battery, charger, memory, and download port compatibility between a 250 dollar camera and a 150 doll

Discussion in 'Photography' started by mm, Dec 2, 2007.

  1. mm

    mm Guest

    Battery, charger, memory, and download port compatibility between a
    250 dollar camera and a 150 dollar one.

    I just bought a Fujica S5700, that uses 4AA battteries, rechargeable,
    and SD memory iirc, and I bought a card reader because he said one
    could get a virus from the PC if he connected the camera straight to
    the PCfor uploading the pictures to the PC.

    There are, afaict, only two stores to shop at here, unless I was
    looking for somethign specific maybe. Is there some way to buy a good
    much smaller camera, no viewfinder, 4:1 or maybe 3:1 zoom, fewer
    options but still about 150 dollars, that will fit in my pocket all
    the time without bothering me, and have compatible, that is, matching
    memory cards, and/or batteries, and/or the card reader and USB cable,
    so that when I travel, I won't have to carry a full two sets of these
    things, and so that if I lose or damage the memory, I won't have to
    scramble to get a replacment, I can just borrow from the other camera.

    It looks like the first small camera I'm serious about, a Canon x-785
    for about 150 or a little more, doesn't use any of what my Fujica
    S5700 uses. The battery is shaped like a resonating crystal from a ham
    radio or color tv, but thinner (which makes sense since I want the
    camera to be thin). This also means the battery charger is different.
    The memory seems to be from a different series, so the card reader is
    different, and maybe the USB cable is different. Is there another
    brand instead of Canon, or if I go back to Fujica would that increase
    compatiblitly, or is it the small size of the camera, not the brand,
    that causs them to use these incompatible parts.

    Normally I'm cheap and I would be kicking myself that I just spend 250
    or more on this camera and I already want a smaller one -- like why
    didn't i get the smaller one and forget the bigger one -- but somehow
    I don't care this time. I think it's because digital camers are
    sufficiently advanced and sufficiently cheap that I don't think having
    two models for different circumstances. And because pictures are
    essential to remmber what one has seen.

    Thanks a lot.
    mm, Dec 2, 2007
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  2. mm


    Helluva salesman...

    Is there a question in here?
    DBLEXPOSURE, Dec 2, 2007
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  3. If I was you, I would never shop there again.
    The salesman told you an outright and deliberate lie in order to sell you an
    extra item.

    Think of it this way...
    If a virus could transfer from your PC to your camera via the USB cable,
    then could it not equally transfer from your PC to your camera via the
    memory card afetr you take it out of the card reader and insert it back into
    the camera?
    The truth is, your camera would need to be powered by a windows operating
    system for it to be vulnerable to windows virii.
    As your camera doesn't run a windows operating system, you have zero risk of
    transferring a virus to your camera.

    On top of this, consider that your camera doesn't have any storage of its
    The only storage medium in your camera is your memory card. So if that were
    to somehow get an undesirable file on it, you would just take out the memory
    card, and the infection would be gone, as if by magic.

    Feel free to use your USB cable as much as you like. It's perfectly safe.

    The salesman is a blatant liar, and you should name and shame the store in
    question, as this sort of behaviour will tarnish th ereputation of the good,
    honest and reputable sellers.
    \(not quite so\) Fat Sam, Dec 2, 2007
  4. mm

    mm Guest

    The guy actually addressed this. He, or she, said that *because*
    there was no memory in the computer, the only place for the virus to
    go was into the chip!
    It's been in business since 1945, they say. And seem to do a good
    business. It's surprising to naive me that they would lie for a 10
    dollar sale, part of which they have to pay to get the item wholesale.

    OTOH, a dentist wanted to sell me a mouth guard for 150 dollars, when
    I didn't actually grind my teeth and I could have stopped if I had
    been. I couldn't believe he would sell his honor for a mere 150
    dollars (minus a bit for materials, and his time to make it (although
    if business wasn't good, he might have had plenty of time. In fact I
    think he was a children's dentist but when I asked the secretary to
    refer me to an adult's dentist, she said he would be glad to see me!
    Should I have been suspicious then?)
    mm, Dec 3, 2007
  5. mm

    mm Guest

    It's not true? What got this started is that a guy in the dorm I'm
    staying at couldn't use his camera anymore, got some message about his
    chip on the screen, so since he was in class, I took it in for him and
    the tech at the camera shop said that he might have a virus, and after
    10 minutes he said that he could get the pictures off, 149 of them,
    and that the owner could reformat the disk and reuse it.

    (But it was only 256M, so the owner wanted me to buy a bigger one

    They said they thought the virus arrived from the laptop when he
    stored his pictures from the camera to the laptop, but he has no
    laptop with him, nothing. So that doesn't explain the camera

    But still, I thought they jumped to that conclusion because it is real
    possibility, to get a virus in the camera from the computer, and that
    the chip reader solves that somehow???

    It was only 10 dollars and I bought one too. The little camera came
    with a chip reader. Maybe it has no USB port, Otherwise, why would
    they do that if a cord from the camera was just as good (so you could
    drop off the chip, put in a new one and not have to leave the camera
    at all?)

