Best scanning manager program?

Discussion in 'Scanners' started by T. Wise, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. T. Wise

    Father Kodak Guest

    Father Kodak, Sep 16, 2005
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  2. T. Wise

    Father Kodak Guest

    Thanks for taking the time to reply.
    Ah. didn't know that.
    Ah, again. Can you recommend a vendor/model?
    I assume that Nikon has an infrared channel. No?
    Yes. See my earlier reply. I'm with you about double core, only we
    called it "dual CPU" a couple of years ago. Same idea.
    Understood. I expect this to be a "scan a roll an evening" kind of
    project. For a number of months of course.
    Father Kodak, Sep 16, 2005
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  3. T. Wise

    Father Kodak Guest

    I'm not insisting. As I noted a bit earlier, I had assumed that
    Nikon's program was not as good as these third-party programs. I
    would love to be corrected, since that program comes with the Nikon
    No different than doing darkroom work.
    No doubt.
    Agreed. See my earlier comments on this.
    I'm asking because the last time I visited the Silverfast site, I was
    thoroughly confused as to how any of their software would replace or
    complement Photoshop. Probably my newbie-ness showing here.
    Which model scanner? How do you work around the problems?
    No problem. If I can batch-scan, then I have all night, literally, to
    scan the contents of the slide autofeeder, say 50 slides.
    Sounds like a job for PhotoShop.
    Father Kodak, Sep 16, 2005
  4. T. Wise

    Father Kodak Guest

    Yes, I have been using a stackloader for years with my Kodak Carousel.
    Same issues, in principle. That is why I started mounting all my
    slides in PerrotColor glass/metal mounts a number of years ago.

    Loved the results. Supersharp edge to edge. Great, until I noticed
    that the slides were laminating to the inside of the glass. Out went
    that approach, fast!
    Well, I already explained that I have a dual CPU system. Say 2 years
    from now, when LongHorn is out and "stable," and Adobe will have
    released a 64-bit version of PS, then I'll upgrade. Probably with a
    motherboard that supports 2 CPUs, which are double-core themselves.
    With say a max RAM of 32 to 64 GB.
    I am aware of the differences. I didn't realize until now that these
    differences had an impact on scanning.
    I'm not a masochist. That's why I'm asking these questions before I
    start buying a scanner and software.
    Agreed, but I have a lot of photos where getting some specific detail
    right is as important as the overall image at times. Can't always
    tell unless you use a loupe or project the slide.
    As I noted in another post, that is only 2 tape cartridges.
    That's a fast setup.
    Yea, I figured that.
    Agreed. If I have to restart a batch 10% of the time, I'm still
    ahead. I store my slides pretty carefully.
    True about the random access. But the problem with DVDs is that you
    can't do a full system backup, unattended. I have about 30+ GB of
    storage in my home network now. It's a pain in the tuchus to keep
    swapping tapes, which hold about 6.7 GB each. DVDs would mean even
    more swapping. That is why I've started to look into "mid-range"
    business tape backups, used of course. Also SCSI of course.I want to
    do a full network backup, purely unattended.

    So I woudln't be buying the tape drive only for photo backup.
    That goes without saying!
    Which is why I am inclined to use tape. I realize that's not
    mainstream, but that's OK by me.
    True enough.
    Father Kodak, Sep 16, 2005
  5. T. Wise

    nailer Guest

    On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:30:59 -0700, Father Kodak

    *On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:05:36 GMT, nailer <>
    *>excuse me for being lazy, but your story is long, and my time limited.
    *Thanks for taking the time to reply.
    *>1. RAW format applies to digital cameras, scaners work differently.
    *>Save in 16 bit tiff or psd, providing the scanning progie supposts 16
    *>bit scans.
    *Ah. didn't know that.

    real RAW is a direct dump from light sensitive elements (array)
    without processing. usually, but not always in cameras. In scaners
    some progs will let you dump RAW, but it has no advantage over 16bit
    tiff (processed).
    *>2. Considering you have BW silver based films a scaner with diffused
    *>illumination would be a better choice.
    *Ah, again. Can you recommend a vendor/model?

    i like my Nikon, but it has LED based illumination which makes all
    scratches and dirt very visible. Silver based images couldn't be
    ïmroved" by ICE technology, so expect long hours retouching.
    Scanners with diffused light "suppres" dirt/scratches, like printers
    in minilabs. Sometime it is easier to flat-scan a print than a neg in
    good film scanner.
    *>3. Considering all color films - get something with infrared chanel as
    *I assume that Nikon has an infrared channel. No?

    yes, it works well in Nikon scanners on dye based films.
    *>4. try vuescan and any other progz by yourself, do not expect a
    *>meaningful reply, unless there is another person with similar needs.
    *>You must decide (compromise).
    *>5. get the fastest PC with as much RAM you can afford. Double core -
    *>why not? hard disks are cheao these days, RAM too.
    *Yes. See my earlier reply. I'm with you about double core, only we
    *called it "dual CPU" a couple of years ago. Same idea.

    not exactly, you can have a mobo with two sockets for two CPU or one
    socket enabled for dual core single cpu.

