C-22 Process

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by observador1970, Jul 16, 2007.

  1. I gained 30 rolls of Kodakolor X negative film, and use some rolls in
    my Rolleiflex, but this film are developed in the C-22 process, and i
    have no idea how to develop.
    Somebody knows some alternative developing process for this film?

    Thanks
     
    observador1970, Jul 16, 2007
    #1
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  2. I'm going to hope/assume this 30-year-old film has been frozen or
    refrigerated, and that you're not planning on shooting any more of it.

    While it probably possible to do some sort of B&W development at home,
    you're far better off with one of the few remaining labs that can do
    C-22. For example, try:

    http://www.rockymountainfilm.com/c22.htm
     
    Scott Schuckert, Jul 16, 2007
    #2
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  3. observador1970

    Ken Hart Guest

    Film Rescue International www.filmrescue.com processes old films.
     
    Ken Hart, Jul 17, 2007
    #3


  4. Tanks for the help

    but I intend to develop the negative in my darkroom.
    I already elaborate an alternative process for the ECN-2 (cinema),
    and I go to try using fenidone developers (D-76) and Metol (ID-11)
    If i have no sucess in none of these processes, I go to try to use
    LOOR developer from Kodak, being varied the temperatures and times

    So.....

    Lets have some fun in the darkroom
     
    observador1970, Jul 17, 2007
    #4
  5. Good luck to you.

    I can't help but be curious; what is the purpose of this
    experimentation? It can't be good pictures, as you have no chance of
    that; it can't be to develop a useful darkroom technique, as there
    won't be anymore Kodacolor X.
     
    Scott Schuckert, Jul 17, 2007
    #5
  6. In the late 1990s, I think I published the formulae and process in this
    newsgroup. I just now tried to retrieve it, but Google said that the archive is
    temporarily not available.

    If you cannot retrieve it from the archives, send me an email and I will scan
    the page from the British Journal of Photography, whence I got it, and email you
    the formulae and process.


    Francis A. Miniter
     
    Francis A. Miniter, Jul 17, 2007
    #6
  7. Scott

    The purpouse is only experimental.
    I have no idea on what waiting of the developing.
    My hobby is to buy lots of old films to "make myself" dead processes,
    like C-22 and ECN-2

    Tanks
     
    observador1970, Jul 18, 2007
    #7
  8. Hi Francis

    If you have the formulae, i will try to make it at home.
    Maybe the old reagents have some difficult to find, but i can study
    and make some adaptations.

    I´ll look at the archives.

    Tanks a lot
     
    observador1970, Jul 18, 2007
    #8
  9. Hi Francis

    If you have the formulae, i will try to make it at home.
    Maybe the old reagents have some difficult to find, but i
    can study
    and make some adaptations.

    I´ll look at the archives.

    Tanks a lot


    A citation I found for substitute formulas is The 1965
    BJP Annual pages 263-264. Some of the reagents, in
    particular the color developing agents, may not be available
    now. The British Journal Almanack is not too difficult to
    find, larger library systems will have it. I did not search
    for on-line editions but try the new Google books search.
    BTW, D-76 is _not_ a Phenidone developer, its Metol and
    Hydroquinone.
    In general, its possible to process older color films to
    B&W silver negatives. They will have a "stain" because the
    remaining color couplers are themselves colored, a way of
    producing an automatic color correction mask. The dye can be
    bleached out but once you do that the negatives can never be
    redeveloped for color.
    B&W development can be done in any standard B&W developer
    but you will have to experiment to find the best times.
     
    Richard Knoppow, Jul 18, 2007
    #9

  10. FORMULAE

    Developer (final pH 10.5 to 10.6)
    Benzyl Alcohol 8.5 ml
    Sodium Metaborate (Kodalk) 35.0 g
    Trisodium Phosphate, crystalline 25.0 g
    Sodium Sulfite, anhydrous 2.5 g
    Potassium Bromide 1.5 g
    Potassium Iodide 0.006 g
    CD3 7.8 g
    Water to make 1000 ml.

    CD3 is available from Artcraft Chemicals, among other places.

    Stop Bath (final pH of 4.3 to 4.7)
    Glacial Acetic Acid 20.0 ml
    Sodium Sulfite, anhydrous 10.0 g
    Water to make 1000 ml

    Hardener (final pH of 10.4 to 10.8)
    Formalin (35-40% solution) 20.0 ml
    Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous 10.0 g
    Water to make 1000 ml.

    Note: Formalin is hard to dissolve and requires extended heating to get even an
    18% solution. Purchase of formaldehyde solution and recomputation of required
    amount is recommended.

    Bleach (pH 6.6 to 7.0) NOTE: E3/E4 Bleach may be substituted and acts faster
    Potassium Nitrate, crystalline 25.0 g
    Potassium Ferricyanide 20.0 g
    Potassium Bromide 8.0 g
    Boric Acid 5.0 g
    Borax, crystalline 1.0 g
    Water to make 1000 ml

    Fixer (pH 4.4 to 4.6)
    Ammonium Thiosulfate, crystalline 120 g
    Potassium Metabisulfite 20 g
    Water to make 1000 ml


    Keeping Time:
    Developer with CD3 two weeks
    Developer w/o CD3 6 months

    PROCESS

    Color Developer 14 min. @ 75.0 F +/- 0.5 degrees
    (optional 20 sec. rinse on way to stop bath)
    Stop Bath 4 min @ 68 - 75 F
    Hardener 4 min @ 68 - 75 F
    Normal Lighting may be resumed.
    Wash 4 min @ 68 - 75 F
    Fixer 8 min @ 68 - 75 F
    Final Wash 8 min @ 68 - 75 F

    Working Capacities

    Developer, Stop Bath 300 sq. in. per liter
    Hardener, Bleach, Fixer 600 sq. in. per liter

    Agitate first 15 seconds then 5 seconds per minute
    Contrast is varied by raising or lowering KBr in developer.
    If developed separately and sequentially, subsequent roll should get additional
    30 seconds each.


