Battery pack NB-6L

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Higgs Boson, Apr 21, 2012.

  1. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson Guest

    Hola, Amigos y Amigas

    I need your advice on replacing battery pack on my Canon SD 200 IS
    point&shoot.

    Last year camera signaled that it needed a new battery pack, so I
    spent a BUNDLE ordering from Canon. Turned out to last only a short
    time (whereas the original lasted several years). I didn't get around
    to complaining; kept recharging it briefly; now it won't even hold a
    charge and I am royally pissed -- also at myself for not acting
    sooner.

    Question: I went on-line and saw that pack advertised for HALF of
    what Canon charged. Are they safe? Could they harm the camera? I
    assume these are Chinese knockoffs, but is that a no-no?

    TIA

    HB
     
    Higgs Boson, Apr 21, 2012
    #1
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  2. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson Guest

    Sorry - typo- I meant Canon SD 1200 IS. My bad.

    2nd mistake: I ordered from Amazon; supposed to be authentic Canon
    battery. ??
     
    Higgs Boson, Apr 21, 2012
    #2
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  3. Higgs Boson

    John Wiegley Guest

    I used a pair of $5 Chinese knock-offs in my Canon 7D for seven years without
    any problems. For my 5D Mk III, the circuitry in the knock-offs is just not
    proving good enough.

    But I highly doubt you would ever see any actual damage.

    John
     
    John Wiegley, Apr 21, 2012
    #3
  4. Higgs Boson

    John Wiegley Guest

    Oops, meant my 20D, not 7D. It hasn't been around that long. :)

    John
     
    John Wiegley, Apr 21, 2012
    #4
  5. Higgs Boson

    Alan Browne Guest

    If you mean a 3rd party battery for a camera, I would first look into
    the specific brand name and model and search the web for issues.

    I've bought 3rd party batteries for my cameras (K-Minolta/Sony) and I've
    had no issues. They are usually (as you say) 1/3 to 1/2 the OEM battery
    price. In service I've had no issues.

    But: I did look carefully into the brand and checked with other users
    first. (Phottix). I've had no issues with them. I rotate between
    those batteries and the OEM battery that came with the camera.

    (One nit: the OEM battery is rated (label): 11.8 Wh, 7.2 V
    the 3rd party is rated : 1500 mAh, 7.4V

    So it takes a bit of arithmetic to compare them for capacity.

    Phottix: 11.1 Wh.

    So the Phottix holds slightly less energy than the OEM - not enough to
    matter. But the voltage being higher may result in losses in the camera
    depending on how it regulates voltage. I haven't however noticed much
    endurance difference between the two.
     
    Alan Browne, Apr 21, 2012
    #5
  6. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson Guest

    ***Question: Why do you "rotate" between those batteries? Straight
    question. Does the rotation help prolong battery life in each? Or?

    TIA

    HB
     
    Higgs Boson, Apr 21, 2012
    #6
  7. Higgs Boson

    Alan Browne Guest

    Li-ion batteries don't do "sitting around charged" very well, so
    rotation assures each gets regularly discharged and re-charged.

    I need 2 because when in the field I can easily exhaust one battery.
    Having two gets me through the day. Otherwise, at home the exhausted
    battery goes to the charger, and the charged battery into the camera.
    When the exhausted battery is charged it goes into the bag.

    Two cameras with different battery sizes means 1 OEM batt and 1 3rd
    party batt for each camera.

    In the car (when traveling) I carry a DC-AC converter to re-charge
    laptops, GPS and camera batteries. By the time I get to the hotel
    usually 1 battery is charged and the next goes to the room. (Would be
    nice to have a DC-DC charger that could do all of them. Wishful
    thinking).

    I could get a double battery charger for my camera, but can't really
    justify it.
     
    Alan Browne, Apr 21, 2012
    #7
  8. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson Guest

    OMG! Mine has been sitting around in the seldom-used point&shoot for
    long stretches! Thanks for alerting me to this.

    Next question: When camera stops working and says "low battery" I
    take battery out and (attempt) to charge.
    Conventional wisdom <g> is that a battery should be allowed to run all
    the way down before re-charging. But it only says "low". Is this
    Catch 22?

    REALLY appreciate all the help from your good self &others on NG>

    HB
     
    Higgs Boson, Apr 21, 2012
    #8
  9. Higgs Boson

    Alan Browne Guest

    That would be an issue if your batts are Li-ion. If they are Ni-MH then
    it's probably no issue (other than they will self-deplete).
    CW (not to mention manufacturer suggestions) says Li-ion should be
    "stored" at around 50% charge. Check the manual. Bruce Polson recently
    posted that his camera manual suggested storage at completely depleted.

