting with
    VR off that it isn't and issue for me anymore. Even when shooting the
    105/2.8 VR I keep it off.



    Rita
    --
    Stamping out Internet stupidity one idiot at a time. Never empower the
    idiot, embrace it and stimulate it. For more details go to the Usenet
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    http://ritaberk.myhosting247.com
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Aug 2, 2008
    #33
  14. I wouldn't make that claim when you have enough shutter speed to get crisp
    images. With some of the earlier generation VR lenses it is recommended
    that VR be off when panning. The newer VRII lenses have a built in sensor
    that limits and even turns VR when it sense panning. At the end of the day
    it's all about the shutter speed.




    Rita
    --
    Stamping out Internet stupidity one idiot at a time. Never empower the
    idiot, embrace it and stimulate it. For more details go to the Usenet
    Stimulus Project page.

    http://ritaberk.myhosting247.com
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Aug 2, 2008
    #34
  15. Andrew Koenig

    Andy Hall Guest

    Some can be difficult though. For example, pressing of shutter
    release affects mirror and other internal mechanics and may also cause
    movement of body on tripod.


    I wonder how though.
     
    Andy Hall, Aug 2, 2008
    #35
  16. You can always use a cable release or RF trigger.
    It's not that hard holding a lens steady or panning with it. I guess it
    take practice. Too many people look at VR/IS as a crutch and start getting
    sloppy.



    Rita
    --
    Stamping out Internet stupidity one idiot at a time. Never empower the
    idiot, embrace it and stimulate it. For more details go to the Usenet
    Stimulus Project page.

    http://ritaberk.myhosting247.com
     
    Rita Berkowitz, Aug 2, 2008
    #36
  17. Andrew Koenig

    Andy Hall Guest

    Yes I know, I have an RF one. This will take out potential
    movement of the body resulting from manually pressing the button on the
    camera.

    However, when considering the other components such as mirror and
    shutter, would movement of those directly affect the image or would it
    be their movement causing movement of body on tripod?

    If the camera is fixed down to a lump of concrete and mirror is set to
    up, this doesn't leave much that can move. So then I wonder what would
    be left that can impact the image. I wonder at that stage whether
    fast shutter again helps because of less of a mechanical disturbance?
     
    Andy Hall, Aug 2, 2008
    #37
  18. Andrew Koenig

    Paul Furman Guest

    Right, that would be rock solid. This is the easiest way to do macros:
    clamp the camera to a granite countertop.

    --
    Paul Furman
    www.edgehill.net
    www.baynatives.com

    all google groups messages filtered due to spam
     
    Paul Furman, Aug 2, 2008
    #38
  19. Andrew Koenig

    Richard Guest

    Years ago, Modern Photography anchored cameras to a concrete wall to test
    the effects of shutter/mirror slap. Even doing that, there was noticeable
    effects from slap at speeds like 1/10 to 1/30 of a second, they could tell
    which shots camera from which cameras simply by looking at the minute blur
    imparted to them, after having judged each camera's shutter/mirror slap
    effects.
    With tripods, damp time is important, how fast does the tripod steady down
    to a stable state after being touched. With long teles, fast damp times
    become tougher and tougher for the tripod to achieve. High frequency
    vibration can be triggered by mirror/shutter slap, slight breeze, and you
    might never even know it until you get the images on a screen.
    Here's an example of a big tripod designed to support a large telescope
    (3900mm focal length) at high powers with little vibration and fast damp
    time. Note the size of the old Manfrotto Standard Head. This tripod
    unfortunately, isn't something you can lug into the field very easily.
    http://www.pbase.com/andersonrm/image/101130219
     
    Richard, Aug 3, 2008
    #39
  20. Andrew Koenig

    Andy Hall Guest

    Thanks for this Richard.

    Yes I do think that the effects are worse at lower shutter speeds.
    That's even with mirror up and the tripod apparently stable. Having
    said that, certainly making sure that the tripod is stable and solid is
    a good thing. It's a pity that physics doesn't really allow us to
    add stability without adding a lot of mass
     
    Andy Hall, Aug 3, 2008
    #40
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