    Francis A. Miniter
     
    Francis A. Miniter, Jul 20, 2007
    #10
  11. Thanks Richard

    I´ll try to develop using B&W chemicals in this weekend. I post here
    the results.
    Its an experience, and these informations maybe useful for someone

    About D-76.
    In Brasil, we only receive de Kodak D-76 in bags for 3.6 liters, and
    the formulation uses Phenidone (in portuguese FENIDONA (1-Fenil-3-
    Pirazolidona) ) and Hidroquinone
    Metol are proibited in Brasil.
     
    observador1970, Jul 20, 2007
    #11
  12. Hi Francis

    Thanks a lot.

    I will try to formulate this developer.

    The CD3 agent i´ll try to buy online and find a way to send to Brasil.

    Thanks again
     
    observador1970, Jul 20, 2007
    #12
  13. Thanks Richard

    I´ll try to develop using B&W chemicals in this weekend. I
    post here
    the results.
    Its an experience, and these informations maybe useful for
    someone

    About D-76.
    In Brasil, we only receive de Kodak D-76 in bags for 3.6
    liters, and
    the formulation uses Phenidone (in portuguese FENIDONA
    (1-Fenil-3-
    Pirazolidona) ) and Hidroquinone
    Metol are proibited in Brasil.

    Very interesting. The change would make Brazilian D-76
    similar to Ilford Microphen. I will see if I can find the
    Brazilian MSDS somewhere.
     
    Richard Knoppow, Jul 21, 2007
    #13
  14. observador1970

    Rod Smith Guest

    Although C-22 can reasonably be described as a "dead" process, it being
    30+ years since it was replaced by C-41, ECN-2 is current. It's still used
    by modern motion picture films. If you're interested in experimenting with
    it, check this APUG post:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum216/37994-process-ecn-2-pictorial-use.html

    That post includes a set of formulas for ECN-2 chemistry along with
    directions for use. You could conceivably find some good deals on "short
    ends" -- unused bits of motion picture films that are too short to be of
    interest to movie studios but long enough to be cut into rolls for use in
    35mm still cameras. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, several outfits in the US
    bought up such film and resold it to still photographers, but AFAIK they
    all switched to C-41 films in the early 1990s. My own experience is that
    C-41 films are superior for still photography, presumably because of the
    contrast issues mentioned in the discussions area of the link I presented.
    Still, if you want to experiment with unusual processes, this one might be
    worth trying. You'll also be able to find in-date ECN-2 film -- a claim
    that can't be made for C-22 film any more!
     
    Rod Smith, Jul 25, 2007
    #14
  15. You're talking about such outfits as Seattle Filmworks, correct? I
    always wondered what they were selling.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Jul 25, 2007
    #15
  16. It started out as short ends of movie film. They used it because it
    was cheap. It could only be processed by them because it had a
    extra layer (I think it was an antireflection coating) that turned
    normal developers into a black sludge.

    The companies that normally processed it were not set up for short
    (35mm still camera) rolls, and so if you bought it, you had to
    send it back.

    On a historic note, at the time (early 1970's) they started, Dale Labs,
    which was the vendor I prefered, was one of the first to use a system that
    measured the exposure and color balance of the first 4 exposures
    on a roll and averaged the results.

    In modern terms where a minilab does lowres digitzing and complex
    analysis of each negative before printing it does not seem like much.

    At the time it was a huge step forward from no measurment at all, or
    measuring the first frame which was often the inside of a camera case,
    or someone's shoes. :)

    I assume that they went to C-41 film because the cost of the film became
    such a small part of their total package that buying short ends and
    running special equipment was no longer worth it.

    Geoff.
     
    Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jul 25, 2007
    #16
  17. observador1970

    UC Guest



    The film is at least 30 years old. Throw it away.
     
    UC, Jul 25, 2007
    #17
  18. The film is at least 30 years old. Throw it away.[/QUOTE]

    This respondent's knowledge of film and photography are at least 35
    years old; ignore what he says.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Jul 25, 2007
    #18
  19. observador1970

    Rod Smith Guest

    Yes, Seattle FilmWorks (now known as PhotoWorks), Dale Labs, Signature
    Color, and at least one or two others all did this. Most of them were
    pretty up-front about what sort of film they were using. To the best of my
    knowledge, none of them deliver ECN-2 film any more.
     
    Rod Smith, Jul 26, 2007
    #19

  20. I have successfully developed 30+ yr old C-22 film that was stored in a hot
    attic for at least 20 of those years. And Film Rescue uses more refined
    techniques than I did.


    Francis A. Miniter
     
    Francis A. Miniter, Jul 26, 2007
    #20
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