Battery question - canon 1D mkIV

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by eatmorepies, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. eatmorepies

    eatmorepies Guest

    So.

    Having bought the 1D mkIV I'm looking at a second battery. Canon original
    £125. After market battery £24. How dull is it to buy an after market
    battery for this camera?

    John
     
    eatmorepies, Aug 13, 2010
    #1
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  2. Hahnel has been a reliable brand for me, and also purchases from
    7dayshop.com. £24 still sounds expensive to me - but I'm usually buying
    for Nikon non-PRO cameras.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Aug 14, 2010
    #2
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  3. eatmorepies

    Robert Coe Guest

    : > So.
    : >
    : > Having bought the 1D mkIV I'm looking at a second battery. Canon
    : > original £125. After market battery £24. How dull is it to buy an after
    : > market battery for this camera?
    : >
    : > John
    :
    : Hahnel has been a reliable brand for me, and also purchases from
    : 7dayshop.com. £24 still sounds expensive to me - but I'm usually buying
    : for Nikon non-PRO cameras.

    The problem is that Canon batteries have been getting smarter. For example, I
    believe the 7D can be told to keep track of all its batteries, tell you when
    to charge them and which one to use next, etc. All Canon has to do to make
    that functionality unreproducible by a 3rd-party vendor is encrypt the
    information provided by the battery. So if the feature matters to you, you may
    be stuck.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Aug 14, 2010
    #3
  4. The problem is that Canon batteries have been getting smarter. For
    Thanks, Bob. Makes for another factor to consider when folk are choosing
    between systems.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Aug 14, 2010
    #4
  5. eatmorepies

    Henry Olson Guest

    No doubt, just like laptop batteries that don't die at the end of their
    life, but instead are flagged to be unusable after a predefined number of
    recharge-cycle starts, they'll do the same thing in cameras. Like
    ink-cartridges that aren't empty yet, they'll tell you to buy another
    battery whether the one you are using is still functional or not. And you
    will, because you must have the latest and greatest camera to make you into
    a better photographer. Right? While the manufacturers' CEOs laugh again all
    the way to their banks. It won't be enough to gouge you with required
    glass-update prices (who puts up with a "kit lens"?), they'll "unlock the
    value of cameras" even further with required on-demand battery updates.
    It's their bottom-line that matters after all. Not yours.

    They can't make money off of those no-shelf-life memory cards, so they'll
    have to find any other way possible on required accessories. You'll all
    happily and gleefully march their goose-step with smiles on your faces.
    With trolls like SMS leading the charge (pun intentional), telling you why
    the 300% to 600%-markup priced OEM batteries are so much better anyway.

    Another case-in-point: external power-supplies. I *could* have bought the
    dedicated OEM ones for all my cameras. Those power-supplies the size of a
    brick and weighing just as much, for .... oh ... about $60 to $120 each.
    But instead I found a compact universal power-supply for $18 instead, with
    all the needed selectable voltages and adapter plugs, with available
    amperage output even better than the OEM power-supplies. All in a size
    smaller than a pack of cigarettes and almost the same weight. Too bad they
    didn't make the plug even more unique on the camera, or make it talk to the
    power-supply to recognize OEM power-supplies only. I'm sure that's next on
    their bean-counters' "to do" lists.

    There's been no real innovations in cameras for many years now. The only
    innovations they have left is how to further turn your money into theirs.
    They like to call it "unlocking the value" of any product-line today. It
    sounds so good to their easily manipulated stock-holders, for their
    benefit, not yours.

    (In case you don't already know: Keep your laptop battery out of the laptop
    if working near mains power, whenever possible. This extends its life
    greatly. Each time you plug in a laptop to use it, the battery (if
    installed) is flagged for having used one more or its predefined recharge
    cycles, one less of its allotted life-span.)
     
    Henry Olson, Aug 14, 2010
    #5
  6. eatmorepies

    Henry Olson Guest

    No doubt, just like laptop batteries that don't die at the end of their
    life, but instead are flagged to be unusable after a predefined number of
    recharge-cycle starts, they'll do the same thing in cameras. Like
    ink-cartridges that aren't empty yet, they'll tell you to buy another
    battery whether the one you are using is still functional or not. And you
    will, because you must have the latest and greatest camera to make you into
    a better photographer. Right? While the manufacturers' CEOs laugh again all
    the way to their banks. It won't be enough to gouge you with required
    glass-update prices (who puts up with a "kit lens"?), they'll "unlock the
    value of cameras" even further with required on-demand battery updates.
    It's their bottom-line that matters after all. Not yours.