    As to the hidden question :) it was basically: Is there some way to
    buy a good small camera that will fit in a pocket, no viewfinder, 4:1
    or maybe 3:1 zoom, fewer options but still about 150 dollars, and
    have accessories that are the same as for the Fujica S5700, ], that
    is, matching memory cards, and/or batteries, and/or the card reader
    and USB cable?

    So that when I travel, even a weekend or day trip, I won't have to
    carry a full two sets of these things, and so that if I lose or damage
    the memory, I won't have to scramble to get a replacment, I can just
    borrow from the other camera.
    mm, Dec 3, 2007
  6. Which has no way of storing the virus because it's not a memory chip, and
    that means you just have to switch the camera off then back on again to get
    rid of it.
    It doesn't mean they won't lie to make a sale.
    Was the salesman maybe working to a sales target?
    It could have been that he was told to sell X-number of units that month,
    otherwise he wouldn't get his bonus.
    It doesn't really matter that they had to buy it in wholesale. The very fact
    that they're buying it wholesale means they're buying it for less than
    they're selling it to you, so they're making a profit on it. Even if that's
    only a $2.
    If they try that trick on with everyone who comes into the shop to buy a
    camera, and they manage to sell 50 cameras that day, they've made a cool
    $100 profit that they wouldn't otherwise have.
    I never put my trust in the honesty of salespeople. I've worked in sales,
    and I know that people will bend the truth to make a sale if they think they
    can get away with it.
    My old dad has a terrible habit of going into computer shops and saying to
    the salespeople "Look, I don't understand these computer things, but I need
    a new widget and I'm going to need your advice".
    Last time, he only went in for printer cartridges, and he came out with a
    USB hub, and a wireless keyboard/mouse set.

    I find that the tactic these shysters use most often is to try and scare the
    unwitting buyer with horror stories involving the taboo word "Virus".
    With most non-techy folks, you just have to mention the word virus, and they
    go into a spin as they picture the letters and characters dropping off their
    screen and their hardware being rendered unuseable for the rest of eternity.
    The sales-hustlers know this, and they know that if they suggest the
    slightest hint that there might be a virus vulnerability, these poeple will
    panic so much that they would buy a bucket of rusty nails if the salesman
    told them it would protect them.
    When salesmen mention the word Virus to me during their patter, I end
    negotiations there and then and go elsewhere.
    But it's not just a mere $150.
    This is the mistake everyone makes when this happens to them.
    They think that they're the only person he's tried this scam on with.
    If he's done it to you, you can bet your bottom dollar that he's tried it
    with every single person who's walked through his door.
    Lets say he see's 100 patients in a day.
    Lets assume 25% of those fall for his scam and buy a $150 gumshield.
    Lets assume that the materials cost him around $10 a pop.
    That's $3500 clear profit every day, or $17500 a week.
    That's quite literally a license to print money.

    People fall for it because the amount he's charging them individually
    doesn't seem too huge.
    They think (as you did) "Well, he can't be conning me. After all, it's
    hardly worth his while for a mere $xxx".
    But of course, all those small amounts pretty quickly add up into a very big
    pile of green folding paper.
    \(not quite so\) Fat Sam, Dec 3, 2007
  7. mm

    Rob Morley Guest

    so) Fat Sam
    Now I'm no expert when it comes to digital cameras, but it seems to me
    that some cameras can have their firmware upgraded via USB. If this can
    be controlled by an application on the host PC without pressing buttons
    on the camera then it would be possible for a rogue PC application to
    modify the firmware without the user's knowledge. The memory card
    stores only data, and is not executable (at least as far as the camera
    is concerned) so the worst that can happen if you read it in a dedicated
    card reader is that the formatting can be destroyed - it will have no
    effect on the camera. So in theory the salesman is quite correct.
    Whether there are any viruses (not virii - that's not a real word) "in
    the wild" that do this is an altogether different matter, of course.
    (Strictly speaking it probably wouldn't be a virus, as they are by
    definition self-replicating, which means that the firmware would have to
    be modified to enable it to infect another PC that the camera was
    connected to - that would be quite a lot more difficult then just
    trashing the camera.)
    Rob Morley, Dec 3, 2007
  8. In your opinion, do you think the salesman was profiteering through
    scaremongering by cashing in on the customers lack of technical savvy?
    I certainly do.
    \(not quite so\) Fat Sam, Dec 3, 2007
  9. mm

    Rob Morley Guest

    so) Fat Sam
    The salesman /might/ have believed that there's a real risk of damage,
    but unfortunately it's probably more likely that he was just padding out
    the sale.
    Rob Morley, Dec 3, 2007
  10. That's what I think he was doing. The weight of probability definitely leans
    towards that conclusion.
    \(not quite so\) Fat Sam, Dec 3, 2007
  11. mm

    mm Guest

    My mother once took a 15 year old car that my 85 year old cousin had
    given me, into a gas station, and said, "My son is going off to
    college, could you fix this up for him." I don't know what came over
    her. She's usually very good. And although the gas station did a
    couple things that I don't think had to be done, and other things I
    could have done for 1/5 the price, to be fair, they really didn't take
    advantage of her considering what they could have done, and that
    everything they did almost everyone would say had to be done.