    *>and most of all - how many days to retirement? It's gonna to take a
    *>while to scan THAT amount of frames.
    *>from my experience with Nikon LS30 on P4 - 3 hours for one roll.
    *Understood. I expect this to be a "scan a roll an evening" kind of
    *project. For a number of months of course.

    gee, large number. have fun. BTW notall DVD blanks are equal, get
    something reliable, even if it costs more.
    nailer, Sep 16, 2005
  6. T. Wise

    nailer Guest

    *> Taiyo Yuden?
    *Don't know them. We only got the major names here in Australia.
    it is a factory, you should have them in Ozland :-{)
    just translate into a brand name. Hint - google.
    nailer, Sep 16, 2005
  7. T. Wise

    Noons Guest

    nailer apparently said,on my timestamp of 16/09/2005 7:39 PM:
    I wish. Not all of them
    Nope, still never seen it. Maybe it's just starting?
    Not in the major retailers anyway.
    Noons, Sep 16, 2005
    David Blanchard, Sep 16, 2005
  9. Deadly? Not really. Troublesome? Certainly, but fixable if you are
    patient. It's not just the dynamic range but the thickness of the
    emulsion that causes problems. But because NikonScan can increase the
    exposure time through analog gain (and newer/current versions of
    VueScan now do this as well), you can penetrate the emulsion. As also
    noted, there tends to be a blue cast to Kodachrome scans. This, too,
    can be fixed with settings on the analog gain.

    A good solution has already been mentioned by Don using multiple scans
    at different exposures and then combining the results. Easy to say,
    time consuming and often difficult to do. But more than 90% of my
    slides are Kodachrome and I've been able to get quality scans using
    both VueScan and NikonScan and a lot of patience.

    David Blanchard, Sep 16, 2005
  10. T. Wise

    HvdV Guest

    In contrast to what most people think, the higher quality drives like the DLT
    you have are actually quite fast, in the 5-30MB/s range, depending on the
    model. I use an older one in combination with the (free) xfsdump software
    which goes together with the very reliable XFS filesystem. Needs Linux
    though. It allows you to easily select a file or directory from the tape for
    restoring, usually after a 'human error'.

    Good luck with your project, Hans
    HvdV, Sep 16, 2005
  11. An observation. 'Discussion' with Don usually (!) comes down to
    'moulding' his extensive hyperbole back to reasonable proportions
    (very time consuming, given the amount of hyperbole he produces). I've
    long ago given up on wasting my time to 'reason' with his demagoguery
    by black-listing his 'contributions'.

    His "facts" are usually "limited opinion", even his "allways/all" is
    often only valid under (his) specific conditions/assumptions. He
    apparently is incapable of valuating his own limitations, and habits
    He'll probably want to classify this response under 'rabit' Vuescan
    defendors, or something, sadly typical.

    Bart van der Wolf, Sep 17, 2005
  12. T. Wise

    Father Kodak Guest

    I'm definitely saving this message so I can contact you at some future
    point for more detail.

    (see, no good deed goes unpunished.)

    ~~ Kodak ~~
    Father Kodak, Sep 17, 2005
  13. T. Wise

    Father Kodak Guest

    Taiyo Yuden is one of a number of manufacturers who sell OEM to
    "brands" who actually sell the media in retail stores. Here in the
    US, some of the Fuji brand media is TY and some is not. The key: TY
    is Made in Japan, and the other stuff is Made in Taiwan.
    Father Kodak, Sep 17, 2005
  14. T. Wise

    Father Kodak Guest

    Well, I am "only" a home user, but almost all the backup requests from
    my "users" (including myself!) are for files from several days ago.
    E.g. the wife accidentally deleted an important email message but
    didn't notice until a week later. No problemo.

    Or, I keep my financial records backed up. I have had more than one
    major meltdown with Quicken (grrrr!) and the ability to pull a Quicken
    file from say last December or even two years ago is very nice.