    They can't make money off of those no-shelf-life memory cards, so they'll
    have to find any other way possible on required accessories. You'll all
    happily and gleefully march their goose-step with smiles on your faces.
    With trolls like SMS leading the charge (pun intentional), telling you why
    the 300% to 600%-markup priced OEM batteries are so much better anyway.

    Another case-in-point: external power-supplies. I *could* have bought the
    dedicated OEM ones for all my cameras. Those power-supplies the size of a
    brick and weighing just as much, for .... oh ... about $60 to $120 each.
    But instead I found a compact universal power-supply for $18 instead, with
    all the needed selectable voltages and adapter plugs, with available
    amperage output even better than the OEM power-supplies. All in a size
    smaller than a pack of cigarettes and almost the same weight. Too bad they
    didn't make the plug even more unique on the camera, or make it talk to the
    power-supply to recognize OEM power-supplies only. I'm sure that's next on
    their bean-counters' "to do" lists.

    There's been no real innovations in cameras for many years now. The only
    innovations they have left is how to further turn your money into theirs.
    They like to call it "unlocking the value" of any product-line today. It
    sounds so good to their easily manipulated stock-holders, for their
    benefit, not yours.

    (In case you don't already know: Keep your laptop battery out of the laptop
    if working near mains power, whenever possible. This extends its life
    greatly. Each time you plug in a laptop to use it, the battery (if
    installed) is flagged for having used one more of its predefined recharge
    cycles, one less of its allotted life-span.)
     
    Henry Olson, Aug 14, 2010
    #6
  7. eatmorepies

    Robert Coe Guest

    :
    : >On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 08:25:12 +0100, "David J Taylor"
    : >: : >: > So.
    : >: >
    : >: > Having bought the 1D mkIV I'm looking at a second battery. Canon
    : >: > original £125. After market battery £24. How dull is it to buy an after
    : >: > market battery for this camera?
    : >: >
    : >: > John
    : >:
    : >: Hahnel has been a reliable brand for me, and also purchases from
    : >: 7dayshop.com. £24 still sounds expensive to me - but I'm usually buying
    : >: for Nikon non-PRO cameras.
    : >
    : >The problem is that Canon batteries have been getting smarter. For example, I
    : >believe the 7D can be told to keep track of all its batteries, tell you when
    : >to charge them and which one to use next, etc. All Canon has to do to make
    : >that functionality unreproducible by a 3rd-party vendor is encrypt the
    : >information provided by the battery. So if the feature matters to you, you may
    : >be stuck.
    : >
    : >Bob
    :
    : No doubt, just like laptop batteries that don't die at the end of their
    : life, but instead are flagged to be unusable after a predefined number of
    : recharge-cycle starts, they'll do the same thing in cameras. Like
    : ink-cartridges that aren't empty yet, they'll tell you to buy another
    : battery whether the one you are using is still functional or not. And you
    : will, because you must have the latest and greatest camera to make you into
    : a better photographer. Right? While the manufacturers' CEOs laugh again all
    : the way to their banks. It won't be enough to gouge you with required
    : glass-update prices (who puts up with a "kit lens"?), they'll "unlock the
    : value of cameras" even further with required on-demand battery updates.
    : It's their bottom-line that matters after all. Not yours.

    It's related to "value engineering", the process whereby they "engineer" the
    value out of a product, using cheaper and cheaper components to accomplish
    every task. The object is to build a product that will fail completely on the
    day after its warranty expires. This in turn is related to "total quality
    management", which demands that engineers design the cheapest, crappiest
    product that can be made to satisfy all of the customer's non-negotiable
    demands.

    : They can't make money off of those no-shelf-life memory cards, so they'll
    : have to find any other way possible on required accessories. You'll all
    : happily and gleefully march their goose-step with smiles on your faces.
    : With trolls like SMS leading the charge (pun intentional), telling you why
    : the 300% to 600%-markup priced OEM batteries are so much better anyway.
    :
    : Another case-in-point: external power-supplies. I *could* have bought the
    : dedicated OEM ones for all my cameras. Those power-supplies the size of a
    : brick and weighing just as much, for .... oh ... about $60 to $120 each.
    : But instead I found a compact universal power-supply for $18 instead, with
    : all the needed selectable voltages and adapter plugs, with available
    : amperage output even better than the OEM power-supplies. All in a size
    : smaller than a pack of cigarettes and almost the same weight. Too bad they
    : didn't make the plug even more unique on the camera, or make it talk to the
    : power-supply to recognize OEM power-supplies only. I'm sure that's next on
    : their bean-counters' "to do" lists.