    Unrelated: I don't know if this was the same station that "rebuilt"
    her 4 barrel carburetor and left it so there was a puddle of gasoline
    at least a half inch deep on the intake manifold of the v-8. When she
    took it back, they didn't want to do anything she said. I made a
    gasket for just one screw out of cardboard or something and the car
    was fine after that.
    I wish I knew what the text of the message was that my friend got, but
    what do you think made his chip not usable anymore, that they could
    get the pictures off anyway? { And tell him the chip could be fixed
    by formatting.) Might he have been able to do it himself if he had a
    computer with him, or at an internet cafe where I think they were
    charging under 5 dollars to make a CD from a camera.
    Good point. I'm glad I didn't bite. Pun intended.
    mm, Dec 5, 2007
  12. mm

    mm Guest

    Well, I bought the reader so I guess I will use it (I'm also able to
    use the USB cable that came with it for y new MP3 player, which is
    supposed to plug straight into the computer but there is some ridge on
    the laptop that makes that verry difficult. So I was going to have to
    buy a cable.)

    I haven't opened the door to the chip yet, but I suppose taking the
    chip out and putting it back in won't be so difficult. I know there is
    a slide I have to move to put it back in the camera, and also in the
    reader I suppose.

    Do you guys know anything about MP3 players?. The manual that came
    this TEAC is terrible, I've never had one before, and what is
    especially confusing is the Lock command. It has settings for
    Disabled, 10 seconds, 5 minutes, and 30 minutes. What are they
    talking about?

    When I don't lock it, my shirt pocket keeps stopping it or moving to
    the next file.
    mm, Dec 5, 2007

  13. Well, it depends whether it what you mean by "the chip". Was it the chip in
    the memory card or the procesor inside the camera?

    If it was the memory card, then it might have been something as simple as it
    not being seated correctly on the electrodes in the slot. A quick jiggle and
    a firm push home might have fixed it.
    Or if the memory card had become corrupt - which does happen - there are
    software tools available on the internet that you can download for free
    which will recover lost, corrupt and erased data from a memory card. I've
    used them myself in the past, and got great results.

    If it was the processor chip that had developed a fault, then I sincerely
    doubt that a local camera shop would have the knowledge, experience, or
    diagnostic equipment to correctly isolate the fault, and repair it.
    When the internal electronics go pop in something like a digital camera, it
    generally has to be returned to the manufacturer, who locate, remove and
    replace the offending component.
    It's likely to be fairly expensive too, unless the camera is still under
    \(not quite so\) Fat Sam, Dec 5, 2007
  14. mm

    VilleBill Guest

    and it's possable that the salesman was just wrong in his understanding.

    Nobody has complete understanding of everything.

    Perhaps it would be wise to not automaticaly call all salesmen scumbags
    because some of them are.

    In other words; when you get the global award for 'spotless christian
    hero' then you may start to throw stones.....

    Untill then....... well..... wouldent it be more productive to simply
    walk back into the shop and ask for an explanation?

    Lets face it,,,,, hindsight is 20 20.

    Buyer beware.

    VilleBill, Dec 6, 2007
  15. mm


    If you don't have the understanding, then you shouldn't speak as if you do,
    to make a sale. You are defending the indefensible.

    A good salesman goes for the win/win. Any other sale is a bad one and a
    good share of those will come to haunt you. This particular matter was a
    win/lose and I doubt the OP will return for future business...
    DBLEXPOSURE, Dec 6, 2007
  16. mm

    VilleBill Guest

    If you don't have the understanding, then >you shouldn't speak as if
    you do, to >make a sale.

    Balderdash. One speaks to ones level of understanding. How elce to
    speak? It would be a damned silent world else.

    My point is that to assume the worst of a person because they are
    mistaken on one particular is not the wise move.
    Piffle. I'm simply offering an alternative explanation.

    But hey! If you wish to beleive the worst case is the only answer....go

    a good >share of those will come to haunt you. >This particular matter
    was a win/lose and >I doubt the OP will return for future >business...

    You seem to predicate your arguement on the assumption that the sales
    person was willfully missleading the purchaser to gain a sale. You have
    no way of knowing that.

    Perhaps you should take your own advise about ' if you dont have the
    understanding then you shouldent speak as if you do'

    Do you see your mistake?

    VilleBill, Dec 6, 2007
  17. That is correct.
    But if you are a salesman, you have a duty and responsibility to be honest
    and not mislead your customer.
    That means, if you're not sure about something, you either admit it, or you
    avoid that subject altogether.
    If a salesman isn't familiar with a subject, but starts inventing stuff to
    hide the hole in his knowledge, he is clearly making an effort to mislead
    his customer.
    What part of that are you struggling to understand?
    \(not quite so\) Fat Sam, Dec 8, 2007
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