Back up Hi8 - D8 masters to another D8 tape via firewire or to JVC S-VHS?

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by chrisylvania, Oct 16, 2004.

  1. chrisylvania

    chrisylvania Guest

    I have 21 Hi8 analog tapes (SONY Hi8 cam), 5 D8 (SONY D8 cam) tapes and 15
    VHS tapes that are not backed up in anyway. I cannot attribute a value in
    dollars to express how important they are - so they need to backed up

    There are a lot of options that I have explored but I am down to these

    1) Connect my Sony DCR-TRV460 and begin the process of capturing video via
    firewire to my PC and systematically burning it to DVD+R discs. WHY ITS
    GOOD - because I have a digital capture that is not compressed anymore than
    the (D25? 5:1) that is transferred to the computer. WHY IT IS BAD - At
    approx 12-13GB per hour of video this means that I will have to consume
    three DVD+R's for each hour of video. That is costly!

    1A) Can a good argument be made to use NERO and compress this captured video
    to DVD in MPEG2 or MPEG4? Which one? What compression variables should be
    used or avoided for video recorded on one chip consumer cameras?

    2) Connect my Sony DCR-TRV460 via S-video to my JVC S-VHS recorder. Plug in
    the tapes and start making back ups. WHY ITS GOOD - Easy, fast and
    economical (plus I can create a log of the content). WHY ITS BAD - I will
    continue to have some tapes nearing eleven years old continue to decay until
    I can get them stored digitally.

    3) Connect my Sony DCR-TRV460 via firewire to my relatives Canon D8
    camcorder. Begin transferring data and recording them to another set of
    8mm/hi8/d8 tapes.

    I would appreciate your experiences, recommendations or lessons learned. I
    have done a lot of 35mm film archiving/ scanning and the value of these
    discussion groups helped tremendously in that regard. Thank you.
    chrisylvania, Oct 16, 2004
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  2. chrisylvania

    Mike Kujbida Guest

    Assuming your VHS tapes were 2-hr. mode only, your collection totals a
    maximum of 77 hr. of footage.
    At 3 DVDs/ hr. and blank DVDs at $0.50 ea., you're looking at $115.00 total.
    The other way is to buy (77 tapes x 13 GB/gr.) 1000 GB. worth of hard
    drives. Newegg has 250 GB WD SATA drives for $160 ea. which comes to
    Seems to me like DVDs are the way to go. Make sure to buy good name-brand
    media. I'd also make at least 2 copies of each and store them separately -
    just in case.

    Mike Kujbida, Oct 17, 2004
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  3. chrisylvania

    AnthonyR Guest

    Wow, That's a lot to backup, and I probably have just as many in my closet
    to do also.
    Of course, I doubt the complete tapes are full, so you might not have that
    many exact hours to transfer
    but still.
    What I am planning is to convert to digital (hoping to run through a 3d comb
    filter first, either software or hardware) to remove all the noise and
    garbage from vhs and hi8 and then store digitally on dv tapes.
    That will be expensive but I think worth it, although at 50cents a dvd,
    dvd's might even be cheaper. Except more work maybe, cause I figure you can
    make the dv copy as it is being transcoded into digital.
    Then I plan to edit and create viewable and enjoyable finished copies on
    mpeg2 encoded dvd's with only the new mini DV tapes as my new source
    material for future use.
    I guess 3 dvd's per hour might work also, I need to look into that, but then
    again I am still paying a little more for blanks, $19.99 for 25 TDK from
    Costco was my last purchase.
    I am looking into the Canopus ADVC-300 digital converter with built in TBC
    stabilizer and 3D Comb filtering etc... to do the conversion rather than my
    For old vhs a TBC is very helpful to prevent jitters and audio glitches that
    are caused by worn time code on the old tapes.
    Hope this helps,
    AnthonyR, Oct 17, 2004
  4. chrisylvania

    L. P. LePage Guest

    I would use the Copy to DV then to DVD but would use DIvx or mpeg4 or wmv to
    save space.
    my 2c
    L. P. LePage, Oct 19, 2004
  5. chrisylvania

    DaveC Guest

    3) Connect my Sony DCR-TRV460 via firewire to my relatives Canon D8
    What is this? Canon never made a D8 camcorder? Only Sony and
    Hitachi have made D8 camcorders as far as I know?

    What I would do is take 2 D8 camcorders and a 4-pin to 4-pin firewire
    cable and make digital dubs. Every 10 years I would make new digital
    dubs from the old ones but not throw away or erase the original
    digital dubs. Every 10 years I would take the 10 year old tapes and
    dub them to new tapes but still retain all previous dubs. If at some
    point you discover a bad spot on a current digital dub I would just go
    back to previous copies until I found one where it was still good.
    Always use the SP speed. I would expect even 30 or 40 year old D8
    tapes to still play if stored properly. I trust magnetic tapes more
    than the dye on burned DVD's. Time will tell which holds up best.

    DaveC, Oct 20, 2004

  6. If I were you I would use the Sony DCR_TRV460 to digitize the Hi 8
    tapes and transfer via Firewire to a mini DV camcorder to make mini DV
    copies instead of D8 copies. D8 is being phased out and you may have a
    hard time finding a working D8 player in the future. However mini DV
    players will be much easier to find. I would also make mini DV copies
    of the D8 tapes. This way you do not lose any resolution for the Hi8
    and D8 videos and mini DV tape is cheaper than storing the AVI files
    broken into pieces spanning several DVDs. Magnetic media is pretty
    robust. I have Hi8 tapes from 13 years ago that are still good. I do
    not yet trust all DVD-R/+R disks for longevity.

    For the VHS tapes, since they are already relatively poor resolution
    compared to D8, I would play them in a good VCR and digitize them
    using the analog to digital pass thru feature of the Sony DCR-TRV 460
    and capture via Firewire to AVI files on the computer, then convert to
    MPEG2 and burn DVDs. For added security you can also store the AVI's
    on mini DV tape as well, not for the resolution, but for the longevity
    of the media.
    Ralfe Cookson, Oct 21, 2004
  7. Yes, Ralfe, that is right.
    To dub VHS to either D8 or miniDV one_to_one is just wasting of time and
    money. DVD is the most effective way there I think.
    Roman Svihorik, Oct 21, 2004
  8. chrisylvania

    cribis Guest

    Great recommendations everyone!. Since firewire connections utilize
    the embeded D25 format in the cameras I have decided to go ahead and
    use a new 16 DVD drive to burn my footage. Duplication of those DVDs
    is very easy with Roxio suite so that holds a slight advantage to me
    over tape backups - only my opinion of course. Thanks!
    cribis, Jan 27, 2005
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