Beutler Formula - Solution B conversion

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by Stu, Jul 17, 2003.

  1. Stu

    Stu Guest

    I am having a go at mixing my own developer, just for fun, to start
    with on some non critical negs. Looking at the Beutler Formula, Stock
    solution B calls for Sodium Carbonate at 50g per litre. I have Sodium
    Metaborate. Can I substitute the Metaborate for the Carbonate, and if
    so at what factor? Will there be any disadvantage in doing this if it
    is possible. Also, does anyone out there have a recommended time for
    delta 100 (35 and 120)in the Beutler Formula.

    Thanks very much

    Stu
     
    Stu, Jul 17, 2003
    #1
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  2. Sodium Carbonate should be available at the super market.
    On the left side of the puddle it is called "Washing Soda".
    The stuff is quite pure, though I wouldn't be surprised
    if there is a brand somewhere with some idiot perfume
    added to it.
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Jul 17, 2003
    #2
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  3. Stu

    Jorge Omar Guest

    Beutler's is based in the concept of a very dilluted developing agent
    with strong accelerator to increase edge effects.

    I feel that using metaborate, although you will be able to develop
    decent negatives with it (may need a longer dev time) will not have
    the 'Beutler' look.

    Jorge
     
    Jorge Omar, Jul 17, 2003
    #3
  4. Don't substitute anything. This developer requires Sodium Carbonate.

    Get the right chemicals from Photographers Formulary.
     
    Michael Scarpitti, Jul 17, 2003
    #4
  5. Stu

    Norman Worth Guest

    Sodium metaborate is a weaker alkalai than sodium carbonate. The solution
    pH will be lower using sodium metaborate. They are not interchangeable.

    The Beutler formula depends on high dilution of a highly active developer
    without restrainer to produce high actuance without excessive local
    contrast. The sodium carbonate is part of the high activity. Substitution
    of sodium metaborate would call for some formal experiments to determine the
    effect, development times, and the amount to use. From general principles,
    the contrast would probably be lower, the acutance lower, and the
    development times longer. There may be some tendency to fog.
     
    Norman Worth, Jul 17, 2003
    #5
  6. Stu

    Dan Quinn Guest

    RE: (Stu) wrote
    Good timeing. A couple of days ago I processed a roll (first roll
    through my new, used RB67 Pro S) of Pan F in my first Homebrew
    Beutler. They look good. They may look good on grade 2 paper;
    tonight will tell.
    The roll was given 8 minutes in 500ml with, after start,
    2 inversions each minute. A one liter tank with reel
    keeper was used.
    The formula used is: 1gr metol, 5gr sulfite, 6gr carbonate. Two,
    one ounce amber glass bottles with polycone seal caps were used
    for both the A and B. One of each were used for that first roll.
    With the addition of a little sulfite the Beutler can be
    converted into FX-1! Or the addition can be skipped for an
    extra low sulfite FX-1. That will likely be my next roll's
    soup. With 500ml of FX-1 there is only 1/4gr of metol to
    do the developing.
    The ph of the Beutler was 10.6, higher than expected and way
    above the 7.8 of D23. Stick with carbonate and photo grade. Dan
     
    Dan Quinn, Jul 18, 2003
    #6
  7. Stu

    John Guest

    One could simply increase the amount of development time to compensate for
    the difference in activity. The images developed in metaborate may have finer
    grain and will be sharper as a result.

    John
     
    John, Jul 18, 2003
    #7
  8. Stu

    Dan Quinn Guest

    RE: (Stu) wrote
    the formula calls for the one H2O. Washing soda is the deca hydrate
    rather than the mono. Also I'm not sure it is stable. It may dry
    some leaving an unknown mix of mono and deca. Mono is usually
    stipulated in formulas, I believe, for this reason. Stick
    with photo grade mono. Dan
     
    Dan Quinn, Jul 19, 2003
    #8
  9. You can always make sure it loses water by heating it. It will take quite
    a hugh temperature, so use a pyrex or stainless steel saucepan. It may
    sputter, so put a loose fitting cover ober it.
    You may also use pHPlus from pool supply places in place of anhydrous
    carbonate. divide the amount of monohydrated carbonate by 1.17 to get the
    equivalent amount of anhydrous.
    If you can prove that it makes a difference whether you use monohydrated
    or anhydrous carbonate, please let me know.

    Pat Gainer
     
    Patrick Gainer, Jul 21, 2003
    #9
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