    Li-ion don't need any particular "maintenance" discipline. They can be
    charged when nearly full or half or whatever. The exception there is in
    some devices (iPhone for example) do "like" a complete run down from
    time to time in order to gather data for the power meter function
    (calibration of the meter). As a loose rule I try to discharge my phone
    completely every couple weeks - same with laptops (my SO's and son's).
    Even Ni-MH don't need much attention - I just make sure they get
    completely discharged from time to time.

    They can't be fully discharged (their own circuitry should prevent that)
    but at a certain point they simple cut off to maintain the minimal
    charge required in the battery. (I assume that if they self discharge
    further below that that they reach a point where re-charging will not
    work at all).
     
    Alan Browne, Apr 21, 2012
    #9
  10. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson Guest

    HB
     
    Higgs Boson, Apr 21, 2012
    #10
  11. Higgs Boson

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On Apr 21, 10:40 am, Alan Browne <>
    : wrote:
    : > On 2012-04-21 13:24 , Higgs Boson wrote:
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : >
    : > > On Apr 21, 8:45 am, Alan Browne<>
    : > > wrote:
    : > >> On 2012-04-21 02:22 , Higgs Boson wrote:
    : >
    : > >>> Question:  I went on-line and saw that pack advertised for HALF of
    : > >>> what Canon charged.  Are they safe?  Could they harm the camera?  I
    : > >>> assume these are Chinese knockoffs, but is that a no-no?
    : >
    : > >> If you mean a 3rd party battery for a camera, I would first look into
    : > >> the specific brand name and model and search the web for issues.
    : >
    : > >> I've bought 3rd party batteries for my cameras (K-Minolta/Sony) and I've
    : > >> had no issues.  They are usually (as you say) 1/3 to 1/2 the OEM battery
    : > >> price.  In service I've had no issues.
    : >
    : > >> But: I did look carefully into the brand and checked with other users
    : > >> first.  (Phottix).  I've had no issues with them.  I rotate between
    : > >> those batteries and the OEM battery that came with the camera.
    : >
    : > > ***Question:  Why do you "rotate" between those batteries?  Straight
    : > > question.  Does the rotation help prolong battery life in each?  Or?
    : >
    : > Li-ion batteries don't do "sitting around charged" very well, so
    : > rotation assures each gets regularly discharged and re-charged.
    :
    : OMG! Mine has been sitting around in the seldom-used point&shoot for
    : long stretches! Thanks for alerting me to this.

    YMMV. I find that the batteries for my Canons hold a charge very well when not
    in use. I'm not suggesting that Alan is wrong, just that his experience may be
    no more typical than mine.

    : Next question: When camera stops working and says "low battery" I
    : take battery out and (attempt) to charge.
    : Conventional wisdom <g> is that a battery should be allowed to run all
    : the way down before re-charging. But it only says "low". Is this
    : Catch 22?

    No. Older nickel-cadmium (Nicad) batteries had that problem. More modern
    batteries do not.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Apr 21, 2012
    #11
  12. Higgs Boson

    Robert Coe Guest

    On 2012-04-21 14:33 , Higgs Boson wrote:
    : > On Apr 21, 10:40 am, Alan Browne<>
    :
    : >> Li-ion batteries don't do "sitting around charged" very well, so
    : >> rotation assures each gets regularly discharged and re-charged.
    : >
    : > OMG! Mine has been sitting around in the seldom-used point&shoot for
    : > long stretches! Thanks for alerting me to this.
    :
    : That would be an issue if your batts are Li-ion. If they are Ni-MH then
    : it's probably no issue (other than they will self-deplete).
    :
    : > Next question: When camera stops working and says "low battery" I
    : > take battery out and (attempt) to charge.
    : > Conventional wisdom<g> is that a battery should be allowed to run all
    : > the way down before re-charging. But it only says "low". Is this
    : > Catch 22?
    : >
    : > REALLY appreciate all the help from your good self&others on NG>
    :
    : CW (not to mention manufacturer suggestions) says Li-ion should be
    : "stored" at around 50% charge. Check the manual. Bruce Polson recently
    : posted that his camera manual suggested storage at completely depleted.
    :
    : Li-ion don't need any particular "maintenance" discipline. They can be
    : charged when nearly full or half or whatever. The exception there is in
    : some devices (iPhone for example) do "like" a complete run down from
    : time to time in order to gather data for the power meter function
    : (calibration of the meter). As a loose rule I try to discharge my phone
    : completely every couple weeks - same with laptops (my SO's and son's).
    : Even Ni-MH don't need much attention - I just make sure they get
    : completely discharged from time to time.
    :
    : They can't be fully discharged (their own circuitry should prevent that)
    : but at a certain point they simple cut off to maintain the minimal
    : charge required in the battery. (I assume that if they self discharge
    : further below that that they reach a point where re-charging will not
    : work at all).