    Cell phones already do exactly that. My son-in-law found me an adapter to
    connect the charger for my Blackberry, which has a digital-camera USB socket,
    to my LG phone, which has the tinier USB socket common to "dumb" cell phones
    these days - the object being to carry one fewer charger on trips. It works,
    but the LG complains that the charging cord "isn't authorized for this phone".

    : There's been no real innovations in cameras for many years now. The only
    : innovations they have left is how to further turn your money into theirs.
    : They like to call it "unlocking the value" of any product-line today. It
    : sounds so good to their easily manipulated stock-holders, for their
    : benefit, not yours.
    :
    : (In case you don't already know: Keep your laptop battery out of the laptop
    : if working near mains power, whenever possible. This extends its life
    : greatly. Each time you plug in a laptop to use it, the battery (if
    : installed) is flagged for having used one more of its predefined recharge
    : cycles, one less of its allotted life-span.)

    Alas, I'm pretty sure that not a word of that last paragraph is true. No
    laptop that I've ever used would work at all without a battery installed; all
    the AC adapter does is keep tha battery charged while you use it. And laptop
    batteries that keep track of when to die do it by counting the number of times
    their charge falls below a threshold level, not the number of times the
    computer is turned on with a charger present.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Aug 15, 2010
    #7
  8. eatmorepies

    Henry Olson Guest

    Whereas no laptop that I've ever used won't fail to function with the
    battery removed and running off of power-adapter only. We'll just have to
    disagree. I got the information direct from a friend of mine who is head of
    tech-support for a computer manufacturing company and runs his own computer
    service-center on the side. (Name of company(s) withheld to prevent the
    guaranteed troll's feeding frenzy of 900+ more useless posts of theirs.)
     
    Henry Olson, Aug 15, 2010
    #8
  9. eatmorepies

    Henry Olson Guest

    In-car GPS units already do this, but not quite so sophisticated as to be
    digitally keyed. A common mini-USB plug, but they alter one of the pins
    with a resistor or something so that other universal cords can't be used
    for charging or powering the device. Without the OEM adapter you can't
    charge your car's GPS unit. No doubt digital-keying will be next.

    Are you listening, you lousy fucking bean-counter demons that are the only
    ones designing our cameras today? You're asleep at the switch! You should
    be fired INSTANTLY for all the obvious revenue you've lost for your
    respective camera company, by not digitally keying adapters and batteries
    to your cameras!

    Photographers don't design new cameras for photographer's purposes today,
    bean-counter accountants design today's cameras for bean-counters'
    purposes. There's been no real camera innovations for about the last 3
    years. So why buy new ones? There's many many excellent cameras on the used
    market, some far better than anything offered today. As long as
    manufacturers are letting their lousy bean-counters design our cameras I
    see no need to upgrade. More often buying a newer camera today is a major
    downgrade.

    Aw darn, those bean-counters are causing a loss of sales. But it looked SO
    good on their "job security only" spreadsheets, didn't it.

    There's much more to a company's longevity than "value engineering". "Value
    engineering" could (and will) be the root cause of a company's demise.
     
    Henry Olson, Aug 15, 2010
    #9
  10. Ah, yes, I pegged you as the pest.
    Actually your claim is untrue for every laptop I ever used.
    Constantly charging the battery without need and subjecting it
    to laptop working temperatures without need isn't beneficial to
    the battery life --- and some batteries keep track of
    incoming and outgoing electrons.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Aug 15, 2010
    #10
  11. Not being an Apple or Microsoft user[1], I still understand why
    people brag about Apple and don't brag about Microsoft. :)

    -Wolfgang

    [1] OK, I admit owning an XP computer without Internet for
    games only.
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Aug 15, 2010
    #11
  12. eatmorepies

    Ron Guest

    You can buy third party batteries for the 7D that have all the functions of
    the Canon battery. They are often referred to as being "chipped". If I
    remember correctly mine cost just under $40 including shipping. Non-chipped
    batteries are less than half that, but can't be recharged in the Canon
    charger and can't communicate with camera. I have been amazed at the number
    of pics I get on a charge and I am using an IS lens. I have only charged
    the non-Canon battery once and according to my camera I have taken 277 pics
    and the battery still has 56% of a full charge. I will probably take 2-3
    recharge cycles to get the battery up to full capacity.

    Ron
     
    Ron, Aug 16, 2010
    #12
  13. The iPhone doesn't let you change exposure, white balance, saturation,
    etc.?
     
    Chris Malcolm, Aug 19, 2010
    #13
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