black and white film?

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by max, Sep 10, 2006.

  1. max

    max Guest

    hi, when i went to the store to buy my first safelight, the guy told me
    that i can use this for black and white paper, but film can get ruined
    by it because it is still sensitive to red light. but if i use black
    and white film can i still use the safelight? i'm not very good at
    doing stuff at the dark so i'd like to use the light if at all
    possible.
    thanx
     
    max, Sep 10, 2006
    #1
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  2. No. He was talking about black & white film....It is sensitive to red light,
    because you can take pictures of things with red in them, and they turn out
    OK. You will have to develop your film in absolute darkness, even if it is
    just black & white film. But there are photographic papers that are not
    sensitive to red light, so, once your b & w film is developed and in your
    enlarger, you will be able to use a red light in your darkroom while you are
    exposing your paper in the enlarger without the red light fogging it.
     
    William Graham, Sep 10, 2006
    #2
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  3. max

    Peter Irwin Guest

    Rollfilm is almost always developed in a light-proof tank.
    The only time you need complete darkness is the minute or
    so it takes to open the film canister, load the reel and
    put the reel in the tank and close the tank. The tanks
    can have liquids poured in and out freely without letting
    any light reach the film.

    I would recommend a plastic Paterson tank for a beginner.
    If the reels are bone dry, they are very easy to load
    in the dark. You will still want to practice several times
    with a piece of junk film before attempting to load a film
    that matters in the dark.

    Peter.
     
    Peter Irwin, Sep 10, 2006
    #3
  4. max

    Alan Browne Guest


    While B&W paper does not expose to a red safe light; B&W negative film
    will expose to a safelight (as the "guy" told you).

    You typically develop the B&W negative in a light proof tank (after
    loading it in complete darkness and closing the tank) in normal room
    light. Practice with a "waste" roll of cheap old film in normal light
    until you get the routine down ... it is quite easy.

    If your "dark room" has fluorescent lighting, wait a few minutes after
    turning them off before unspooling the film onto the reel.

    Cheers,
    Alan.
     
    Alan Browne, Sep 10, 2006
    #4
  5. Nope, film is sensitive to all light. I suppose you could
    use night vision goggles, but it is easy to work in the
    dark with a bit of practice. I find I can 'see' better in
    the dark if I close my eyes: it fools my brain into thinking
    I am concentrating on the task at hand rather than that I
    am lost in the dark. Go slowly and pay close attention
    to how things feel, be very deliberate in your motions.
    I have trouble loading film if my hands are damp. I
    keep a towel handy when loading film on warm days.

    If hands, film and reel are all completely dry then loading
    is easy and fast. As Peter says: practice in the light; in
    the light with eyes closed; and then in the dark until
    you get the feel for it.

    Try and load the reel in the light with damp hands just to
    get experience with a jamming reel.

    I have a light tight container at hand when loading film.
    If the film doesn't load smoothly I put it in the container
    and come back later in the day and try again. Once the
    film gets damp/sticky there is no point trying to force it
    on the reel, let it sit for a few hours to dry out.

    The group rec.photo.darkroom is the place to go for more
    help on the subject, though I hazard half the folks on
    rpd are also on rpe35, the other half being on rpelf & rpemf.

    Message is now cross-posted to rpd.
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Sep 10, 2006
    #5
  6. I've mentioned this before, but it never hurts to say it again. For those
    people who have trouble loading reels, someone invented the "apron" tank.

    An apron is a piece of plastic the same size as a 35mm roll of film,
    with bumps on the top and bottom. You just remove the film from the
    cartridge, wrap the film and apron together and put them in a tank. In a
    previous post, I pointed to a picture of one from the 1950's, and later
    someone pointed out that Freestyle still sells them.

    Obivoulsy it has to be done in the compelete darkness, such as a changing
    bag.

    For those that can not work in a changing bag, or do not have enough
    ability to use both hands to work an apron, Kodak made a day light
    loading developing tank, where you thread the film onto the reel in
    daylight, and turn a large knob. They still are available on auction
    sites.

    I find that I have much less trouble loading a reel if I keep my eyes closed.

    If you can not work in a changing bag, but can't locate a daylight
    loading tank, you can always use a windowless room or closet. It works
    best at night with all nearby lights turned off and the door sealed with
    a towel. Works best with low speed film.

    If it really is a problem, don't bother. Just buy a chromogenic film,
    such as Ilford XP-2 or one of the Kodak products (if they still make it
    the one without the orange mask) and have it developed, but not printed
    by your local one hour lab.

    Developing prints in a tray, is IMHO far more fun than developing film
    in a tank. YMMV.

    Geoff.
     
    Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Sep 10, 2006
    #6
  7. max

    j Guest

    Sometimes when loading reels, I "see" what I'm doing, quite literally. The
    brain seems to create an image in my mind even when there's no light.
    Unfortunately, it's not accurate. :)

    Then, as you mention, I close my eyes and no longer "see" my hands, the film
    and reel.