    As for not using hard disk backup, for my purposes, I would need to
    buy a fairly large number of hard disks and store most of them offline
    in a "grandfather-father-son" situation. Too much trouble. Tape is
    easier, even though it is slower.

    And I'm planning to upgrade soon to either DLT or VXA, so I'll get
    "enterprise quality."
    Father Kodak, Sep 17, 2005
  15. Well, in this specific case, he added a smiley -- could indicate it was
    intented as an hyperbole.
    Then it also specified that he's "been struggling with it for three
    years now", which also probably indicates that he doesn't consider it as
    "deadly" as he wrote... otherwise he wouldn't have wasted so much of his
    time, I suppose.
    That's sad, though absolutely your right.
    So do all these hates among y'all ultimately come down to VueScan, eh?
    Bah. Wonder why software always makes people unreasonable (and I know, I
    was an Amiga user...).

    To me, Don's been helpful. Kennedy's been helpful. Gordon has been
    helpful. You've been helpful. I don't have killfiles in my immediate
    to-do list...
    But sometimes when reading newsgroups, it looks like one should decide
    about what people he's going to talk (friendly) to and become part of a
    camp (VueScan vs not, AmigaOS4 vs not, pasta vs pizza), in order not to
    be looked upon with suspiction!

    Basically: gimmeallabreak.

    by LjL
    Lorenzo J. Lucchini, Sep 17, 2005
  16. T. Wise

    Noons Guest

    Noons, Sep 17, 2005
  17. T. Wise

    Father Kodak Guest

    I can't tell you either. Verbatim, for example, started out about 30
    years ago now (yikes! I remember those days! ) as a floppy disk
    manufacturer, as did Dysan. I doubt that either of those companies
    makes much profit on floppies these days. I'm not sure that either of
    these _brands_ are still independent companies, or if they do any
    manufacturing themselves. Same for Memorex and probably most everyone
    else you find in a retail store.

    For that sort of arcana, you should look up an FAQ for CD drives, or
    check out some of the CD-R newsgroups. But, like so many other groups,
    they have their "characters also.

    In one of the groups, there is someone who is constantly, and I mean,
    constantly, flaming another person. Says lots more about the poster
    than the postee.
    Father Kodak, Sep 17, 2005
  18. T. Wise

    Roger Guest

    Roger, Sep 18, 2005
  19. T. Wise

    Roger Guest

    For most things there is no real need for either dual processor, or
    dual core although applications written to take advantage of either
    running the scanner and the image processing software would be nice as
    long as the buss, or I/O didn't turn out to be the bottleneck.

    A dual processor system that is making full use of the processors or
    cores could easily end up I/O bound.

    As for RAM, just calculate what you'll have in memory.

    If you are going to have 5 128 Meg images, one gig would be adequate.
    Add in the space for the apps that will be resident and running. I
    like to have twice the memory of all the apps loaded plus the images .

    Although I do have two gig of RAM in this machine which is 64 bit, one
    would normally be more than enough as I'm almost always running in 32
    bit mode. The 64 bit system runs well enough, but there just aren't
    enough drivers or apps that take advantage of it yet.
    Typically the only thing they really affect is the IR cleaning which
    doesn't work well on B & W either.
    OK, hidden tendencies<:)) Scanning near 10,000 slides is one whale
    of a lot of work.
    True, but with DVDs they are incremental so at any one time I rarely
    end up doing more than one DVD. I also do a full back up across the
    network to an external drive in another building.

    Hard Drives are now cheap and set up as USB 2 drives make excellent
    short term back-ups. On top of that they are hot swappable. You can
    use one for the system drive image and should the system drive fail
    you just take the drive out of the USB enclosure, install it in the
    machine and go. You may, or may not have to reactivate windows.
    It'll just quit where ever it jams, you clear the jam and keep going.
    More than likely the scanner and software will have to be restarted,
    but that takes very little time.
    That I can do to the USB drives, or drives on the other computers. The
    nice thing about random access is you can do incremental backups with
    only the files that have been changed or added to the system added to
    your backup.

    Don't forget the new dual layer DVDs with over 8 Gig. Although still
    expensive I'd expect them to follow a price attrition curve much like
    the regular DVDs.


    Again, good luck,

    Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
    (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
    Roger, Sep 18, 2005
  20. T. Wise

    Father Kodak Guest

    But I can't. :(

    I have to figure out something else.
    Father Kodak, Sep 19, 2005
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