    A further factoid that's totally OT, but interesting in this context: I've
    seen laptop batteries that refused to function and had to be discarded after a
    pre-programmed number of charging cycles (300, IIRC). This was around the time
    that Sony was having the problem with its batteries starting fires, and
    apparently the limit was intended to keep the battery from deteriorating to
    the point of a serious malfunction. Whether the fear was justified or just a
    knee-jerk overreaction, I have no idea.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Apr 22, 2012
    #12
  13. Higgs Boson

    Pete A Guest

    I've done a fair bit of research in an attempt to debunk the plethora
    of myths surrounding Lithium-ion batteries. Here's a quick summary of
    my findings:

    1. Li-ion (like Ni-MH) does not suffer from "memory" effects. Regular
    deep discharges are not only unnecessary, doing so will definitely
    shorten its service life.

    2. Shortest life occurs when it is kept mainly at either maximum or
    minimum charge. Longest life occurs when maintained between approx.
    40-60% of charge.

    3. The battery electronics has two functions: to balance the charging
    as needed by the individual cells and to put the battery into "sleep
    mode" if a cell becomes drained to a level that would inflict severe
    damage.

    4. Storing a battery at or near minimum charge runs the risk of it
    self-discharging further into "sleep mode". In this mode it will not
    charge from the supplied charger - the battery must be sent to a
    specialist repairer.

    5. The facility to calibrate a Li-ion battery is either built-in to the
    battery electronics or it isn't. In most batteries it isn't built-in
    therefore the device using it cannot calibrate itself to the battery
    without actually draining it into "sleep mode"!

    6. Batteries that are capable of being calibrated have a supplied
    charger that either does it automatically or it informs the user when
    the lengthy procedure is required and has a button to perform the task.

    7. My mobile phone shop insisted that my new phone should have an
    initial charge of at least 16 hours "to condition the battery via a
    trickle charge" and it should be regularly discharged "to calibrate the
    battery indicator". Both statements are false: consumer Li-ions do not
    require conditioning and the charging circuit does not and cannot
    "trickle charge"; regular deep discharges are recommended by vendors in
    order to sell more replacement batteries.

    Hope that was useful.
     
    Pete A, Apr 22, 2012
    #13
  14. Higgs Boson

    philo Guest


    I see that battery depot has that battery for about $13 or so.

    FWIW: I bought a battery from them for a laptop and it was fine.

    More than likely when you buy a Canon battery you are paying for the name
     
    philo, Apr 22, 2012
    #14
  15. Higgs Boson

    otter Guest

    There is a

    Amazon and Ebay are flooded with fake Canon batteries that actually say "Canon" on them, but are not genuine. For example, see this review:

    http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Lithium...dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

    That's not to say there aren't generic batteries that work as well as the originals. There could be. But I've seen complaints, too.
     
    otter, Apr 23, 2012
    #15
  16. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson Guest

    Thou hast said it!

    By coincidence, I just ordered a battery from the place you
    mentioned. It was $15.95. I hope it's better than that POS I bought
    from Amazon last year,
    which had the Canon name, but... ???

    HB
     
    Higgs Boson, Apr 23, 2012
    #16
  17. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson Guest

    Maybe that's what I got. I am going to send it back to Amazon and
    request refund. Incidentally, I also ordered from Battery Depot (see
    preceeding message) a card reader to replace the cheap POS also
    purchased from Amazon and which stopped working after a few days.
    Amazon was prompt about refunding that, so maybe they'll be just as
    cooperative about the battery.

    All that hullaballo has taken up a day when I was planning to do other
    things,some involving uploading pix from camera and sending them to a
    waiting client.
    Couldn't find a local source to just go & pick up what needed. Oh,
    well...this, too, shall pass.

    Thanks for all the help and detailed info.

    HN
     
    Higgs Boson, Apr 24, 2012
    #17
  18. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson Guest

    Indeed! No doubt others on the NG also appreciate that mini-seminar
    that dispels a lot of myths.

    Thanks!

    HB
     
    Higgs Boson, Apr 24, 2012
    #18
  19. Higgs Boson

    philo Guest



    Although I am sure not all manufacturers have the same standards...
    there is also the factor of quality control and just plain luck.


    A few years ago my cell phone broke and I got a new replacement.
    I noticed the battery life was considerably worse.
    Since I still had the battery from my old phone I used it and got the
    good life I expected. Both batteries were made by the same company and
    have the same model number.
     
    philo, Apr 24, 2012
    #19
  20. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson Guest

    You are right to point out those two factors. But when it's MY $$$
    and MY frustration, I need to (and should have) taken prompt action to
    return to source rather than keep on trying to charge defective item.
    No more Mr/Ms Nice Guy!
     
    Higgs Boson, Apr 24, 2012
    #20
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