    Strange?
     
    j, Sep 10, 2006
    #7
  8. max

    Greg \_\ Guest

    Sometimes when loading reels, I "see" what I'm doing, quite literally. The
    At some point in time, someone flipped your switch and had the current
    incorrectly dialed in.
    Those beady little bug eyes, that bulge from their sockets?
    You certainly are "always".
     
    Greg \_\, Sep 10, 2006
    #8
  9. max

    j Guest

    It's a little early in the day to be drinking, Greg.
     
    j, Sep 10, 2006
    #9
  10. max

    Greg \_\ Guest

    It's a little early in the day to be drinking, Greg.[/QUOTE]

    So why are you?
     
    Greg \_\, Sep 10, 2006
    #10
  11. Yeah....I was just going to say.....Don't try that while driving in the
    mountains......
     
    William Graham, Sep 10, 2006
    #11
  12. max

    AAvK Guest


    As I have recently learned from the kind help give in this news group,
    Orthochromatic B/W film is NOT sensitive to dim red light. Maybe
    a red 15-20 watt bulb would be best. This kind of film is available
    online if not in your local stores.
     
    AAvK, Sep 11, 2006
    #12
  13. max

    Peter Irwin Guest

    For fast ortho films of the Verichrome type (Maco PO 100, and
    Ilford Ortho sheet films are the only modern ones I know of)
    you want a Kodak Wratten #2 safelight filter or an Ilford
    906 filter. The #1A filter is for ortho-litho films of the
    Kodalith type and is not safe for the fast pictoral ortho films.
    You might get away with a #1A filter for a brief time, but
    if you plan to develop ortho films by inspection, the #2 filter
    is a much better idea.

    I have used a mini maglight with a #25 red Wratten gel over the lens
    aimed at the wall for ortho film. The amount of light is just
    enough to see by when my eyes are dark-adjusted and it appears
    to be safe enough.

    Most of the time, pictoral ortho rollfilm such as Maco PO-100
    is loaded in the dark the same as panchro film. Just because
    you can use a safelight doesn't mean that you have to use one.

    Peter.
     
    Peter Irwin, Sep 11, 2006
    #13
  14. I see no purpose at all in using any light to develop film.....Especially 35
    mm film. Exactly what do you need to see? You put it on a reel in a can, and
    then pour in the chemicals one at a time for the prescribed time. Even if
    you could do it all in daylight, what would be the advantage?
     
    William Graham, Sep 11, 2006
    #14
  15. max

    Ken Hart Guest

    Back in college, I had the unique pleasure of trying to explain to a deaf
    classmate how to load a film reel. I would hand-sign the words, and he would
    feel my hands to "see" what I was saying. That was possibly the most
    difficult roll of film I ever loaded!

    Ken Hart
     
    Ken Hart, Sep 11, 2006
    #15
  16. max

    Peter Irwin Guest

    It is fun and interesting To see a film develop. Film in
    developer has the image come up rather more slowly than
    it does on paper and because the film doesn't have a
    white support, the milky colour of unfixed film is
    much more evident on film than with paper.

    It is something worth doing once or twice for the experience.
    As I said, most of the time ortho film is handled and developed
    in darkness just like panchro film.

    Peter.
     
    Peter Irwin, Sep 11, 2006
    #16
  17. I've just had a root canal done, so the Dr. was new to me. His setup was
    slick. They took digital x-rays of the tooth before, during and after
    the procedure. It was displayed on the monitor beside the chair inside
    of a minute.
     
    John McWilliams, Sep 11, 2006
    #17
  18. Yes. I can see how that might be interesting to watch....but with my rather
    poor vision, I wouldn't be able to see images that small anyway....I can't
    even view my slides on a light table....I have to use a viewer, and a rather
    bright light, or the outdoor sky as a backdrop. My father used to do large
    format film developing in a black plastic/hard rubber tank. I don't remember
    the details, but as I remember he did most of the work in absolute
    darkness....The film was in stainless steel hangers that hung on the side of
    the tanks like file folders in a filing cabinet.....He didn't look at them
    until they had been in a fixer or stop bath for several minutes.....
     
    William Graham, Sep 11, 2006
    #18
  19. Yes. I am amazed at how fast my dentist can get the results of an x-ray. I
    have had him take another one in the middle of some difficult procedure, and
    check his progress before continuing!
     
    William Graham, Sep 11, 2006
    #19
  20. max

    me Guest

    Warm hands are a problem if you sweat a lot (hyperhydrosis)
    Consider something like alum solution (sold in pool stores
    as aluminium sulfate?) which is the basis of under-arm
    deodourant. A weak solution - rinse your hands and dry.
    It stops the sweat glands from working for a while.

    Then after a few minutes try and load again - it might work
    for you.

    Murray
     
    me, Sep 21, 2006
    #20
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